1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You'll be waiting a long time, because you're drawing a false dichotomy to try and skip over having to defend yourself on the merits. I've been clear all along that the rocket attacks by Hamas are unjustifiable.

    That doesn't make Israel's responses automatically justifed, which is where you trip up.

    So what would be the correct repsonse then? because precision strikes and forewarning the inhabitans of an area is about as justified someone could get. Myself would justify carpeting bombing the place preferably with incendiary weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I just operate from a stance where civilian casualties aren't acceptable, and work forward from there.

    If that means military action is not feasible, that does not mean civilian casualties are acceptable. It means military action is not feasible.

    You're never going to convince me that there's an acceptable rate of civilian deaths, or that the collateral damage from Israel's attacks come anywhere close to such a margin.
    Your stance while noble is not viable nor worthy of thought or merit.

  2. #242
    Yo, are Palestinians still getting lynched in the streets?

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Would you ignore someone with nukes who hates you? That's like saying why doesn't the US be sensible and ignore China.
    Unlike China ,Isreal doesnt have any ambitions on territorial conquests because they lack the population or economy to do so. The only lands they annexed from their neighbours are only useful from a military point of view.

  4. #244
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    So what would be the correct repsonse then? because precision strikes and forewarning the inhabitans of an area is about as justified someone could get. Myself would justify carpeting bombing the place preferably with incendiary weapons.
    A response that doesn't casually kill civilians to the tune of more than a hundred innocent deaths per year, on average, since 2008.

    Your stance while noble is not viable nor worthy of thought or merit.
    Because you don't consider Palestinian lives to have value.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    Unlike China ,Isreal doesnt have any ambitions on territorial conquests because they lack the population or economy to do so. The only lands they annexed from their neighbours are only useful from a military point of view.
    Israel's illegal settlements in occupied territories clearly demonstrate this to just be a deliberate lie.


  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yo, are Palestinians still getting lynched in the streets?
    Hmmm...Israeli snipers target children, health workers and journalists Does this count?

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    This is an never ending cycle of death
    Yeah, this conflict will never be solved by violence. As long as either side uses weapons it will go on forever.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yo, are Palestinians still getting lynched in the streets?
    Yes.

    Its the IDF we're talking about. Bunch of racist bastards
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    A few dozen deaths really underestimates the horror Gaza and the west bank have gone through these past few decades.
    I mean, I hate these "who killed more people" competitions, because that's not the point I'm trying to make, but honestly...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palest...ualties_of_war

    They're barely even getting close to 100k deaths. People need to get some perspective. Tragic as it may be, comparisons to Hitler are inappropriate in that they belittle the tragedy that is the Jewish Holocaust.
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  9. #249
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    Unlike China ,Isreal doesnt have any ambitions on territorial conquests because they lack the population or economy to do so. The only lands they annexed from their neighbours are only useful from a military point of view.
    You mean like east-Jerusalem? Or all those Israeli settlers on the west bank?

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I just operate from a stance where civilian casualties aren't acceptable, and work forward from there.......
    And that's why you are not in charge of anything. Countries have obligations before their citizens. Israel is probably THE best example of that.
    Why the hell should Israel risk it's soldiers lives? WTF? I cannot believe someone can write something so out of touch with, well, everything.
    Israel is already hampering itself right now from military viewpoint (which would be to level Gaza to the ground until they stop firing and surrender fully).

    You have only the viewpoint of an idealist. Real world is not perfect and has limitations. Half of this forum cannot grasp it. You cannot achieve everything, you can only do your best to try to. Israel tries it's best to avoid civilian casualties. They are literally the best in the world about this and I am not exagerating. There is limit to everything, though.

    Bullshit? This is from OCHA homepage, btw:

    Reportedly, between 10 May and 12 May, at least 43 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza and at least 296 injured, with air strikes damaging civilian infrastructure and disrupting electrical supply. Scores of homes and buildings, including some schools, have been damaged.

    There are preliminary figures on casualties and damages, and information is still coming in.
    Kinda lacking information about the sources... There is a reason I wrote "IIRC". I will also remind you that in 2014 UN institutions in Gaza had rockets hidden in them.

