1. #2841
    Stood in the Fire tehdang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    But wait, there is even more:


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-58010712

    Sadly, I have seen way too many videos, not only from Israel/Palestine but also from elsewhere in the world, about attempting to drive through checkpoint while ordered to stop, for whatever the reason.

    P.S.
    Hamas answer about rockets is truly funny.
    I hope for their sake that they have video of the alleged activity.

    When the car did not stop, one of the soldiers fired at its wheels, it said.

    Mohammed al-Alami's family said he was shot in the chest. He was taken to a hospital in the nearby city of Hebron but died of his wounds.
    Obviously, an investigation is needed when the reports diverge this much.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  2. #2842
    So regarding that eviction case which was used as a pretext for protests and rocket launches afterwards - Israeli Supreme Court has proposed a compromise - no one get's evicted and can keep living there, but they recognise the land as belonging to Jewish organisation.

    Under the court's plan, the Palestinians - among more than 70 families threatened with eviction - would remain as "protected tenants" who cannot be evicted for the foreseeable future so long as they pay rent to the Jewish organisation which owns the land - a status quo which existed up until the 1980s.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-58024060

    Let's hope that reason prevails.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  3. #2843
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    So regarding that eviction case which was used as a pretext for protests and rocket launches afterwards - Israeli Supreme Court has proposed a compromise - no one get's evicted and can keep living there, but they recognise the land as belonging to Jewish organisation.



    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-58024060

    Let's hope that reason prevails.
    Given that the Turkish documents about the actual land ownership demonstrate it was never owned by the Jewish landlords that Israel claims, and that said evidence was barred from the Israeli courts, this is just extortion, using the threat of forced evictions to make the Palestinians living there pay what's essentially protection money.

    There's no way to accept the Israeli courts' decisions, as they are anything but an unbiased source.
    Last edited by Endus; 2021-08-02 at 04:49 PM.


  4. #2844
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    So regarding that eviction case which was used as a pretext for protests and rocket launches afterwards - Israeli Supreme Court has proposed a compromise - no one get's evicted and can keep living there, but they recognise the land as belonging to Jewish organisation.



    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-58024060

    Let's hope that reason prevails.
    whats the point in having a court if they aren't going to rule on the case? Completely evading its duty. Either the Palestinians have the right to the property or the settlers do.

  5. #2845
    Stood in the Fire tehdang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    So regarding that eviction case which was used as a pretext for protests and rocket launches afterwards - Israeli Supreme Court has proposed a compromise - no one get's evicted and can keep living there, but they recognise the land as belonging to Jewish organisation.



    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-58024060

    Let's hope that reason prevails.
    Something tells me there’s going to be extreme pressure from Palestinian activist groups for them to refuse to pay rent to Jewish landlords.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  6. #2846
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Given that the Turkish documents about the actual land ownership demonstrate it was never owned by the Jewish landlords that Israel claims, and that said evidence was barred from the Israeli courts, this is just extortion, using the threat of forced evictions to make the Palestinians living there pay what's essentially protection money.

    There's no way to accept the Israeli courts' decisions, as they are anything but an unbiased source.

    Or... The courts actually made an unbiased ruling...? You argue from the position where Arabs were always right. This is not exactly the region with the best documentation about, well, everything. People do live in houses across the world without any kind of proof they actually own them, even if they actually do, just lack papers. Not exactly unique to Palestine.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    whats the point in having a court if they aren't going to rule on the case? Completely evading its duty. Either the Palestinians have the right to the property or the settlers do.
    Simplest answer? There might not be enough evidence by both sides.

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Something tells me there’s going to be extreme pressure from Palestinian activist groups for them to refuse to pay rent to Jewish landlords.
    I would love to answer this, but I will refrain from it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  7. #2847
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Or... The courts actually made an unbiased ruling...? You argue from the position where Arabs were always right.
    Where did I ever make such a claim? I've condemned actions by Arabs plenty. You're deflecting.

