1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Blowing up a TV station's offices and broadcast center is targeting journalists.
    No, it's targeting a building - when you call it "targeting journalists" you are helping Hamas and Netanyahu to escalate the conflict.

    Is it plausible that Hamas also used that building? Yes, as it is a high building with a good view - which is ideal for both journalists and the military.
    Is it also plausible that Israel did it to reduce media coverage? Yes.

  2. #682
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    No, it's targeting a building - when you call it "targeting journalists" you are helping Hamas and Netanyahu to escalate the conflict.

    Is it plausible that Hamas also used that building? Yes, as it is a high building with a good view - which is ideal for both journalists and the military.
    Is it also plausible that Israel did it to reduce media coverage? Yes.

    This is all on Netanyahu for bombing that building.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  3. #683
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    You seem super confused about what we are talking about... why are you a zionist?

    Did you think manifest destiny was totally rad?

    [...]
    Did Americans buy land from people who equally had the same concept of land ownership? Or are we ignoring that the Middle East invented the idea of buying and owning parcels of dirt and role-playing that the Arabs are inexplicably like an analog of Native Americans or something. Like, what are you claiming here?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  4. #684
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    No, it's targeting a building - when you call it "targeting journalists" you are helping Hamas and Netanyahu to escalate the conflict.
    I really don't know why you're bending over backwards to try and claim that bomb threats followed by detonation is somehow not "targeting" those in the building, just because they were given a chance to flee due to the threat being made.

    You wouldn't apply that standard to any other circumstance. And in this case, given that the work of the journalists is directly tied to their offices and resources, which were targeted and destroyed, it's even more ridiculous an argument.

    Is it plausible that Hamas also used that building? Yes, as it is a high building with a good view - which is ideal for both journalists and the military.
    "Plausible" means "I'm making it up based on nothing because I wanna blow that building up for other reasons". It means you do not have a grounded justification.

    Not that I agree there could even be such a justification. Because, again, shooting at the hostages makes you the bad guy.

  5. #685
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    No, it's targeting a building - when you call it "targeting journalists" you are helping Hamas and Netanyahu to escalate the conflict.

    Is it plausible that Hamas also used that building? Yes, as it is a high building with a good view - which is ideal for both journalists and the military.
    Is it also plausible that Israel did it to reduce media coverage? Yes.
    so you gonna blast down every building over 3 stories because a Hamas guy might have been there with a pair of binoculars at one moment in time, or might not of been there at all given there was no evidence of it being used in this case?

  6. #686
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    They (Hamas, Islamic Jihad, minor groups) are not defending themselves. While it is not even worth mentioning that they started launching rockets first during this round of fighting they have not been defending themselves for a long, long time, when they deliberately started their attempts at killing Jewish civilians. Those rockets are rarely launched at military objects. Sderot and Ashkelon definitely are not such, for example.
    Need to be reminded of their charter? Oh, right, it is "outdated and no longer in force". Surely.

    That is a nice story. I could tell you story about Arafat, the man, the symbol, who died filthy rich, but I am affraid the point would be lost. But if you want to, keep blaming Israel for failing the 2 state solution. I will blame the opposite side, whose leadership were never really interested in it in the first place, it was much better to receive all that sweet sweet foreign aid money from the gullible suckers. When you go to negotiations you do not demand 100% or nothing.
    A) They did not launch first, in this particular conflict. Israel literally raided the 3rd most holy site in Islam, al-Aqsa, injuring hundreds and beating them up.
    B) They fire "indiscriminately" because they're using 1960s Soviet rocket tech, which doesn't allow them to aim with any degree of accuracy. I'm sure they'd love to be able to aim at IDF. Doesn't matter, I guess, that 99% of those rockets are shot down by an AAF system provided by the West, but even if they let every single rocket fly, the vast, vast majority of them would fall short of hitting anything Israeli. These aren't ICBMs, these are glorified grenade launchers.
    C) your knowledge of history is......bonkers bad. Arafat was not a perfect man. Hamas has definitely commited acts of terror, as Theo pointed out above. They're not perfect. But Israeli hardliners started this past 25 years off, and now we're heading towards a Third Intifada, which I'm sure will be conveniently blamed and put at the feet of the Palestinians living desperate lives in an apartheid state.

  7. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    So Hamas was right in bombing anywhere in Israel due to the fact Israelis routinely have military working out of residential buildings.
    You are trying too hard to reach.

