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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    No, it was Azeroth/Azshara, and almost all deaths were "metaphorical".

    Azeroth

    First death: The Sundering.
    Second death: The Shattering.
    Third death: Sargeras' Sword.

    Motive: The Heart of Azeroth which she bestowed upon the champions was the key to shattering N'Zoth's bonds.

    Azshara


    First death: Drowning when Zin-Azshari sunk (not metaphorical).
    Second death: Transformation into Naga.
    Third death: Death against the champions (not metaphorical, you can literally hear her last breath, she DIED AT THE ETERNAL PALACE).

    Motive: I mean it should be self-explanatory, she's the one who unlocked N'Zoth's prison.

    How do we know it was them? Because Il'gynoth said "O U R" coming. And Il'gynoth is a minion of N'Zoth. So he was talking about N'Zoth's return, which was made possible by the actions of both Azeroth and Azhsara.
    So you count her drowning and her becoming a naga as two deaths....nope

    It’s the planet
    Or it’s the void elf
    Literally they tossed like 4 possibilities and the naga queen wasn’t one because we don’t kill her. She just passed out which is why you see our guys approach her cautiously

    The old god whispers don’t mean much for now

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Azshara never died.

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    Someone who doesn't force their headcanons onto others? Yes, they are lol
    You guys, are REALLY special sometimes. I mean that sincerely. Not only has Wowhead covered this, MANY, MANY, MANY streamers and lore fanatics have covered this.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/azshara...e-black-empire

    Get over it.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    One of which people? Is there something about Azshara I missed?
    Yeah
    His head canon

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    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    You guys, are REALLY special sometimes. I mean that sincerely. Not only has Wowhead covered this, MANY, MANY, MANY streamers and lore fanatics have covered this.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/azshara...e-black-empire

    Get over it.
    That confirms nothing dude

    It’s literally Wowhead speculation that holds no more weight than anyone else and they also say her elven body was destroyed even though I didn’t know transformation counted as death

  4. #44
    If it weren't because the writers are mediocre.

    But Ashara and Alleria did not die either three times. And azhara seems to know about the Night Warrior Ritual.

    What if they suddenly light up and a "Nzoth night war" comes to us? (I mean because they both seem to come from the magic of the shadows and that)

    PS: If Azhara's first and second deaths were at the same time. They count as one for me.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    So you count her drowning and her becoming a naga as two deaths....nope

    It’s the planet
    Or it’s the void elf
    Literally they tossed like 4 possibilities and the naga queen wasn’t one because we don’t kill her. She just passed out which is why you see our guys approach her cautiously

    The old god whispers don’t mean much for now
    Hypocrisy at its finest. "Azshara's deaths don't count because they are metaphorical. But Alleria's "deaths", both of which are metaphorical, count."

    For once you're right on one thing though, these whispers don't mean much anymore. Since they already came to pass.

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    That confirms nothing dude

    It’s literally Wowhead speculation that holds no more weight than anyone else and they also say her elven body was destroyed even though I didn’t know transformation counted as death
    They don't need to confirm anything. The point of an Old God whisper is that you have to connect the dots. If you've done your homework it's easy to realize Azshara fit the whisper perfectly.

    Blizzard isn't forced to confirm anything to you. If you can't solve the puzzle it's not their fault, and they are not required to give you the answer.

    And also: "I didn't know that being stranded counted as death" and "I didn't know that Void transformation counted as death".

    You know it's funny, Naga transformation doesn't count as death but Void transformation does, how convenient for you.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2021-05-15 at 09:50 PM.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  6. #46
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyram View Post
    Her Second one in Silverpine where she was shot.
    That was actually her third, since she had already yeeted herself off the Icecrown ramparts at the end of WotLK, which was described in Edge of Night (and later retconned as her first meeting with her soon-to-be employer Zovaal).
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    Stop listening to things your known enemies are telling you.
    Enemies that are canonically known to tell you 1 truth for every thousand lies and even then the truth is twisted. I mean if even 1 whisper has been true then the others should have been false and ignored until they do tell us many many many more that we can ignore. Then again if we're believing boss quotes are true and canonical then Deathwing and many others aren't dead since they've screamed that they cannot be defeated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Hypocrisy at its finest. "Azshara's deaths don't count because they are metaphorical. But Alleria's "deaths", both of which are metaphorical, count."