    This is not exactly the region with the best documentation about, well, everything. People do live in houses across the world without any kind of proof they actually own them, even if they actually do, just lack papers. Not exactly unique to Palestine.
    That's kind of a shitty argument if you're claiming that Israeli citizens own properties outside of Israel and thus can evict the Palestinians living there.

    Unless they've got solid documentation, and I have not seen any argument that they do, the courts shouldn't have any opinion. Worse, the Israeli court shouldn't even have jurisdiction.

    Simplest answer? There might not be enough evidence by both sides.
    If that were the case, the Court would be ethically obliged to not decide in favor of either side.

    That is not what happened.


  8. #2848
    Stood in the Fire tehdang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    I would love to answer this, but I will refrain from it.
    It’s fine, I’m speculating about the future anyways. The real eviction part of the dispute never was the major constituting element. Legitimate Jewish land claims of any kind always was. And this recognizes them in some respect, whether or not it’s enough of a recognition to start a riot on the Temple Mount or fire rockets from Gaza or anything.

    But whatever. Wait and see.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  9. #2849
    I guess we will see in a week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Where did I ever make such a claim? I've condemned actions by Arabs plenty. You're deflecting.



    That's kind of a shitty argument if you're claiming that Israeli citizens own properties outside of Israel and thus can evict the Palestinians living there.

    Unless they've got solid documentation, and I have not seen any argument that they do, the courts shouldn't have any opinion. Worse, the Israeli court shouldn't even have jurisdiction.



    If that were the case, the Court would be ethically obliged to not decide in favor of either side.

    That is not what happened.
    You started by automatically blaming Israeli court. It implies that you took their side.

    Who the hell cares what YOU have or have not seen? You are no one and nobody, just an anonimus on a game forum, like we all are. Do you have access to court materials? You do not, therefore you guess by what is basically press releases.

    Again, you do not know anything as you were not in court room. I also assume that you do not read Arabic and/or Ivrit, so documents would be pointless anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  10. #2850
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    You started by automatically blaming Israeli court. It implies that you took their side.
    I took the side of the residents in this particular instance.

    That's not the same as "arguing from the position that Arabs are always right".

    There was no "automatic blaming". That's prejudicial horseshit you're imputing because you need to make this about my personal character, not the facts, for some reason.


  11. #2851
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    So regarding that eviction case which was used as a pretext for protests and rocket launches afterwards - Israeli Supreme Court has proposed a compromise - no one get's evicted and can keep living there, but they recognise the land as belonging to Jewish organisation.



    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-58024060

    Let's hope that reason prevails.
    Didn't even read the article at first but I can tell even without reading that this isn't a compromise and that the Palestinians would reject this.
    First "belongs to Jewish organisations" really does show that the law itself was a racist law to begin with.

    There was a story in the Guardian a couple of days ago how Poland is not given back properties that where stolen by the Nazi's during the occupation. Honestly though it's hard to find feel sorry for the decedents of those that got wronged (to put it mildly) if you are doing the exact same thing or benefited from this exact behaviour.
    Last edited by ati87; 2021-08-03 at 01:44 PM.

  12. #2852
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    This whole home ownership is bullshit anyway, because we A) know it only runs one way, Palestinians that own homes in Israel are not allowed to return. B) East-Jerusalem is occupied by Israel and its now enforcing its will, this just glorified theft by Israeli home-corporations on private citizens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Timmy still can get lunch, it's just not free.

  13. #2853
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    This whole home ownership is bullshit anyway, because we A) know it only runs one way, Palestinians that own homes in Israel are not allowed to return. B) East-Jerusalem is occupied by Israel and its now enforcing its will, this just glorified theft by Israeli home-corporations on private citizens.
    That last bit is the real problem, in my eyes.

    It isn't part of Israel. Why the hell do Israeli courts have any jurisdiction?


  14. #2854
    Palestinians decided against that compromise, as expected. This might end with them getting nothing, final ruling is yet to occur.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I took the side of the residents in this particular instance.

    That's not the same as "arguing from the position that Arabs are always right".

