1. #2901
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    69,172
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Alright, because it matters so deeply for some, let me rephrase it: "Geneva convention approved might makes right."

    Doesn't sound quite as catchy though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    I see what you're saying, except their argument boils down to: "violence no longer exists or is valid in the modern world," - which I can't agree with.
    My own argument is that terrorism is not a valid way of engaging in violence.
    You can't even see the direct and blatant contradiction here, can you?

    If "might makes right", then terrorism is totally defensible and a reasonable option to pursue. It's "might". Applying it enough to win makes it "right". That is literally what "might makes right" means.

    If "might makes right", then you can't take issue with certain forms of "might" on moral or ethical grounds; "might makes right", after all.


  2. #2902
    Banned Rochana Violence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Your forum signature
    Posts
    6,318
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You can't even see the direct and blatant contradiction here, can you?
    There is no contradiction when the word 'right' in the maxim refers to the right to claim land and ownership, not the right to override military ethics or the Geneva Convention. In reality there are several forces that do have that might and have used it many times in the past, adding further validity to the "might makes right" maxim. But Palestinians aren't even remotely one of those forces. Terrorist attacks does not make them 'mightier'.

    When I think about it Israel might have that might too compared to palestinians, while palestinians don't have it in return. So yes, "might makes right" still applies. And until palestinians have more meaningful might, I'll keep disapproving of their child soldiers and terrorists bombing market places or shopping centers.
    Last edited by Rochana Violence; 2021-08-07 at 04:33 PM.

  3. #2903
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    I see what you're saying, except their argument boils down to: "violence no longer exists or is valid in the modern world," - which I can't agree with.
    My own argument is that terrorism is not a valid way of engaging in violence.
    Weird strawman.

  4. #2904
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    69,172
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    There is no contradiction when the word 'right' in the maxim refers to the right to claim land and ownership, not the right to override military ethics or the Geneva Convention. In reality there are several forces that do have that might and have used it many times in the past, adding further validity to the "might makes right" maxim. But Palestinians aren't even remotely one of those forces. Terrorist attacks does not make them 'mightier'.

    When I think about it Israel might have that might too compared to palestinians, while palestinians don't have it in return. So yes, "might makes right" still applies. And until palestinians have more meaningful might, I'll keep disapproving of their child soldiers and terrorists bombing market places or shopping centers.
    Which, again, means you'll suddenly start approving of their child soldiers and market bombings if those tactics start winning, because that means their "might" is superior.

    Because you don't have an ethical stance at all, you just blindly follow the biggest bully in the room.

    That's what "might makes right" means.


  5. #2905
    Let's keep the shitfest going, my friends. So now there is the awaited 2nd part into HRW investigation:

    Hamas rocket fire a war crime, Human Rights Watch says
    It also notes that misfires indeed have killed Palestinians. Something that should have been obvious to everyone, but oh well.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-58183968
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  6. #2906

  7. #2907
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Обединени социалистически щати на Америка
    Posts
    27,956
    Those kids where clearly hamas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Timmy still can get lunch, it's just not free.

  8. #2908
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Обединени социалистически щати на Америка
    Posts
    27,956
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nirhasson...I-ij3bCinpJdOk


    Just the Israeli army attacking activists for no reason again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Timmy still can get lunch, it's just not free.

  9. #2909
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nirhasson...I-ij3bCinpJdOk


    Just the Israeli army attacking activists for no reason again.
    Is there a full video?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  10. #2910
    Stood in the Fire tehdang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    473
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Is there a full video?
    Based on that short video, I'm going to presume it refers to this incident:
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-of...-with-censure/
    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/id...n-hills-679758

    It appears there is no fuller video.

    IDF alleges attacks and attempted attacks prior to this. There is criticism that the responsible party was let off with just military censure. The military investigation decided that the use of tear gas and stun grenades was unwarranted.

