1. #2921
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Ya'all are just the paragons of objectivity, I'm sure
    Congratulations on refuting something no one claimed. *slow clap*

    P.S.
    And now it is Islamophobia. So predictable...
    Gee, maybe it's because the attitudes towards Palestinians in this thread are very clearly colored by bias, as evidenced by excusing Israel's acts of violence but not Hamas' as well as your constant conflation of Hamas with the Palestinian population at large to justify Israeli reprisal against civilians.

    You know, just like American racists like to conflate every Mexican with the cartels to justify brutalizing immigrants and asylum seekers. Check yourself.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  2. #2922
    Elegiac has forgotten that Hamas did win the election back then, that they still have high support according to polls, enough to threaten PA position. It does not work like that, Elegiac. There are more than one or two Palestinians, who like Hamas actions. More than few thousand. More than hundred thousand (incoming screams asking for proof). Pretending that it is not true means choosing to be blind. No shit Abbas wants to delay elections as much as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  3. #2923
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Oh shut it. When you post things like these you have little grounds to argue, because you have already decided who is at fault without seeing everything.
    Unlike you who is the poster child of unbiased right?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Elegiac has forgotten that Hamas did win the election back then, that they still have high support according to polls, enough to threaten PA position. It does not work like that, Elegiac. There are more than one or two Palestinians, who like Hamas actions. More than few thousand. More than hundred thousand (incoming screams asking for proof). Pretending that it is not true means choosing to be blind. No shit Abbas wants to delay elections as much as possible.
    When you treat a people like shit they tend to eventually fight back.


    You can see the same thing happening here in America with minorities.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
    Yo, don't mind my "street talk"

  4. #2924
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Elegiac has forgotten that Hamas did win the election back then
    Just like you've forgotten this still doesn't make conflation of the two to justify civilian causalities either factual or acceptable in the same way conflating Americans with Biden or all Chinese with Winnie the Flu is neither factual nor acceptable.

    Moreover, it's just you lot doing it, too: nobody's conflating Israel as a state with the entirety of its citizen body to justify Hamas attacks on civilians, nor are they conflating Israel with all Jewish people. (Except, ironically, the pro-Israel folks who insist criticizing Israel is a form of antisemitism).
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  5. #2925
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post

    When you treat a people like shit they tend to eventually fight back.
    Fantastic. Simply fantastic. Something something about time being a flat circle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  6. #2926
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    I don't think the IDF desperately needs the support from the USA to be able to keep defending it's claimed territories anymore either at this point. I'm not even sure if the reason as to why Israel has the military power it has, is really important, unless you believe that the goal should be for the USA to stop supporting Israel... which to me just sounds a roundabout way of saying you'd like more Israeli civilians to get bombed and destabilizing the region even further.
    Your posts age like milk.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/1-bill...separate-bill/

    US Democrats introduced standalone legislation late Wednesday to provide Israel with $1 billion for its Iron Dome missile defense system after the funding was struck off a government spending bill amid pressure from progressive lawmakers.

    This funding is on top of the 3+ Billion they get in aid every year from the United States. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why the IDF does whatever it wants to Palestinians with no repercussions. They know nobody will do anything about it while they have the full funding and backing of the USA.

    And before I'm accused of wanting Hamas rockets to hit Israel by bad-faith, shitposters: No, I don't want to see Israeli civilians die from Hamas rockets. But if they're going to insist on war-criming Palestinians on a regular basis then they should fuck off and pay for this shit themselves.
    Last edited by downnola; 2021-09-25 at 04:51 PM.
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  7. #2927
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    You know the other telling thing? I can't actually recall a single person on this forum who advocates for more humane treatment of Palestinians try to justify Hamas' attacks or even support Hamas' existence. Compare to most if not all the people shilling for Israel who absolutely go out of their way to not only justify Israel's attacks on Palestine as necessary but also an eminent good.
    First there was absolutely a "what's wrong with Hamas?" post in this thread, from one of the prominent "Palestinian supporters" of these forums. No, I'm not gonna go thru 150 pages to find you a link. More importantly however, every post that says "Hamas is bad but...they are doing it cause evil Israeli court decision" or "Hamas is bad but.... they are doing it cause evil Israeli police is trying to arrest some rioters hiding in a mosque" or "Hamas is bad but...blah blah blah someone is settling in your backyard" is not a post criticizing Hamas but rather a post defending Hamas, and those are the majority of posts I'm seeing here. Thinking there is ANY excuse for shelling civilian population centers with thousands of rockets = supporting terrorism.

    But what can you expect from simple pro-Palestinian posters if your beloved international community and the UN fail to condemn shelling Israeli cities by Hamas
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...-condemn-hamas (must be biased pro-Israel reporting btw, those damn Zionist supporters of Aljazeera) back in 2018, that's when there were no any large scale IDF responses to the Palestinian attacks.
    Or when the honey of most British pro-Palestinians Jeremy Corbyn explicitly calls Hamas and Hezbollah, the 2 organizations bent on exterminating all Jews (not just in Israel) his friends https://www.facebook.com/hillelneuer...7277405491729/ . I have little doubt that quite a few posters in this thread who supposedly "don't support Hamas" have voted for this guy despite being aware of this.

    Gee, maybe it's because the attitudes towards Palestinians in this thread are very clearly colored by bias, as evidenced by excusing Israel's acts of violence but not Hamas' as well as your constant conflation of Hamas with the Palestinian population at large to justify Israeli reprisal against civilians.

    You know, just like American racists like to conflate every Mexican with the cartels to justify brutalizing immigrants and asylum seekers. Check yourself.
    And yet Hamas is the elected Palestinian government, that the Palestinians have failed to get rid of since electing them in 2006, or even failed to stop supporting them. But it's just in Gaza right? No it's not, Hamas is extremely popular in the West Bank too, and the only reason the moderate Fatah terrorists stay in power there is because of the IDF presence. The day IDF withdraws will be the day Mahmoud Abbas and his cronies are hanging on the trees in Ramallah. Not exactly surprising he wants to keep status quo and thus making impossible demands of Israel to make sure no agreement is ever achieved.
    So where were we? Oh yeah the elected government. Only in the entire history of mankind simple people had to pay the price for the actions of their rulers, and in most cases they didn't even have a say in who those rulers were. here Palestinians absolutely do have a say, and yet y'all don't consider them responsible? Of course civilians purposely being targeted is still not justified, good thing IDF isn't doing that, however living in poverty as well as having occasional unfortunate casualties of war that their beloved elected terrorists start every few years are the consequences of their poor choice.
    Many leftists so love trying to dehumanize Trump voters or Johnson voters or Le Pen voters or Netanyahu voters yet somehow have no problem with Hamas voters and don't think they are responsible for anything. Funny isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post

    When you treat a people like shit they tend to eventually fight back.
    "When someone treats me poorly, it's ok to engage in terrorism".
    Oh and the word eventually assumes there was ever a time in the modern history when Palestinians/Arabs were not attacking Israel/Jews. Except there wasn't. And I'm not even talking about the time after the so called "occupation", and not even after the creation of Israel. Try a few decades before that.
    Last edited by Fandis; 2021-09-24 at 11:04 AM.

  8. #2928
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fandis View Post
    "When someone treats me poorly, it's ok to engage in terrorism".
    Oh and the word eventually assumes there was ever a time in the modern history when Palestinians/Arabs were not attacking Israel/Jews. Except there wasn't. And I'm not even talking about the time after the so called "occupation", and not even after the creation of Israel. Try a few decades before that.
    ... poorly..... yeah they are only treated poorly.... they aren't terrorized themselves.....
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
    Yo, don't mind my "street talk"

  9. #2929
    Stood in the Fire tehdang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fandis View Post
    First there was absolutely a "what's wrong with Hamas?" post in this thread, from one of the prominent "Palestinian supporters" of these forums. No, I'm not gonna go thru 150 pages to find you a link. More importantly however, every post that says "Hamas is bad but...they are doing it cause evil Israeli court decision" or "Hamas is bad but.... they are doing it cause evil Israeli police is trying to arrest some rioters hiding in a mosque" or "Hamas is bad but...blah blah blah someone is settling in your backyard" is not a post criticizing Hamas but rather a post defending Hamas, and those are the majority of posts I'm seeing here. Thinking there is ANY excuse for shelling civilian population centers with thousands of rockets = supporting terrorism.
    It's been pointed out before to no effect.

    Decrying Hamas and their actions is humane with respect to the Palestinian people not engaging in the violence. Hamas rocket misfires, estimated somewhere between 1/5 and 1/3, kill Palestinian lives. International pressure on Hamas, sanctions, rejection from their foreign backers all lead to more humane treatment and living conditions for Palestinians. If we take out active supporters of Hamas terrorism, they're major victims of the actions of Hamas alongside with Israeli civilians. But there's something that goes haywire rooting for the little guy no matter the circumstances, some mental fixation on a false pseudo-colonialism narrative, the distance of Israel that allows complacency regarding alarm sirens ringing out every night for rocket attacks, or buried strains of anti-Semitism, that leads to all this behavior.

    "When someone treats me poorly, it's ok to engage in terrorism".
    Oh and the word eventually assumes there was ever a time in the modern history when Palestinians/Arabs were not attacking Israel/Jews. Except there wasn't. And I'm not even talking about the time after the so called "occupation", and not even after the creation of Israel. Try a few decades before that.
    Theodarzna or Gaidax or someone observed how history of grievances always conveniently starts right when Israel is alleged to have done wrong. When you bring up history prior to 1948, or prior to whatever land dispute justified the current round of terrorism, they justify ignorance and dismiss it all.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  10. #2930
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fandis View Post
    First there was absolutely a "what's wrong with Hamas?" post in this thread, from one of the prominent "Palestinian supporters" of these forums. No, I'm not gonna go thru 150 pages to find you a link. More importantly however, every post that says "Hamas is bad but...they are doing it cause evil Israeli court decision" or "Hamas is bad but.... they are doing it cause evil Israeli police is trying to arrest some rioters hiding in a mosque" or "Hamas is bad but...blah blah blah someone is settling in your backyard" is not a post criticizing Hamas but rather a post defending Hamas, and those are the majority of posts I'm seeing here. Thinking there is ANY excuse for shelling civilian population centers with thousands of rockets = supporting terrorism.
    This is a framing that only makes sense if you only consider that one side must be "good" and the other "bad".

    One side being "bad" and the other side being "also bad" is absolutely a possibility.

    You're right that shelling civilian population centers with rockets is terrible. Israel does it too. Causing significantly more damage and fatalities in the process.

    Oh and the word eventually assumes there was ever a time in the modern history when Palestinians/Arabs were not attacking Israel/Jews. Except there wasn't. And I'm not even talking about the time after the so called "occupation", and not even after the creation of Israel. Try a few decades before that.
    Yeah, this is just an islamophobic lie. There was a fairly long stretch of history where Jewish peoples were fleeing medieval Europe and seeking sanctuary, successfully, in Muslim nations.


  11. #2931
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fandis View Post
    First there was absolutely a "what's wrong with Hamas?" post in this thread, from one of the prominent "Palestinian supporters" of these forums. No, I'm not gonna go thru 150 pages to find you a link.
    Source: "Trust me, bro."

    Pass.

    More importantly however, every post that says "Hamas is bad but...they are doing it cause evil Israeli court decision" or "Hamas is bad but.... they are doing it cause evil Israeli police is trying to arrest some rioters hiding in a mosque" or "Hamas is bad but...blah blah blah someone is settling in your backyard" is not a post criticizing Hamas but rather a post defending Hamas
    Explanation of motivation is not justification; versus the pro-Israel posters who, as said, not only try to justify it but pa

    Thinking there is ANY excuse for shelling civilian population centers with thousands of rockets = supporting terrorism.
    Good to know you've admitted Israel is engaging in terrorism as well.

    Many leftists so love trying to dehumanize Trump voters or Johnson voters or Le Pen voters or Netanyahu voters yet somehow have no problem with Hamas voters and don't think they are responsible for anything. Funny isn't it?
    Key difference is we aren't using our criticism of you lot to justify occupation of your lands and attacks against your civilian population.

    Really thought this was a clever analogy, didn't you?:

    Oh and the word eventually assumes there was ever a time in the modern history when Palestinians/Arabs were not attacking Israel/Jews. Except there wasn't. And I'm not even talking about the time after the so called "occupation", and not even after the creation of Israel. Try a few decades before that.
    Bruh, Jews literally had dhimmi protection. Why do you think so many of them settled in the Ottoman Empire after you lot expelled them from Europe?
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  12. #2932
    Stood in the Fire tehdang's Avatar
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    And in the conflict, I’d be remiss if I didn’t add my hearty congratulations to both parties in Congress for one billion dollars of Iron Dome funding for Israel. They are an important ally of the US and expended thousands of missiles defending their civilians from terrorist attack. The 420-9 vote of approval is an important signal to the world that the US stands with Israel, and that the issue rises above high partisan rancor currently dividing America.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  13. #2933
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    And in the conflict, I’d be remiss if I didn’t add my hearty congratulations to both parties in Congress for one billion dollars of Iron Dome funding for Israel.
    Nah, you're remiss for adding this nonsense.

    Sending a billion overseas to prop up an apartheid state that should be paying for its own security when the services and infrastructure in the US are at crisis levels is beyond irresponsible and a clear marker that y'all seem to care more about Israelis than your fellow Americans.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  14. #2934
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    And in the conflict, I’d be remiss if I didn’t add my hearty congratulations to both parties in Congress for one billion dollars of Iron Dome funding for Israel. They are an important ally of the US and expended thousands of missiles defending their civilians from terrorist attack. The 420-9 vote of approval is an important signal to the world that the US stands with Israel, and that the issue rises above high partisan rancor currently dividing America.
    Yep, glad to see that nonsense dealt with fast. Extra pleasure from seeing some seething in powerless rage.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  15. #2935
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Bruh, Jews literally had dhimmi protection. Why do you think so many of them settled in the Ottoman Empire after you lot expelled them from Europe?
    Pay tax and you may live... peacefully... most of the time...

    Had to be great!
    /s
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  16. #2936
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    And in the conflict, I’d be remiss if I didn’t add my hearty congratulations to both parties in Congress for one billion dollars of Iron Dome funding for Israel. They are an important ally of the US and expended thousands of missiles defending their civilians from terrorist attack. The 420-9 vote of approval is an important signal to the world that the US stands with Israel, and that the issue rises above high partisan rancor currently dividing America.
    Wait I thought welfare was bad? or it good when we giving it to rich countries? not that it matters that we give scraps to Israel but I am always baffled by people celebrating when we throw money down the drain like subsidies to oil companies.

  17. #2937
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Pay tax and you may live... peacefully... most of the time...
    Better than what was going on in Europe at the time.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  18. #2938
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Better than what was going on in Europe at the time.
    really showing their hand trying to downplay European pogroms.... yeah we need a Jewish state, over there, NOT HERE!

  19. #2939
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Yep, glad to see that nonsense dealt with fast. Extra pleasure from seeing some seething in powerless rage.
    Any particular reason you can't pay for your own defense? I thought Israel was a democracy with a prosperous economy? Israel is incapable of funding its own defense? If your country couldn't pass an infrastructure bill due to partisan hackery, despite those partisans rushing to spend billions on another countries defense in the middle of a pandemic, you'd be a little fucking miffed about it too.
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  20. #2940
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Yep, glad to see that nonsense dealt with fast. Extra pleasure from seeing some seething in powerless rage.
    Gloating about stealing other people's money is kind of gauche, tbh, especially if said people are in hardship.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

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