1. #661
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    [Snipped]
    The landlord expected to be paid rent, and wasn't. And the Israeli Courts, you know those things you guys are saying was trying to oppress, genocide and ethnically cleanse the Arabs ruled the Arab families could not be evicted unless they just didn't pay rent. And even then this same court system has been letting these guys live rent free for decades. I wonder when that bit gets mentioned.

    Also, they didn't own the buildings, they didn't have a title deed at all? How on Earth do they own something without ever having bought it? Plus they agreed it was the property of the title holder? What are you on man?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Targetting a journalist workplace vs. Targetting Hamas that are hiding in a journalist work place.

    See, the difference is pretty clear and not semantic at all. What you're not accepting is that Israel doesn't think the journalists matter enough to warrant ignoring a military objective. Now, I agree that it's debatable if that's ethical or not. In the past Israeli commanders have refused to give orders to bomb civilian buildings. Others have not. It's complicated. What it's not is as black/white as you paint it here. And certainly the intent is not to disrupt international media coverage.
    show some evidence Hamas were using it. AP issued a statement saying there was no Hamas presence because if there was they wouldn't have their journalists working there. the videos are just guys getting all their cameras out. Its complete BS.

  3. #663
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    historic Palestine in 1948
    Historic Palestine? That province of Syria in the Ottoman administrative bureaucracy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Do most people also use their houses for military operations? Rhetorical question, of course.
    When their resistance is illegal and underground? Yes. You can't land a plane in Gaza, you'd have trouble landing a helicoptor. Palestinians are not allowed to have military or military bases. Their very resistance is illegal, and the Israeli response is that Palestinians should just shut up and accept the occupation and settlement.

    Now, unless you agree with the Israeli position that they have the absolute right to do whatever they want to these people (which would be rather fashy and authoritarian), you certainly can see that the Palestinian people have a right to defend themselves. They've had that right for 73 years. And they are fighting an underground, guerilla war, out of their own homes, because they have no military and aren't allowed one, and because technologically they are far outstripped as Israel is a legitimate military superpower made by the West, including and up to the U.S. illegally making them a nuclear superpower.

    So yes, Hamas fights from civilians locations - because Hamas lives among the civilians.

    Please keep in mind that the last 25 years of this conflict is because of Israeli hardliners. Hamas tried to be a political organization. Hezbollah and the PLO agreed to a course of action during the Oslo Accords in '95. Hardliners like Netanyahu rejected it, and literally assassinated the moderate Israeli PM (Rabin) who negotiated Oslo, and installed Netanyahu for his first stint at PM, during which he broke the Oslo Accords. And that led to the Second Intifada, and so on, and so forth, and Hamas abandoned a political solution, infilitrating Hezbollah and essentially making it what it is today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Historic Palestine? That province of Syria in the Ottoman administrative bureaucracy?
    Why was the Ottoman Empire made a British Protectorate.....but the German Empire, who lost the same war, still operated under non-democratic norms, who promulgated the same war (WW1) that led to the end of the Ottoman Empire, allowed to simply continue to be Germany?

    Could it have anything to do with racism and Islamaphobia, and seeing the people who lived in these areas as less than human?

    I think it might be.

  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Historic Palestine? That province of Syria in the Ottoman administrative bureaucracy?
    what?????

  6. #666
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    When their resistance is illegal and underground? Yes. You can't land a plane in Gaza, you'd have trouble landing a helicoptor. Palestinians are not allowed to have military or military bases. Their very resistance is illegal, and the Israeli response is that Palestinians should just shut up and accept the occupation and settlement.

    Now, unless you agree with the Israeli position that they have the absolute right to do whatever they want to these people (which would be rather fashy and authoritarian), you certainly can see that the Palestinian people have a right to defend themselves. They've had that right for 73 years. And they are fighting an underground, guerilla war, out of their own homes, because they have no military and aren't allowed one, and because technologically they are far outstripped as Israel is a legitimate military superpower made by the West, including and up to the U.S. illegally making them a nuclear superpower.

    So yes, Hamas fights from civilians locations - because Hamas lives among the civilians.

