Like you quoted... Because negotiating with Israel, US, Jordan and Egypt towards a two state solution, was seen by hamas as treason. You need to explain how it was nefarious for US to support the Fatah, due to success with establishing a two state solution.
Edit: This is the corruption that leads to public executions of Fatah?
The Fatah were technocrats...The United States spent $2.3 million in USAID on support for the Palestinian elections, allegedly designed to bolster the image of President Abbas and his Fatah party. USAID's Offices used discretionary spending accounts for various projects, including tree planting, schoolroom additions, a soccer tournament, street cleaning, and computers at community centers. USAID removed its usual branding requirement on its sponsored activities.
Last edited by Felya; 2021-05-21 at 12:42 AM.
Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi
Israel finished bombing Hamas in response to their rocket attack. The ceasefire has started. They're even now.
This is the perfect time for a fresh new start between Israel and Palestine, where they only want to help the other side and not take anything away from them. Maybe history books will describe the next decade as an era of enlightenment in the Middle East. It could happen.
Last edited by Felya; 2021-05-21 at 12:43 AM.
Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi
Hitler was voted into power.
Modi was also voted into power.
Both are fascists.
autocracy is the opposite of democracy, both are just different systems of how political powers in a country, they are not ideologies.
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Even? really? they destroyed far, far more. And they will continue oppressing the Palestinians by creating more settlements and making sure gaza stays an open air prison.
Cut it with your bullshit.
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His form of 'enlightment' probably involves all the Palestinians getting weeded out.
Cool story bro.
As long as Hamas leads Gaza, there won't be any two state solution. It's as simple as that. They can't even reconcile with West Bank leadership, let alone even beginning to dream to do so with Israel.
For starters, Palestinians need to decide on what kind of leadership they want for themselves, then we'll see where it goes. Not seeing any progress on this front in the next decade. West Bank will probably remain as is in this state of cold war-ish under the table chilly cooperation relationship with Israel, until Abbas kicks the bucket at least - then things will get interesting. And Hamas will keep controlling Gaza, after all they exiled/killed all their political opponents, so nobrainer there, though it might fall to even more extreme faction there.
Prospects for peace in the next decade- 0, outside absolute miracle. If anything there is a very real danger West Bank falls to Hamas too, if that will be the case - boy, forget about any sort of peace accords for next 25 years or so. So overall it's 0 with negative outlook.
Last edited by Gaidax; 2021-05-21 at 12:51 AM.
The only reason Hamas is there is because they had bigger guns than Fatah. Israel's biggest mistake was letting Hamas take over and exile the (whoever survived) from the opposition when we could have stopped it back then.
There is a reason why Hamas is recognized as terrorist organization by US and EU, that's one of those.
You people love screaming "nazis" at every opportunity, but what Hamas did was legit by Hitler's playbook - get voted in and then physically kill and ban the opposition.
Last edited by Gaidax; 2021-05-21 at 12:58 AM.
Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi
On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.
Given Hamas proclivity to divert international aid and building materials towards their war machine and military infrastructure, it being blocked is a given.
I am sorry for you being so easily caught by propaganda.
I cannot understand your obsession with mud when I've exposed the benefits of both earth and stone architecture, which this area of the World has a rich tradition.
Unless you want to waste massive amounts of money running air conditioning, earth architecture is a superior building material to all others in that climate, due to its unique moisture and temperature properties. It is truly an ideal one for building such as homes and patient wards.
In this part of the World, they are mainly using the adobe brick technique, which is only one technique. Elsewhere the technique of rammed earth is being rediscovered, with Europe and China having a rich history of it. Of all shacks the Alhambra in Granada is built of rammed earth. Modern public buildings and homes are being built of the stuff alright.
And as I stated, stone public buildings, infrastructure and whole cities are all across the old world. Providing a more durable and prestigious architecture, yet a less comfortable one, these traits being even stronger with the use of cement and concrete.
"It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."
~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"
As a said before, I'm more than happy to talk about the various ways to reduce Gaza's carbon footprint, but in case you missed it, there's other priorities at the moment, like rebuilding the infrastructures needed to bring Gaza back to the 20th century. We can talk about making it prestigious once that's done.
In regards to your first comment. Sure that sounds fair. Hamas might use cement steel gravel and sand to build bunkers, so let's not allow those material in to rebuild hospitals and schools. Afterall, “Palestinians are beasts, they are not human", right?
Makes perfect sense. Is that from your history side, map making side or just pure hatred you built over the years?
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At least Gaidax is open about what he thinks. It's people like Chairman I can't really stand.
Last edited by Cringefest; 2021-05-21 at 06:37 AM.
What on Earth are you rambling about?
I've given you links to two recently built, state of the art hospitals in Gaza, just a glance at the pictures tell that they are 2 storey high, not 10. Technically nothing would impede the construction of comparable infrastructure using sound stone or even earth architecture.
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Aye I hesitated giving that example. The thing with earth architecture is that it does require more maintenance, regular replastering being a necessity to prevent erosion of the main structure.
At such height the lower level walls will also need to be very thick. Hence why I gave the example of the stone built, 7 storey high, core of Paris as a very dense urban form. The key is that you cannot randomly built high up to infinity. For starters building higher is more expensive per sqm, as you waste sqms for stairs and circulation space for each floor. Urban form efficiency is a balance between building height and spacing as well as street width.
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Why would one want to bring them back to anywhere in the 20th century? If anything earth and stone architecture was all they had during the 1st half of it anyway.