    For once you're right on one thing though, these whispers don't mean much anymore. Since they already came to pass.



    They don't need to confirm anything. The point of an Old God whisper is that you have to connect the dots. If you've done your homework it's easy to realize Azshara fit the whisper perfectly.

    Blizzard isn't forced to confirm anything to you. If you can't solve the puzzle it's not their fault, and they are not required to give you the answer.

    And also: "I didn't know that being stranded counted as death" and "I didn't know that Void transformation counted as death".

    You know it's funny, Naga transformation doesn't count as death but Void transformation does, how convenient for you.
    Except Azshara's wouldn't be 3 it would be 2 as the Naga transformation is a rebirth after a drowning death. Not sure how being saved from her fate is a "death".

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    I only know Sylvanas died once and it was when Arthas killed her. How she died 3 times? When?

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    Because that's what Void does to our minds! Causing madness and chaos!
    I literally posted a video of her third death...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    Godfrey is a straight up G!
    We never knew how good we had it with him alive.

  9. #49
    The nature of the old gods means it's probably multiple things at once. If one "third death" doesn't have the desired effect, then there will be another opportunity. This is the same reason the torches/keys can refer to both the pillars of creation, and the keys in the shadowlands.
    I do not think it is Sylvanas because she has already died three times, and she's a little bit removed from the plots of the old gods. However, they could certainly take advantage of her death all the same.
    I believe that the next "third death" we will see is Ysera, and we have already have seen that she has brought parts of the nightmare with her.
    Last edited by Thundertwig; 2021-05-16 at 03:42 AM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    You guys, are REALLY special sometimes. I mean that sincerely. Not only has Wowhead covered this, MANY, MANY, MANY streamers and lore fanatics have covered this.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/azshara...e-black-empire

    Get over it.
    You linked a theory that stretches lol

    MANY MANY MANY other people have said they believe it's somebody else too.

    What's with you being so defensive over it? Also clearly N'zoth says "usher in our coming". Yet his coming wasn't even ushered yet. Dude had a dream and didn't even touch Azeroth by the time he got kamehameha'd.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Hypocrisy at its finest. "Azshara's deaths don't count because they are metaphorical. But Alleria's "deaths", both of which are metaphorical, count."

    For once you're right on one thing though, these whispers don't mean much anymore. Since they already came to pass.



    They don't need to confirm anything. The point of an Old God whisper is that you have to connect the dots. If you've done your homework it's easy to realize Azshara fit the whisper perfectly.

    Blizzard isn't forced to confirm anything to you. If you can't solve the puzzle it's not their fault, and they are not required to give you the answer.

    And also: "I didn't know that being stranded counted as death" and "I didn't know that Void transformation counted as death".

    You know it's funny, Naga transformation doesn't count as death but Void transformation does, how convenient for you.
    I went by what the character said

    “Blizz made the puzzle if you can’t solve it that’s on you”

    We don’t know if anyone has solved it yet because they gave us all the pieces but no way of telling what answer is the truth

    Let’s assume the line about her third death is stand alone and not connected to the other line about her heart being a crater that has been filled

    That gives us according to your logic 3 possibilities
    The naga queen
    The void elf
    The titan soul

    Now if we add in the line about “her heart is a crater and we have filled it” that gives us another hint that can be taken literally and metaphorically
    This could point to the titan soul
    This could also point to the naga queen because of the whole event that led to her transformation

    Which death ushered in their coming?
    The naga queen didn’t die in the raid but let’s say for the sake of argument she did. She was alive when she started opening the prison so her death wasn’t necessary to open the locks.

    What about the titan soul??
    Her third death being the scouring (I think that’s the name of the sword thing) led to more void and old god stuff immediately

    The cultists rose
    The nagas started moving
    The old god in uldir was released
    The cthraxxi was woken up
    The 2 boss old god raid
    The key to the prison being created
    Xalatath being found and freed leading to nzoth making us his “torch”

    All made possible because of the world soul being gravely wounded (according to the king of diamonds) and then the pawn using us to power up a key

    You’re right though it’s obviously not the world soul because your link to Wowhead said so

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    -snip-
    Buddy what are you even saying. I literally mentioned in my first post here that it could have been Azeroth too:

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    No, it was Azeroth/Azshara, and almost all deaths were "metaphorical".

