1. #741
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Agreed. (sigh) I hope something stronger is being said behind the scenes, at least.
    Not sure the US is on the driving seat when it comes down to US/Israel relationship.

  2. #742
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    It was an attack to the building that has been hosting journalists for the past 11 years.
    What is your point?

    Was it an attack on journalists as some falsely claimed? No, they were warned ahead of time.
    Do buildings hosting journalists have some special protection in war? No, that's only for civilian hospitals and some other buildings.

    Those are my points. I don't know if the Israeli claim that Hamas used the building are accurate or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    Why you keep trying to justify it goes beyond us all.
    Why you keep focusing on that attack is beyond most of us.

  3. #743
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    What is your point?

    Was it an attack on journalists as some falsely claimed? No, they were warned ahead of time.
    Do buildings hosting journalists have some special protection in war? No, that's only for civilian hospitals and some other buildings.

    Those are my points. I don't know if the Israeli claim that Hamas used the building are accurate or not.


    Why you keep focusing on that attack is beyond most of us.
    Your claims are false and based on misinformation. It's literally as simple as that. Every single agency has condemned this. Everyone, but Forogil.

  4. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    Not sure the US is on the driving seat when it comes down to US/Israel relationship.
    Domestic politics are the main driver Bibi wanting to stay out of jail.

  5. #745
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Domestic politics are the main driver Bibi wanting to stay out of jail.
    Absolutely. The damage Netanyahu has done to his own country is beyond appalling. I'm not sure many people understand that Israel is running head straight into civil war.

  6. #746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    What is your point?

    Was it an attack on journalists as some falsely claimed? No, they were warned ahead of time.
    Do buildings hosting journalists have some special protection in war? No, that's only for civilian hospitals and some other buildings.
    Then I'm sure you'll agree that the arguments against the Hamas rocket attacks are overblown, too, right? That those rocket attacks are just fine, because they're "just targeting buildings" as well, not people? And attacking civilian buildings is totally fine, in your perspective.

    Right?

    Or have you been talking out your entire ass the whole time?


  7. #747
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It was an attack on the media itself.
    First and foremost that wasn't the original claim.

    But great that we have moved on from the false claim that it was an attack on journalists (which would have been bad), and now focus on whether it was an attack on media.

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It was a civilian target. That's like saying blowing up a water treatment plant, isn't a civilian target. "We didn't kill people, we merely destroyed the water they wanted to drink."
    Misleading comparison again. Targeting civilian hospitals and some other things is bad - and as far as I can see water treatment plants are among those special targets.

    But buildings with media companies aren't among them - they are just normal civilian buildings and targeting them isn't ideal - but certainly not as bad targeting civilians, or specially protected buildings like civilian hospitals and water treatment plants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You are continuously trying to defend a really, really shitty action.
    You are continuously confusing really shitty action (like attacking a water treatment plant) with an attack on a building that housed media, residentials - and possibly was used by Hamas.

    I don't understand why you are that confused and focus all the attention on that.

  8. #748
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    Absolutely. The damage Netanyahu has done to his own country is beyond appalling. I'm not sure many people understand that Israel is running head straight into civil war.
    Yeah, no. Considering Arabs are ~20% of population, have almost zero presence in armed forces, against Jews of whom majority have served (remember, mandatory draft, including women) + high level of patriotism it would make for a very onesided war. At most, West Bank might try to do something, but I can't see it mattering.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  9. #749
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Then I'm sure you'll agree that the arguments against the Hamas rocket attacks are overblown, too, right? That those rocket attacks are just fine, because they're "just targeting buildings" as well, not people?
    The Israeli targeted a building that people had left; you are comparing that with rockets in the general direction of cities comprised of buildings with people inside - which is a different issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And attacking civilian buildings is totally fine, in your perspective.
    I never stated that it was totally fine, only that it is lot let less bad than attacking civilians, or hospitals etc.

    And if you only want to complain about bombing civilian building the fact that there were media companies in the building is irrelevant.
    Last edited by Forogil; 2021-05-16 at 04:26 PM.

  10. #750
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Yeah, no. Considering Arabs are ~20% of population, have almost zero presence in armed forces, against Jews of whom majority have served (remember, mandatory draft, including women) + high level of patriotism it would make for a very onesided war. At most, West Bank might try to do something, but I can't see it mattering.
    It's not the Arabs. It's the right wing extremists in Israel. Ultra orthodox and just simply ultra right wingers.

  11. #751
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    It's not the Arabs. It's the right wing extremists in Israel. Ultra orthodox and just simply ultra right wingers.
    Benjamin Netanyahu is a literal holocaust revisionist. he and his government are no better than apartheid South Africa but even more brazen with their fascist beliefs.

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    Absolutely. The damage Netanyahu has done to his own country is beyond appalling. I'm not sure many people understand that Israel is running head straight into civil war.
    A civil war within Israel...there's an idea.
    While I don't believe that's happening, I do believe that Netanyahu will do whatever he can to stay out of jail and stay in power.

  13. #753
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    What is your point?

    Was it an attack on journalists as some falsely claimed? No, they were warned ahead of time.
    Do buildings hosting journalists have some special protection in war? No, that's only for civilian hospitals and some other buildings.