    Please keep in mind that the last 25 years of this conflict is because of Israeli hardliners. Hamas tried to be a political organization. Hezbollah and the PLO agreed to a course of action during the Oslo Accords in '95. Hardliners like Netanyahu rejected it, and literally assassinated the moderate Israeli PM (Rabin) who negotiated Oslo, and installed Netanyahu for his first stint at PM, during which he broke the Oslo Accords. And that led to the Second Intifada, and so on, and so forth, and Hamas abandoned a political solution, infilitrating Hezbollah and essentially making it what it is today.
    How convenient, every action by the Arabs is entirely justified and if you so much as sneeze at them the wrong way its a Hauge worthy atrocity, But if they say behead a toddle lets call him Hadas Fogel as a random non-specific name of a theoretical Israeli toddler, its not a war crime. Infact trying to stop that is the real attrocity. How convenient for the Arabs in this conflict, Heads I win, Tails you lose.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Why was the Ottoman Empire made a British Protectorate.....but the German Empire, who lost the same war, still operated under non-democratic norms, who promulgated the same war (WW1) that led to the end of the Ottoman Empire, allowed to simply continue to be Germany?

    Could it have anything to do with racism and Islamaphobia, and seeing the people who lived in these areas as less than human?

    I think it might be.
    Might want to file your complaint with the Ottomans, specifically the Ottoman land lord that sold these four houses to a Jew (Which I've now learned is a serious War crime apparently) in 1875.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post



    Might want to file your complaint with the Ottomans, specifically the Ottoman land lord that sold these four houses to a Jew (Which I've now learned is a serious War crime apparently) in 1875.
    the people living in Sheikh Jarrah often have deeds from the British mandate. Its a common problem as i eluded too ages ago of 2 deeds on houses then the courts rule in favor of the settlers because of the for mentioned reasons. in 1980 the 80% of property claims had 2 deeds on them for instance.

  8. #668
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    the people living in Sheikh Jarrah often have deeds from the British mandate. Its a common problem as i eluded too ages ago of 2 deeds on houses then the courts rule in favor of the settlers because of the for mentioned reasons. in 1980 the 80% of property claims had 2 deeds on them for instance.
    Cool, I'm talking about these four houses that are facing eviction, you know the actual court case. Nobody has contested the legitimacy of this deed to these four houses.

    Unless we are operating under the guise of "Any Jew who claims to buy land is a shyster, swindler and a fraud" kind of logic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post

    Unless we are operating under the guise of "Any Jew who claims to buy land is a shyster, swindler and a fraud" kind of logic.
    why are your strawmans so fucking racist

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    When their resistance is illegal and underground?
    They (Hamas, Islamic Jihad, minor groups) are not defending themselves. While it is not even worth mentioning that they started launching rockets first during this round of fighting they have not been defending themselves for a long, long time, when they deliberately started their attempts at killing Jewish civilians. Those rockets are rarely launched at military objects. Sderot and Ashkelon definitely are not such, for example.
    Need to be reminded of their charter? Oh, right, it is "outdated and no longer in force". Surely.

    That is a nice story. I could tell you story about Arafat, the man, the symbol, who died filthy rich, but I am affraid the point would be lost. But if you want to, keep blaming Israel for failing the 2 state solution. I will blame the opposite side, whose leadership were never really interested in it in the first place, it was much better to receive all that sweet sweet foreign aid money from the gullible suckers. When you go to negotiations you do not demand 100% or nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  11. #671
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    And you think it's a legit war tactic to hide between civilians? I get what you're saying, but you're very one-sided in your argument here.
    Here's the issue.

    Hamas acts badly by using human shields.

    Israel acts badly in response by targeting the human shields to get to Hamas.

    The second is worse than the former. It's the cause of the most innocent deaths in the region. So I would rather end the biggest threat to peace first. I do not in any way support Hamas' actions, here, but they're the lesser of two evils in this instance. We can get around to dealing with that when we've dealt with the bigger problem.