    Ah, right, Endus, one more thing. Start fucking asking the same from Arab countries as you do from Israel. Oh, right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yo, are Palestinians still getting lynched in the streets?
    Together with Jews. How many tweets of stupid shit happening ya want?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  11. #251
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    Unlike China ,Isreal doesnt have any ambitions on territorial conquests because they lack the population or economy to do so. The only lands they annexed from their neighbours are only useful from a military point of view.
    Yeah, like Golan Heights they have to keep because it was a platform for missiles for Syria and admittedly they have to have a presence in the West Bank because Jordan cannot be trusted either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

    More than 3000 Palestinian civilian deaths since 2008. 900 of those children. Another 1500 deaths whose classification is "disputed", where Israel claims they were combatants but this is not widely accepted.

    It isn't a "few dozen", and trying to convince people to hold off on condemning it until it hits the millions of deaths scale is . . . unconscionable.
    Condemn all you want, belittle the Holocaust? I'm not gonna let that pass. Americans have fucked up more people in the Middle East in the past two decades than Israelis did in Palestine. If you seriously get your emotional freak on over this, I think you need to reevaluate your position. Again, condemn, sure, why not. It is condemnable after all, but the emotional hyperbole that people engage in is entirely inappropriate and serves no purpose other than rile people up. You of all people should be more reflective of these things.
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  13. #253
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
    Hardly ethnic cleansing. Hurt feelings? You're clearly projecting yet again. No hurt feelings here, just facts. I'm happily living in reality and accepting it. Nothing you say, think, or feel can change reality...but of course that won't stop you delusional lot from trying
    You sure don't sound like somebody who can handle the Isreali government getting called fascist for its ethnic cleansing.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I mean, I hate these "who killed more people" competitions, because that's not the point I'm trying to make, but honestly...
    Well we could wait until the comparison become more justifiable if that's your preference. If you think it through it is just a matter of time.

  15. #255
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post

    Ah, right, Endus, one more thing. Start fucking asking the same from Arab countries as you do from Israel. Oh, right.
    Holding the Arabs to the same standards Israel is held to is probably a war crime or human rights violation. I mean given demanding Arabs pay rent to a Israeli whose ancestor bought the building before Israel even existed and was forced by the supposedly bigoted court system to accept the leases issued by a hostile army they denied him the ability to collect rent for his own building and being evicted only after decades of hassle is considered ethnic cleansing, genocide and a second Holocaust; who knows what an unacceptable violation it might be to demand of the Arabs the same that some activist westerners demand of the Israeli's.
    Last edited by Theodarzna; 2021-05-13 at 06:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    This conflict has only claimed a few dozen? have you already forgotten the bombings of gaza, the targeting strikes Israel did to destroy water treatment plants (a war crime)? We have a huge topic on it...
    Don't get hung up on "a few dozen". It's a mean little rhetorical trickery to belittle the current death toll when look at the comparison to the genocide in the Holocaust. In comparison, I might have said insignificant, tiny or any number of different words. I get it, everytime something down there happens, people's social media is flooded with propaganda videos from either side and suddenly everyone is outraged to the max by something they didn't give a shit about a week ago, but really, you should be used to this by now. Less freakout, more sane discussion. The amount of emotional drivel I see in these threads is pathetic.
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  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Americans have fucked up more people in the Middle East in the past two decades than Israelis did in Palestine.
    And when the US makes its exit from the mideast do you think things will improve?

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Condemn all you want, belittle the Holocaust? I'm not gonna let that pass. Americans have fucked up more people in the Middle East in the past two decades than Israelis did in Palestine. If you seriously get your emotional freak on over this, I think you need to reevaluate your position. Again, condemn, sure, why not. It is condemnable after all, but the emotional hyperbole that people engage in is entirely inappropriate and serves no purpose other than rile people up. You of all people should be more reflective of these things.
    pretty sure plenty of European countries have had their fingers in that pie. also kind of presumptive of you to assume they are ok with that?

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    Unlike China ,Isreal doesnt have any ambitions on territorial conquests because they lack the population or economy to do so. The only lands they annexed from their neighbours are only useful from a military point of view.
    We are here partly because Israel keeps taking more and more land...

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    That's from 2019, the last time the Israeli military seemed pretty happy to engage in war crimes.

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