Is The Weight Tanks Hold in M+ Good Design?

[Thelyron]

Nothing about m+ is good game design.

[Matthias]

You're massively overstating the tank's duties. As someone else posted, the tank is responsible for pacing, and not dying, that's about it. Tanks tend to supply routes but in an organised group it will be a collective decision.

The DPS as a unit are the most important factor to the outcome of a run, by far. The difference between a +20 group and a +15 group primarily will be the DPS. You can take exactly the same tank pathing, exactly the same healer, and clear a massively higher key just becuase the DPS are 30% better. Those kinds of performance deltas don't realistically exist for tanks or healers. You could put Echo's tank in a +15 team and it wouldn't have remotely the same impact. Not only that, but the better the DPS is, the worse tank and healer you can get away with bringing (as evidenced by twitch viewers subbing in for +20 healing roles). The same isn't true in reverse.

Just posting this to counter yet another neckbeard tank circle jerk on here.

I get what you're saying, it's super impressive when you're fully pugging and the DPS just tend to click playing off of each other covering anything that needs doing. I must say my favorite part about Mythic+ this Season/Expansions is that a DPS's utility seems to shine far more then it did in previous tiers.

But as you said they function more as a unit. You have three DPS, one screwing up isn't as catastrophic as the Tank. Think in raids, one DPS dying isn't an issue, healer dies 3-4 others can cover. Tank dies you need to brez, this is likely why 80% of raid boss encounters are just mundane taunt swaps.

Regardless going through this thread it's clear that my problem more so is the Prideful affix then it is tanking overall. Again if I'm doing a dungeon where I haven't had to change my route since I started 10s and doesn't change based on affixes such as Theater of Pain I'm fine. Wheras I need to worry about fumbling on what's supposed to be an easier dungeon like Halls of Atonement since the route changs based on Tyrannical/Pride.

Once again I've never had to do so much homework playing other roles.

[melodramocracy]

Yeah, the seasonal affixes should be on +2, that way everyone doing m+ experiences them, and you don't get yet another learning curve at +10.

That's a great way to make even more people not bother with M+.

[Bulzer]

I voted yes, not because of the design but because of the community and the way pugs usually always blame the tanks for not doing their job.

Gonna be repeating what others have been saying, sorry about that, but here's my view.

Everyone in the group is responsible for mobs being killed quickly and interrupted and cc'd correctly, yet in the average pug it is way easier to either blame the tank or healer. Only solution is to avoid playing with those types of people because it will get you nowhere, and they won't ever become any better. Their mindset will almost never change from blaming others to start seeing their own flaws.

Tanks have the responsibility to keep the group going in a good speed, not too slow and not too fast, they are in controll of doing big pulls when cds are up and make a route that maximizes everyone's potential as best as they can.

It is a big responsibility and not for everyone, some people don't wanna have that. That is just the way it is.

With prideful I can agree it gets a bit much at first. But once you get into it you sort of feel like you can't imagine the dungeon without it.

Saying it is too much and bad design is a bit off though, it isn't supposed to be easy, if you wanna do higher keys it is a challenge and that is what makes us evolve and become better, just learn and deal with it.

[Rhoe]

That fight is the most boring fight there is for a tank in SL. Why would it not go on a tank? it's not like we are doing literally anything besides moving the boss to the lantern anyway so if you tank it correctly melee including you don't even have to think about that mechanic.

Well, I usually go boomy form and dps it on fortified because it doesn't really melee all that much. So it's annoying having to go bear and run around. And it's not possible for a boss to be more boring for the tank than the draw soul boss in ToP.

[Rhoe]

when i've been tanking xav on my dk i don't even move... i just stand in every aoe... he can't even kill me...

I was talking about Kul'tharok, but sure. I'd move Xav to the banner, though.

[erifwodahs]

Well, I usually go boomy form and dps it on fortified because it doesn't really melee all that much. So it's annoying having to go bear and run around. And it's not possible for a boss to be more boring for the tank than the draw soul boss in ToP.

Well, at least that boss does damage to you or your party members. HoA boss is literally target dummy.

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when i've been tanking xav on my dk i don't even move... i just stand in every aoe... he can't even kill me...

I am talking from 20+ keys perspective. There is no other boss in SL which would be so easy and insignificant.

[Boricha]

Mm, I think healers have the hardest and most important role in the high end of content, but sure I can agree that it sucks when the tank goes slower than they need to or takes a weird route. It's also more immediately noticeable than an under-performing healer.