    I'm also fine with simultaneous solutions, but not hand-waving Israel's war crimes and body count just because Hamas aren't innocent either. Israel first, Hamas second, fine. Israel and Hamas both stood down, fine. Focusing on Hamas and ignoring Israel's actions? Not fucking fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Targetting a journalist workplace vs. Targetting Hamas that are hiding in a journalist work place.
    There is no indication that Hamas was in the building to begin with. And see above; targeting innocents to get at Hamas is not fucking okay. If your response to an enemy saying "I have a hostage" is to shoot their hostage in the face, you're not the good guy and your actions are not defensible.

    See, the differene is pretty clear and not semantic at all. What you're not accepting is that Israel doesn't think the journalists matter enough to warrant ignoring a military objective. Now, I agree that it's debatable if that's ethical or not. In the past Israeli commanders have refused to give orders to bomb civilian buildings. Others have not. It's complicated. What it's not is as black/white as you paint it here. And certainly the intent is not to disrupt international media coverage.
    What possible other intent could there have been? There was no military target. The only target was the journalists.

  12. #672
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    why are your strawmans so fucking racist
    I work with what you guys have to give me here. So far you guys are just saying "You know a lot of these deeds are suspect" and I'm asking "Well is this one?" followed by "Is any Jewish person legitimately able to buy and own things in that region or is every Jewish title holder fraudulent".

    Also, why am I, the person you frequently call "Third Positionist" for the sin of not supporting the CIA, the only one defending the idea that indeed a Jewish person has the right to purchase land and have that title deed respected the same as anyone else and that racism shouldn't play a role in if you have to pay rent to a building owner or not?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  13. #673
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Cool, I'm talking about these four houses that are facing eviction, you know the actual court case. Nobody has contested the legitimacy of this deed to these four houses.
    This is also a lie.

    The Palestinians living there contested those deeds.

    Unless we are operating under the guise of "Any Jew who claims to buy land is a shyster, swindler and a fraud" kind of logic.
    Man, using anti-semitic slurs in your attempt to "defend" Jewish Israelis is certainly . . . something.

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There is no indication that Hamas was in the building to begin with. And see above; targeting innocents to get at Hamas is not fucking okay. If your response to an enemy saying "I have a hostage" is to shoot their hostage in the face, you're not the good guy and your actions are not defensible.
    cmon endus you know how rich Hamas are, they seem to have rented office space in every building the IDF hit!

  15. #675
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Do most people also use their houses for military operations? Rhetorical question, of course.
    So Hamas was right in bombing anywhere in Israel due to the fact Israelis routinely have military working out of residential buildings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  16. #676
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    So Hamas was right in bombing anywhere in Israel due to the fact Israelis routinely have military working out of residential buildings.
    I mean it certainly would be equitable, given Hamas' official stance is to target the entire country and every citizen of it. Maybe that is what you guys mean by proportional. I mean if the entire Israeli population is fair game as it seems people here are arguing they are; and somehow those actions are not war crimes, human rights abuses or atrocities of any significance, definitely not anything anyone around here gets animated about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    cmon endus you know how rich Hamas are, they seem to have rented office space in every building the IDF hit!
    They own all the rocks !

  18. #678
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I mean it certainly would be equitable, given Hamas' official stance is to target the entire country and every citizen of it. Maybe that is what you guys mean by proportional. I mean if the entire Israeli population is fair game as it seems people here are arguing they are; and somehow those actions are not war crimes, human rights abuses or atrocities of any significance, definitely not anything anyone around here gets animated about.
    You seem super confused about what we are talking about... why are you a zionist?

    Did you think manifest destiny was totally rad?

    Last edited by Themius; 2021-05-15 at 08:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    i mean it is targeting journalists. blowing up their offices is pretty hard targeting.
    It's not targeting the journalists. It's targeting buildings housing their offices and other things.

    Was it targeted because of the media presence there? Maybe - Maybe not; but the journalists themselves were objectively not targeted.

  20. #680
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    It's not targeting the journalists. It's targeting buildings housing their offices and other things.

    Was it targeted because of the media presence there? Maybe - Maybe not; but the journalists themselves were objectively not targeted.
    No, just destroying everything they need[on purpose] to record whats going in gaza, very normal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

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