    Those are my points. I don't know if the Israeli claim that Hamas used the building are accurate or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    Your claims are false and based on misinformation.
    You haven't found a single piece of falsehood in my statements, but just hand-wave "misinformation".

  14. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    The Israeli targeted a building that people had left; you are comparing that with rockets in the general direction of cities comprised of buildings with people inside - which is a different issue.
    Given that the Israeli attacks are killing innocent people, you're just ignoring the facts, here.

    In fact, the Israeli attacks are significantly more deadly than Hamas' attacks, in terms of innocent civilian lives. And children, specifically, to boot.

    And yet, you're defending the Israeli attacks, but not defending Hamas'.

    I never stated that it was totally fine, only that it is lot let less bad attacking civilians, or hospitals etc.
    Attacking civilian buildings is attacking civilian populations.

    Particularly when there are deaths connected to those attacks.

    55 Palestinian children killed by Israel in the last week.

    And if you only want to complain about bombing civilian building the fact that there were media companies in the building is irrelevant.
    No, I want to point out that the building was selected to silence journalists reporting on the events, because their reporting put Israel's actions in a bad light.


  15. #755
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    A civil war within Israel...there's an idea.
    While I don't believe that's happening, I do believe that Netanyahu will do whatever he can to stay out of jail and stay in power.
    And that's the point. I mean relations withing social parts in Israel are already tense. Ultra orthodox are not an easy bunch to deal with. Once these people are told to stop they're literally going to go "nope".

  16. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    It's not the Arabs. It's the right wing extremists in Israel. Ultra orthodox and just simply ultra right wingers.
    I literally do not see a base for it. Why would they want that? Haredis do not even serve in military at all. Everyone was going on about clashes of Jews vs Arabs potentially going that way, not the fringe groups.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  17. #757
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Given that the Israeli attacks are killing innocent people, you're just ignoring the facts, here.
    As far as I understand those are other Israeli attacks.

    I don't know why you ignored them and focused on the attacks on a building with media companies, and false claimed that the media building attack was an attack on journalists; or why others saw it an attack comparable to an attack on protected buildings like civilian hospitals and water treatment plants.

    If you want to complain about targeting or at least not avoiding civilian Palestinians do that - even if they aren't as news-savvy as journalists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    No, I want to point out that the building was selected to silence journalists reporting on the events, because their reporting put Israel's actions in a bad light.
    I don't know about the motives, and I find that explanation too simpleminded. What makes you so convinced that you know the exact reason?

    Remember that Israel seem to have used more advanced deceptions during this war - including using the media to trick Hamas fighters into a trap.

  18. #758
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    I literally do not see a base for it. Why would they want that? Haredis do not even serve in military at all. Everyone was going on about clashes of Jews vs Arabs potentially going that way, not the fringe groups.
    Look into it if you have time. The situation is really tense.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...-now-1.9500059

    "For 40 years, Israel has allowed a radical separatism, fed by political extortion and impunity, to flourish. That Haredi sedition, empowered by its blatant defiance of COVID rules, is now a danger to the Jewish state"
    Last edited by Cringefest; 2021-05-16 at 05:00 PM.

  19. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    Look into it if you have time. Relationships are really tense.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...-now-1.9500059

    "For 40 years, Israel has allowed a radical separatism, fed by political extortion and impunity, to flourish. That Haredi sedition, empowered by its blatant defiance of COVID rules, is now a danger to the Jewish state"
    Indeed, it is important to note here and due to generalisations it does not happen that we are not speaking of all Jews here in support of these aggressive actions (with that i mean the land grab and evicting of Palestinians) not even all Jews in Israel, it's a group of extremists, religious extremists the kind that finds everyone not them lesser beings. Sadly they have gotten more and more power for several reasons, radicalization happening on both ends is going to spell bad news for that entire region.

    Every scenario i can think of means bad news for all those living there, where as they think if they get more power they'll end up getting a better situation for them. That region has always been a time bomb but seems the last years things are speeding up.
    “My philosophy is: It’s none of my business what people say of me and think of me. I am what I am and I do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. And it makes life so much easier.
    ― Anthony Hopkins

  20. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    As far as I understand those are other Israeli attacks.

    I don't know why you ignored them and focused on the attacks on a building with media companies, and false claimed that the media building attack was an attack on journalists; or why others saw it an attack comparable to an attack on protected buildings like civilian hospitals and water treatment plants.

    If you want to complain about targeting or at least not avoiding civilian Palestinians do that - even if they aren't as news-savvy as journalists.
    An attack on a media building is an attack on journalists. I have no idea why you keep insisting otherwise. An attack on journalists' capacity to do their jobs and broadcast for distribution is an attack on journalists. Whether they were personally injured or killed is not the only factor to be considered.

    It's the same way that police smashing a journalist's camera to destroy evidence of their bad conduct is an attack on the journalist who was carrying it. It's a distinction without meaning.

    As for the rest; you're just lying out your ass because I've spent plenty of time in this thread attacking Israel's penchant for slaughtering Palestinian civilians and children.

    I don't know about the motives, and I find that explanation too simpleminded. What makes you so convinced that you know the exact reason?
    That there is no other reason presented other than Israel's completely unsupported claim that there was a super secret Hamas intelligence office in the building that nobody else in the building knew about.

    I have no reason to believe the word of a murderous regime that has repeatedly and consistently lied in the past.


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