    There was no "automatic blaming". That's prejudicial horseshit you're imputing because you need to make this about my personal character, not the facts, for some reason.
    You went with blah blah Israeli courts bad/biased, so maybe try to be less prejudiced yourself. You seem quite defensive...

    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    Didn't even read the article at first but I can tell even without reading that this isn't a compromise and that the Palestinians would reject this.
    First "belongs to Jewish organisations" really does show that the law itself was a racist law to begin with.

    There was a story in the Guardian a couple of days ago how Poland is not given back properties that where stolen by the Nazi's during the occupation. Honestly though it's hard to find feel sorry for the decedents of those that got wronged (to put it mildly) if you are doing the exact same thing or benefited from this exact behaviour.
    Ah yes, it's gotta be racism!!11
    *eyeroll*

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That last bit is the real problem, in my eyes.

    It isn't part of Israel. Why the hell do Israeli courts have any jurisdiction?
    1. Because it is disputed territory in their eyes.
    2. Since you were one of those arguing that Israel as occupiers are responsible for vaccination of Palestinians (IIRC), then you should have no reason to dislike that they also hold the judiciary power. No choosing specific things...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  15. #2855
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post


    1. Because it is disputed territory in their eyes.
    Irrelevant.

    2. Since you were one of those arguing that Israel as occupiers are responsible for vaccination of Palestinians (IIRC), then you should have no reason to dislike that they also hold the judiciary power. No choosing specific things...
    2 very different things, Israel is responsible for the needs of the people in territory they block off or occupy. Making it even worse by just taking shit is not exactly a point.

    But hey, if Israel pulls back from the west bank/east Jerusalem and stops any blockade they have in place they won't have to worry about such pesky things.
    Last edited by JohnBrown1917; 2021-08-04 at 12:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Timmy still can get lunch, it's just not free.

  16. #2856
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    You went with blah blah Israeli courts bad/biased, so maybe try to be less prejudiced yourself. You seem quite defensive...
    What "prejudice"?

    I'm not "defensive". You're being slanderous and abusive and I'm choosing to not fire back in kind.

    1. Because it is disputed territory in their eyes.
    They don't get to make that determination. In fact, claiming it as Israeli territory would be a war crime.

    2. Since you were one of those arguing that Israel as occupiers are responsible for vaccination of Palestinians (IIRC), then you should have no reason to dislike that they also hold the judiciary power. No choosing specific things...
    Feel free to quote me on that. I'm pretty sure I expressed no such opinion. I believe the only thing I might have said regarding vaccines was that Israel should not be blocking vaccines from going to Palestine. Which, y'know; https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y-palestinians


  17. #2857
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Palestinians decided against that compromise, as expected. This might end with them getting nothing, final ruling is yet to occur.
    This isn't a compromise.....losing your home on paper still means you lost your home.

    Ah yes, it's gotta be racism!!11
    *eyeroll*
    I suggest glasses, I used to do this as well when I was 11 and I needed glasses.

    But lets reverse this. Can any Palestinians go to a Jewish Israeli owned property, show proof that the land of which that house is build was previously owned by them or there family and take ownership?
    Last edited by ati87; 2021-08-04 at 05:50 AM.

  18. #2858
    "Might makes right" is not a concept that you just get to ignore simply because you find it unjust or irrational.
    'The West' would do well to give that concept a bit more respect and acknowledgment, even in it's own history.

  19. #2859
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    "Might makes right" is not a concept that you just get to ignore simply because you find it unjust or irrational.
    Actually, ignoring that very concept is pretty much the basis for pretty much any legal framework.

    But good on you for admitting that Israel has no legal justification for what it's doing and that it's purely an exercise in colonialism. :thumbsup:
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  20. #2860
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Actually, ignoring that very concept is pretty much the basis for pretty much any legal framework.
    The very opposite of what you claimed is true when that might is enforced by a state with an army.
    It is the might that gives Israel it's legal justification and every other kind of justification you can imagine too.
    And a billion people may then shout that it's not right, but they can easily and safely ignore those calls.

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