    Azeroth

    First death: The Sundering.
    Second death: The Shattering.
    Third death: Sargeras' Sword.

    Motive: The Heart of Azeroth which she bestowed upon the champions was the key to shattering N'Zoth's bonds.

    Azshara


    First death: Drowning when Zin-Azshari sunk (not metaphorical).
    Second death: Transformation into Naga.
    Third death: Death against the champions (not metaphorical, you can literally hear her last breath, she DIED AT THE ETERNAL PALACE).

    Motive: I mean it should be self-explanatory, she's the one who unlocked N'Zoth's prison.

    How do we know it was them? Because Il'gynoth said "O U R" coming. And Il'gynoth is a minion of N'Zoth. So he was talking about N'Zoth's return, which was made possible by the actions of both Azeroth and Azhsara.
    And what link to Wowhead?
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyram View Post
    Yup, that's the first death of the Dark Lady, after Arthas was defeated she went in, had a meltdown and threw herself off the top of Icecrown. Then she dies again at the end of the Silverpine campaign in Cataclysm. So this'd be her third death.
    How do you think Sylvanas became a banshee in the first place? Arthas killed and raised Sylvanas during the Warcraft III undead campaign.
    That was obviously her first death.

    Then she yeeted herself off Icecrown after the defeat of Arthas and died as she hit the saronite spikes, but was resurrected by the val'kyr.

    The third death happened at the end of Silverpine when she got shot in the face and got resurrected yet again by the self-sacrifice of the val'kyr.

    TL:DR Sylvanas has most definitely already died at least 3 times.
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    Yes i hate those sneaky account thieves that come to my house and steal my computer in order to steal some wow money! Those bastards! *shakes fist*

  14. #54
    Dreadlord Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Ok. So she died 3 times already, then why is she still alive!?

  15. #55
    Scarab Lord Oneirophobia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    No, was pretty sure it was already confirmed to be Azshara, several times over now.
    Source? We aren't even sure she's died once.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    First death: Drowning when Zin-Azshari sunk (not metaphorical).
    Second death: Transformation into Naga.
    You're saying she died twice in her cinematic? Come on, really?

    Third death: Death against the champions (not metaphorical, you can literally hear her last breath, she DIED AT THE ETERNAL PALACE).
    I'm not even sure this counts but it's at least better than "being turned into a naga after nearly drowning" counting as a death.

    Does my druid die every time he turns into a bear? I suppose void elves are undead because being turned into void creatures is a pretty similar process using pretty similar magic.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    Source? We aren't even sure she's died once.

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    You're saying she died twice in her cinematic? Come on, really?



    I'm not even sure this counts but it's at least better than "being turned into a naga after nearly drowning" counting as a death.

    Does my druid die every time he turns into a bear? I suppose void elves are undead because being turned into void creatures is a pretty similar process using pretty similar magic.
    Since people here think Alleria already died when she was transformed into a Void elf, I am completely allowed to think that Azshara already died when she was transformed into a Naga.

    This was already addressed in the thread.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2021-05-16 at 01:20 PM.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  17. #57
    Bloodsail Admiral Berri's Avatar
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    Blizzard is usually blatantly obvious in their writing. Alleria said she felt like she died twice, which was a clear reference to this whisper. Ergo, this whisper relates to Alleria and her “ushering in” (supposedly of the void) has yet to occur.

    I don’t know why people care so much though? The payoff here is certain to be lackluster. The whispers foreshadowing N’zoth were so cool back in the day but the actual in-game implementation was a joke. Whenever this whisper comes to pass, it’ll probably be the same.

    Still think the most interesting foreshadowing is in BFA’s wriggling mass, which (to me) implies Y’Shaarj’s return after shadowlands. The black goat looking from the outside (from death) switching positions with us feels pretty cut-and-dry within the context of the current expansion. It would make a lot of sense for something to happen with Alleria and Turalyon (who is also referenced in whispers) while we’re in the shadowlands, with the result being the light and void-themed expansion everyone seems to be speculating about all the time.