    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    A) They did not launch first, in this particular conflict. Israel literally raided the 3rd most holy site in Islam, al-Aqsa, injuring hundreds and beating them up.
    B) They fire "indiscriminately" because they're using 1960s Soviet rocket tech, which doesn't allow them to aim with any degree of accuracy. I'm sure they'd love to be able to aim at IDF. Doesn't matter, I guess, that 99% of those rockets are shot down by an AAF system provided by the West, but even if they let every single rocket fly, the vast, vast majority of them would fall short of hitting anything Israeli. These aren't ICBMs, these are glorified grenade launchers.
    C) your knowledge of history is......bonkers bad. Arafat was not a perfect man. Hamas has definitely commited acts of terror, as Theo pointed out above. They're not perfect. But Israeli hardliners started this past 25 years off, and now we're heading towards a Third Intifada, which I'm sure will be conveniently blamed and put at the feet of the Palestinians living desperate lives in an apartheid state.
    1. They did launch the rockets first. If you think that it is ok in response to basically riots... Also, in your place I would wonder about role Abbas played in them and why, but alright, comments are pointless if rocket attacks are OK for that in your opinion.

    2. You really should keep up with the news. Ranges and precision has been increasing, the Qassam sewer pipes now are far from the only rockets they have. You can go and thank Iran and some others for that, Hamas are now targetting even Haifa regularly (take a look at map), not to mention Tel Aviv. Your "being sure" is what is actually bonkers, if you think Hamas actualy wants to target IDF only.
    There has been at least 2600 launches now. IDF estimates around 40% of them needed interception, so at least 1k+ would have hit actual places with people. The official efficiency of Iron Dome is 90%. The last 24+ hours have been especially harsh with rockets getting past in increasing quantities (Israel is possibly running out of interceptors and/or batteries are starting to fail from wear and tear + plus it is clear massed launches can overwhelm it). You are crazy if you think that 1k+ nonintercepted rockets would be nothing. And no, Iron Dome is not provided by West, it is a domestic product.

    I have always loved the "but the Israel is technologically superior, so it is fine" angle xD. Future is looking bleak, there are reasonable speculations that things like primitive GPS guidance are just a question of time.

    3. Yes yes, it is fault of Israel. Of course.
    Last edited by Easo; 2021-05-15 at 09:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  8. #688
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I work with what you guys have to give me here. So far you guys are just saying "You know a lot of these deeds are suspect" and I'm asking "Well is this one?" followed by "Is any Jewish person legitimately able to buy and own things in that region or is every Jewish title holder fraudulent".

    Also, why am I, the person you frequently call "Third Positionist" for the sin of not supporting the CIA, the only one defending the idea that indeed a Jewish person has the right to purchase land and have that title deed respected the same as anyone else and that racism shouldn't play a role in if you have to pay rent to a building owner or not?
    No one here is saying beheading a toddler is an okay or justified act.

    What we are saying is that the atrocities committed against Palestinians are not okay, and because they don't have the resources or the rights, you can see why they become terrorists.

    Yanno, like Iraq and ISIS. ISIS isn't good - but you can easily see how we caused ISIS, and why Iraqis would join ISIS.

    Or, yanno, black/brown Americans joining gangs. You can easily say "gangs are bad" (and they are), but the larger social context explains why people join gangs. And they're less culpable, imo, than the people who forced them into the situation that a gang was their only feasible option if they couldn't play sports. I mean, you supposedly support BLM and racial equality - it's the same fucking argument.

  9. #689
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    No one here is saying beheading a toddler is an okay or justified act.

    What we are saying is that the atrocities committed against Palestinians are not okay, and because they don't have the resources or the rights, you can see why they become terrorists.

    Yanno, like Iraq and ISIS. ISIS isn't good - but you can easily see how we caused ISIS, and why Iraqis would join ISIS.

    Or, yanno, black/brown Americans joining gangs. You can easily say "gangs are bad" (and they are), but the larger social context explains why people join gangs. And they're less culpable, imo, than the people who forced them into the situation that a gang was their only feasible option if they couldn't play sports. I mean, you supposedly support BLM and racial equality - it's the same fucking argument.
    Sure, it's not okay, its not a war crime though like serving an eviction notice for unpaid rent, that is my point. It's ethnic cleansing to ask someone to pay rent or leave a building, but its not ethnic cleansing to murder an entire family of a different race.... not evict, murder, make dead.

    And gee, you sure are understanding of the beheading of a toddler, but not of the Jewish person holding a title deed legitimately acquired by all accounts well before Israel even existed, or of Any Jewish person living there's desire to not get murdered like that. When that State there tries to do ANYTHING to protect that civilian population which includes Bedouin Arabs, Muslim and Christians and Druze whom all equally can buy and sell dirt to one another and even charge each other rent and expect to be paid, there seems to be NO legitimate way for that state to ever protect its people from that sort of attack. And again, Hamas' only position is "Israel must be annihilated" I.E. Israel gets the Carthage treatment. So what is supposed to happen? Does the title holder just lose the thing that was by all accounts bought legitimately because the indignity these families feel at having to pay rent to a person of a different community is just too offensive to the Arabs sense of hierarchy and who belongs in what station? Maybe we can compromise and say "You may evict but you may only rent to Arabs"?