    Activists were preventing residents from entering and leaving their community, according to residents. The IDF investigation also claims that protestors refused to clear a traffic lane for settlers after being told verbally to disperse. There are accounts from activists denying they were blocking the road, or engaging in any violence, and residents saying they were stuck behind the protest unable to pass, and the weekly protests make them feel unsafe to leave their homes.

    Biggest problem is all the videos show just resulting action, and incredibly little before or during.
    Last edited by tehdang; 2021-09-22 at 02:54 PM.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  11. #2911
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Love, Cassie & Nina
    Posts
    55,622
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    IDF alleges
    They do that a lot.

    Better question is why y'all believe them, rofl.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  12. #2912
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Обединени социалистически щати на Америка
    Posts
    27,956
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    They do that a lot.

    Better question is why y'all believe them, rofl.
    Either because they agree with them killing/suppressing Palestinians or because of the whole christian doomsday cult shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Timmy still can get lunch, it's just not free.

  13. #2913
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Biggest problem is all the videos show just resulting action, and incredibly little before or during.
    And that is the core of the problem, always have to have the full picture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  14. #2914
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Love, Cassie & Nina
    Posts
    55,622
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    And that is the core of the problem, always have to have the full picture.
    Lemme know when you start doing this as opposed to immediately accepting what the IDF alleges as fact. Rofl.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  15. #2915
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Lemme know when you start doing this as opposed to immediately accepting what the IDF alleges as fact. Rofl.
    Oh shut it. When you post things like these you have little grounds to argue, because you have already decided who is at fault without seeing everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    They do that a lot.

    Better question is why y'all believe them, rofl.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  16. #2916
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Love, Cassie & Nina
    Posts
    55,622
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Oh shut it. When you post things like these you have little grounds to argue, because you have already decided who is at fault without seeing everything.
    This takes me back to people bitching at me for not giving the South African government the benefit of the doubt. Lul.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  17. #2917
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Oh shut it. When you post things like these you have little grounds to argue, because you have already decided who is at fault without seeing everything.
    He has plenty of grounds. Considering the IDF's willingness to mislead/lie about these things and your tendency to bootlick/excuse their wrong doing. An Israeli could kick a Palestinian child's puppy and you'd blame the child because it wasn't on a leash.

    Waiting for sufficient evidence is always a good thing. But the problem is with apologists like you is that no matter how much evidence there is there's always one more piece that we need to wait for before we're allowed to form a negative opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    This takes me back to people bitching at me for not giving the South African government the benefit of the doubt. Lul.
    Or the dozens of other times he's said the same thing about the IDF. And then we got the evidence and he still blames the Palestinians after the IDF is shown to be lieing or at fault.
    Last edited by shimerra; 2021-09-23 at 12:55 PM.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
    "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
    Ambrose Bierce
    The Bird of Hermes Is My Name, Eating My Wings To Make Me Tame.

  18. #2918
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Love, Cassie & Nina
    Posts
    55,622
    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Or the dozens of other times he's said the same thing about the IDF. And then we got the evidence and he still blames the Palestinians after the IDF is shown to be lieing or at fault.
    You know the other telling thing? I can't actually recall a single person on this forum who advocates for more humane treatment of Palestinians try to justify Hamas' attacks or even support Hamas' existence. Compare to most if not all the people shilling for Israel who absolutely go out of their way to not only justify Israel's attacks on Palestine as necessary but also an eminent good.

    It's very telling as to which side is actually concerned about the human cost and which side is simply using the human cost as a cudgel to push the Islamophobia that's become highly fashionable in Europe lately.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  19. #2919
    Ya'all are just the paragons of objectivity, I'm sure
    P.S.
    And now it is Islamophobia. So predictable...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  20. #2920
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Ya'all are just the paragons of objectivity, I'm sure
    P.S.
    And now it is Islamophobia. So predictable...
    is this you showing us your belly? in that you can't actually refute what people are saying but you have to make a show of it anyway?

    and yeah, that's pretty much the only competent of this discussion that decides whose lives are worth more than others, religious affiliation.

    every single Israeli killed is a tragedy.

    dozens of Palestinian's killed is a statistic.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •