Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[JohnBrown1917]

Well to start of I do not care who is right, who is wrong, what is up or what is down.
To me might makes right. Nothing more to it.
.

Love how those with fascist dogwhistles somehow always seem to be the ones calling for genocide.

[Machismo]

Well to start of I do not care who is right, who is wrong, what is up or what is down.
To me might makes right. Nothing more to it.

Here the continued existence of either side proves an existential threat to the other.
I say just roll them over once and for all and be done with it.

End it, permanently in a matter of weeks. No more Palestine.
Dissplace 5.2M people, potentially take the lives of tens of thousands.
or
Do nothing and continue half assed meashures to have the conflict drag on for perpetuity.

And no, not arguing for genocide here either per say: the essence of what I feel like we have here is the train track dilemma.
Would you swap the tracks, you know nothing will stop this train, it will kill alot of people irregardless of your actions; but you can take drastic action. Action that will divert the train down a more frictionless path.
Or we could say take a short term hit for the long term positive.

It is abit of a strech to deem the conflict an existential threat to Israel currently, but only once you isolate it, if you take into account the larger picture it poses a very real threat (not that the other regional powers actually cares about the plight of the palesitinans, but as a cause for war and a propaganda instrument it works perfectly to divert attention from their own issues).

And lets not to forget that while these rockets shoot at israel are filled curde explosives for now, in the future; this may not be the case:
that is precisely what from the Israeli pov makes the whole situation rather unacceptable/ unsustainable for the long run.

So with that in mind their aim must be to crucify the opposition, not for what the have done, but for what they are capable of doing.
And dont pretend they wont, hamas will use any means they can. Once their current operations reveals itself to be as ineffective as it is for their cause; they will have no other course of action but to step it up a knoch.
This leaves no real option for the israeli side, they must declaw this threat.
Homo homini lupus est


“All courses of action are risky, so prudence is not in avoiding danger (it's impossible), but calculating risk and acting decisively. Make mistakes of ambition and not mistakes of sloth. Develop the strength to do bold things, not the strength to suffer.”
― N.M.

Anyway thats my 10cents il have the popcorn ready whatever the course of action, and may the right side win (somehow it always does)
ps seems like the show is just about to start tonight.

Nope, you are literally arguing for genocide.

You are literally arguing for ethnic cleansing.

That was a rather verbose defense of the Holocaust.

[downnola]

Nope, you are literally arguing for genocide.

You are literally arguing for ethnic cleansing.

That was a rather verbose defense of the Holocaust.

I always get a kick out of people arguing for a thing in one paragraph and thinking they can pull a fast one in the next by saying "don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ___."

Like yeah, actually, you just did. I can only imagine the level of gaslighting these people do in real life. FFS.

[Milchshake]

I always get a kick out of people arguing for a thing in one paragraph and thinking they can pull a fast one in the next by saying "don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ___."

Like yeah, actually, you just did. I can only imagine the level of gaslighting these people do in real life. FFS.

Im writing up a character for the next episode of Yellowstone. They're so toxic and miserable that even the family court judge notices and mentions it in the custody ruling.
Now they spend holidays and weekends shitposting on c level forums.

*Boss Dutton weeps as the sun sets on the mountains. If only this person had learned to ride a horse...

[downnola]

Im writing up a character for the next episode of Yellowstone. They're so toxic and miserable that even the family court judge notices and mentions it in the custody ruling.
Now they spend holidays and weekends shitposting on c level forums.

*Boss Dutton weeps as the sun sets on the mountains. If only this person had learned to ride a horse...

Make sure to add that some of their favorite topics are pointing out how Israel is just defending itself against jihadists, means testing welfare because freeloading is bad for the budget, and they're just asking questions about IQ test results between populations.

[Drutt]

To me might makes right. Nothing more to it.

You realise this is a fascist outlook, right?

[Nazerdam]

Defending themselves while "snipering kids".

https://twitter.com/EmpireFiles/stat...475825152?s=19

As this "meathead" wants to copy Nazi Germany rules.

https://twitter.com/YairNetanyahu/st...315379713?s=19

Israel is literally the Hitler's Dream come alive and strong.

[Endus]

You realise this is a fascist outlook, right?

For fun, ask them if this would be okay; someone sticks them in a cage and electroshocks them repeatedly until they finally admit, meaningfully and for real, that might does not make right.

If they really believe that might makes right, they'd have to be totally fine with the torture porn to deny that "truth". Or they don't actually believe that bullshit.

[Shadowferal]

The problem with the "might makes right" thing is that there's an element of truth to it. Without power there's no rule of law. And this plays out every day everywhere.

[downnola]

The problem with the "might makes right" thing is that there's an element of truth to it. Without power there's no rule of law. And this plays out every day everywhere.

Yes, you need a certain level of power, usually in the form of legitimacy, to uphold law. However, the idea that there is no such thing as law, but only power is extremely totalitarian at it's core. Alarm bells should ring when people start talking in that way.

[Endus]

The problem with the "might makes right" thing is that there's an element of truth to it. Without power there's no rule of law. And this plays out every day everywhere.

It's backwards. If you had to frame it, it's more like "right justifies might". In support of the "right" outcomes, use of force can be justified. That's why you can arrest and imprison a murderer; the "right" outcome is that they face consequences for murdering someone, and using force to ensure they do is thus justified.

But whether it's "right" comes before whether the use of force is justified. "Might is right" reverses that, and not even those who claim it actually believe that, they just don't want to be expected to justify what they see as "right".

[PC2]

Yes, you need a certain level of power, usually in the form of legitimacy, to uphold law. However, the idea that there is no such thing as law, but only power is extremely totalitarian at it's core. Alarm bells should ring when people start taking in that way.

I think the law is an attempt to model proper conduct/morality, where morality is defined by what is right verse wrong. So it seems "might makes right" is simply a denial that morality is real and determines what is right.

[Edge-]

I think the law is an attempt to model proper conduct/morality, where morality is defined by what is right verse wrong. So it seems "might makes right" is simply a denial that morality is real and determines what is right.

How does legalized slavery fit into this theory?

[PC2]

How does legalized slavery fit into this theory?

It means the people who legalized slavery are not modelling morality correctly. They don't agree that it's wrong to coerce people(slaves) into doing their bidding. Or it could be that they don't recognize another entity as a person which means it's justified to treat them more like a domesticated animal. There may be some genuinely evil slave masters who see their slaves as equals and just want to be evil, but usually Hanlon's Razor is more accurate, imo.

Slavery is largely gone and outlawed in the world so I'm not sure where this applies in modern times.

[Daedius]

Israel should be brought to the Hague for war crimes...

[Easo]

@Easo the "army" might be doing everything reasonable to limit casualties but it's not all that clear black and white, one thing however is for certain the political climate and the support of Jewish Orthodox extremists is a big reason why this is currently happening. So there's a reason there is this focus on Israel they are in my eyes also the antagonizer past events can have been different, but i find it is important to say that we can both find Hamas actions terrible and both find Israels actions terrible.

I always struggled with this idea that if i were to condemn one side i am suddenly absolving the other side of their actions.

Orthodoxals are... questionable in their support. There are bunch of them who basically do not believe that Israel should exist because it was not created by messiah (if I remember correctly) thereore the current country is illegitimate.

Is it really over a handful of squatters from the Jordanian conquest area, in a decade-long legal dispute? I mean, really? I’d say the overt cause is purely pretextual, in the sense that WW1 wasn’t really about a Serbian assassinating an Austrian.

You might find my wall of text about this some 10 or so pages ago. Of course this was just used as a pretext, there are lot of interested parties, chiefly Fatah and Hamas, and then Bibi and his party "representing" Israel as well.

Israel should be brought to the Hague for war crimes...

Just Israel?

[PC2]

Israel should be brought to the Hague for war crimes...

By what authority? Why wouldn't Palestine be prosecuted first? If Israel was occupied by Muslims who behaved in the same way then no one would be saying anything like that. The world is just jealous and envious of Jews and how they do relatively good compared to their neighbors.

[uuuhname]

The world is just jealous and envious of Jews and how they do relatively good compared to their neighbors.

you are absolutely out of your mind if this is what you think is going on.

really, not sure how many times it needs to be brought up that both sides have problems with human rights abuses but one side has way more dead bodies on their hands in the past 20 years than the other. care to take a guess which one?

[Machismo]

By what authority? Why wouldn't Palestine be prosecuted first? If Israel was occupied by Muslims who behaved in the same way then no one would be saying anything like that. The world is just jealous and envious of Jews and how they do relatively good compared to their neighbors.

Bullshit.

Why would anyone be jealous of Nazis and child murderers?

[Skulltaker]

Bullshit.

Why would anyone be jealous of Nazis and child murderers?

Other Nazis, that they are being out-Nazied?