    Or next expansion is light themed: Turalyon gets super dogmatic -> light tells him to “kill” Alleria -> he hurts her somehow -> she snaps and the expansion does a switcheroo and becomes void-related. It wouldn’t be the first time they pursued an expansion storyline with a jebait like that (MoP, WoD, BfA, etc.)
    Last edited by Berri; 2021-05-16 at 01:32 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Berri View Post
    Blizzard is usually blatantly obvious in their writing. Alleria said she felt like she died twice, which was a clear reference to this whisper. Ergo, this whisper relates to Alleria and her “ushering in” (supposedly of the void) has yet to occur.

    I don’t know why people care so much though? The payoff here is certain to be lackluster. The whispers foreshadowing N’zoth were so cool back in the day but the actual in-game implementation was a joke. Whenever this whisper comes to pass, it’ll probably be the same.

    Still think the most interesting foreshadowing is in BFA’s wriggling mass, which (to me) implies Y’Shaarj’s return after shadowlands. The black goat looking from the outside (from death) switching positions with us feels pretty cut-and-dry within the context of the current expansion. It would make a lot of sense for something to happen with Alleria and Turalyon (who is also referenced in whispers) while we’re in the shadowlands, with the result being the light and void-themed expansion everyone seems to be speculating about all the time.

    Or next expansion is light themed: Turalyon gets super dogmatic -> light tells him to “kill” Alleria -> he hurts her somehow -> she snaps and the expansion does a switcheroo and becomes void-related. It wouldn’t be the first time they pursued an expansion storyline with a jebait like that (MoP, WoD, BfA, etc.)
    You are right, Blizzard is blatantly obvious. Which is why it's blatantly obvious that 'At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming.' Il'gynoth is talking about himself and N'zoth and the Black Empire. Not the powers of Void in some level of abstract. And lo and behold in the moment of Azshara's third death (1. drowning, 2. drowning (again to turn into a Naga) 3. killed by players) guess what happens? N'zoth is unleashed, the Black Empire returns to Azeroth, and Il'gynoth himself is reborn.

    Considering also the other whispers - To find him, drown yourself in the circle of stars. The king of diamonds has been made a pawn. Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it. They are all about the Azshara raid encounter, and us getting tricked into using the HoA to unleash N'zoth.
    Last edited by choom; 2021-05-16 at 05:19 PM.

  19. #59
    Bloodsail Admiral Berri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    You are right, Blizzard is blatantly obvious. Which is why it's blatantly obvious that 'At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming.' Il'gynoth is talking about himself and N'zoth and the Black Empire. Not the powers of Void in some level of abstract. And lo and behold in the moment of Azshara's third death (1. drowning, 2. drowning (again to turn into a Naga) 3. killed by players) guess what happens? N'zoth is unleashed, the Black Empire returns to Azeroth, and Il'gynoth himself is reborn.

    Considering also the other whispers - To find him, drown yourself in the circle of stars. The king of diamonds has been made a pawn. Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it. They are all about the Azshara raid encounter, and us getting tricked into using the HoA to unleash N'zoth.
    Most of il’gynoth’s whispers reference the cosmology / conflict between the cosmic factions, so I don’t think it’s particularly far-fetched to hypothesize that his “our” is referring to Void in the abstract.

    But both interpretations have their merits and we can agree to disagree!

    Still: if 8.3 is all the payoff we’re going to get for any of these whispers, yikes.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Berri View Post
    Most of il’gynoth’s whispers reference the cosmology / conflict between the cosmic factions, so I don’t think it’s particularly far-fetched to hypothesize that his “our” is referring to Void in the abstract.

    But both interpretations have their merits and we can agree to disagree!

    Still: if 8.3 is all the payoff we’re going to get for any of these whispers, yikes.
    It is even MORE obvious that it's foreshadowing 8.3 if you trace the way WoW's development team operates internally. In short, since MoP/WoD they have had a Team A and a Team B that develop expansions concurrently. A big reason why WoD turned out the way that it did, half baked, was because they were simultaneously training the second development team. It fits the development timeline that, while one team was launching Legion/Emerald Nightmare that BFA/Nazjatar raid was in development at the exact same time, hence the ability to foreshadow stuff.

    I am sure we are starting to get cosmic war plot hints now, because they're already cooking the next expansion right now.

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