    So while you believe these actions are bad, you understand them. You can get where it comes from. But for Israeli's, nope they are I guess all acting with pure unending malicious cruelty. Despite the Israeli court (Allegedly a veritable Mordor of darkness and desire to genocide) letting those families live rent free for decades and granting them protected status and forcing the landlord to spend decades in court trying to collect rent or get the right to evict these families. It is strange how one sided your understanding and ability to see nuance is. One side to you, gets the benefit of nuance and understanding, the other, none. I am curious why?
    Last edited by Theodarzna; 2021-05-15 at 09:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  10. #690
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Targetting a journalist workplace vs. Targetting Hamas that are hiding in a journalist work place.

    See, the differene is pretty clear and not semantic at all. What you're not accepting is that Israel doesn't think the journalists matter enough to warrant ignoring a military objective. Now, I agree that it's debatable if that's ethical or not. In the past Israeli commanders have refused to give orders to bomb civilian buildings. Others have not. It's complicated. What it's not is as black/white as you paint it here. And certainly the intent is not to disrupt international media coverage.
    You have not a single freaking clue that was true. It is just IDF bllsht trying to justify their ethnic cleansing.

  11. #691
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    You are trying too hard to reach.
    How is this a reach?

    You claim it is okay to bomb civilian areas because Hamas is among them... so then it is okay for Hamas to bomb civilian areas because Israeli military is among them...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    It's not targeting the journalists. It's targeting buildings housing their offices and other things.

    Was it targeted because of the media presence there? Maybe - Maybe not; but the journalists themselves were objectively not targeted.
    The journalist themselves say Hamas wasn't there...

    Remember when IDF sniped a medic for helping a man who had been hit in the face with a tea gas canister? Remember the paramedics were 20 to 100 metres away from the IDF and wore clothes to show who they were...
    Last edited by Themius; 2021-05-15 at 09:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  12. #692
    The IDF are very untrustworthy. They are just as trustworthy as American Cops after they turn off their bodycams.

  13. #693
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's . . . literally targeting journalists.
    But they gave them time to evacuate!

  14. #694
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chelly View Post
    The IDF are very untrustworthy. They are just as trustworthy as American Cops after they turn off their bodycams.
    You could have stopped at:

    "They are just as trustworthy as American(s)" specifically anything government related
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  15. #695
    I'd love to see some honesty about this for once. What we all already know. They don't want Palestinians to exist within the country's border. If they all leave then great. If they all die then even better. That's what they've been working toward all these years. No shit people like Hamas fight back and turn radical. What the fuck would any sane person expect to happen?

    The only reason why Palestinians are even still there at all is because Israel isn't as good at this (or as untouchable) as China. Otherwise the Palestinians would have all been made sterile and organ harvested by now.
    Last edited by Blur4stuff; 2021-05-15 at 10:07 PM.

  16. #696
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    But they gave them time to evacuate!
    After what happened a few years ago where they told people to evacuate to a specific area, to then just bomb that area... which led to one man losing his wife and children... I don't trust much of it.
    Last edited by Themius; 2021-05-15 at 10:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  17. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    How is this a reach?
    Which part of military operations did you not understand? IDF is not sitting at their homes and making bombs there. I cannot make this more simpler for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  18. #698
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Which part of military operations did you not understand? IDF is not sitting at their homes and making bombs there. I cannot make this more simpler for you.
    IDF are there carrying out operations and communication and strategy.

    They are sitting in those residential areas plotting attacks against the Palestinians.

    Also why did you say " not sitting in their homes"

    Who said they were in their "homes" some of them live there absolutely but there are military specific buildings among residential ones. I thought that was clear, why alter what was said?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  19. #699
    Banned PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    I'd love to see some honesty about this for once. What we all already know. They don't want Palestinians to exist within the country's border. If they all leave then great. If they all die then even better. That's what they've been working toward all these years. No shit people like Hamas fight back and turn radical. What the fuck would any sane person expect to happen?

    The only reason why Palestinians are even still there at all is because Israel isn't as good at this (or as untouchable) as China. Otherwise the Palestinians would have all been made sterile and organ harvested by now.
    That's not true. How many Israelis have you listened to and got feedback from? Most Israelis don't want to banish or kill Palestinians and Arab Israeli citizens. They want peaceful co-existence. It's only a minority of extremists who want ethnic cleansing.
    Last edited by PC2; 2021-05-15 at 10:25 PM.

  20. #700
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I really don't know why you're bending over backwards to try and claim that bomb threats followed by detonation is somehow not "targeting" those in the building, just because they were given a chance to flee due to the threat being made.
    I really don't know why you're bending over backwards to try and claim that targeting a building - is targeting journalists.

    The difference isn't just minor semantics - but major, as targeting civilians, like journalists, is not allowed - whereas buildings are a different matter.

    High buildings with a good view seems like something with an obvious military usefulness.

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