I'm pretty sure they'd rather live in the 21st.
For now that will not happen as long as it stays a polity hellbent on a fruitless total war in which steel and cement happen to be strategic resource integral to the war effort.
Like I said, building homes and public infrastructures is entirely feasible without cement, provided there's a large supply of labor available. Conversely cement and steel is vital to the construction of tunnels and bunkers, in this context offensive military infrastructure.
Last edited by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang; 2021-05-21 at 09:04 AM.
"It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."
~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"
Again, what is with your obsession with the 20th century? Last I checked we are well into the 21st.
And again cement/concrete is the most prestigious architectural form, way above more traditional wood, stone or earth construction techniques, particularly in the Middle East and Africa, where they hold a mystique of Modernity : a vintage mid 20th century Modernity that is.
Like all materials it has advantages and inconvenients. The major one being, beside making for a suffocating atmosphere at night in arid climates (been there, done that), that it is more often than not a pricey imported product (I've just recently listened to a very interesting piece of journalism in Africa, detailing the mystique of cement, and it strikingly matched my own experience there, observing how people would be building, and how discussing cement prices and sources would be a mundane conversation topic with my local coworkers).
And again, hospitals are being built, like this one by Turkey as recently as 2017. One would assume they'd have legitimate channels to proceed unimpeded with such a project.
And now you're just loosing it, placing words into my mouth and assuming God knows what about my background and my sentiments towards Palestinians as all I am doing is discussing technicalities.
If there is one thing I can't stand it is statements based on ignorance, but given the World we live in I've learned to live with it. Sincerely I hope you'll get to learn how to read before replying, inform yourself from a variety of source and not be made to automatically echo the crowd's opinion.
"It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."
~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"
You cannot be that thick headed, the US put money in their election and tried to prop up the side they liked. You can't understand how Palestinians would view that as corrupt? seriously? Okay let me put it another way let's say Trump's campaign took millions dollars from the Russians after negotiating a denuclearization treaty, would you see that as corrupt?
It's pretty obvious what happened here, the life of the average Israeli is immeasurably better than a Palestinian yet they vote for a racist corrupt maniac like Bibi who doesn't have the best track record on domestic policy. And yet somehow you don't understand how Palestinians who are in dire straits would have a negative view of Israel and would support anyone seen as fighting back /facepalm.
Last edited by Draco-Onis; 2021-05-21 at 09:09 AM.
As mentioned by Endus, you'd essentially get the exact same thing. More or less total destruction. But the thing is concrete building might effectively be more efficient death traps, they'd have less mass, and the way they are built in developing countries are much more subject, by design, to a catastrophic ruination process : collapsing like a house of cards, as a bomb kicking out one pillar can be enough to trigger all the slabs collapsing, crushing the inhabitants inbetween during their fall.
Spreading the habitat and population as much as possible is the logical answer to bombing prospects, one taken by the British during the Blitz, the US and my country during the Cold War and it seems nowaday Hamas.
"It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."
~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"
Let's get them back in the 20th before we talk about 21st alright? That is, roads, sewers, hospitals, housing, basic infrastructures.
Yes, hospitals are being built as donations from foreign organisations.
And yet, here we are:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bro...of-gaza/%3famp
2017, people in Gaza still living without basic needs.
That quote is from a former Israeli minister. And that is exactly what you think. You just lack the courage to admit it. At least Gaidax has balls. You instead, you came up with 2 points in this thread.
Recolouring the map showcasing Israeli expansion, and suggesting Gaza uses mudbricks to rebuild infrastructures. Useless points in both cases, where you failed to address the subject being discussed. The map was about highlighting Israeli expansion throughout a number of years, and the lack of building material was about debating the blockade in Gaza. No one cares if the map should be blue or green and no one cares if you think mudbricks are really pretty.
At the end of the day the problem is that your bottomline starting point is the same as Gaidax, and that Israeli minister I quoted: "Palestinians can't be treated like other human beings".
They are undeserving of trust and should not receive the basic items needed for rebuilding their homes and infrastructures.
This is your starting point, and this is what I contest.
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"Essentially" huh.
No, what would happen in the case shown in the video I posted is that the collapse of that building onto another would most likely cause total destruction on a large scale. But who cares about them Palestinians right?
Last edited by Cringefest; 2021-05-21 at 09:46 AM.
Why the fixation on cement and coordinated international reconstruction? Haiti is a prime example of the ills of such : an army of White Saviors draped in their virtue, superiority and colonial technology, depowering the locals by shackling them and their salvation to cement dependency and their good will, instead of empowering them and solve at the same time some of the unemployment problem.
You have troubling assumptions and concerns about my happiness. If anything, what makes me happy is reading about things like these :
The relevance of earthen architecture in the Gaza strip
ShamsArd is a young Palestinian architecture firm that has designed several buildings constructed of dirt that respond to both the environmental climate (keeping the house cool in the summer and warm in the winter), and the political and economic climate.
Palestinians revive earthen architecture
Despite persisting stigmas, Palestinians are increasingly using clay, mud and sand to build their homes.
Ahmed Dawud’s neighbours thought he had lost his mind. When they saw three young architects building Dawud’s winter house in Jericho, in the occupied West Bank, using bags filled with a soil mix of clay, sand and gravel, they were quick to mock the 45-year-old.
“My neighbours perceived building from mud at first as a step backward. They found the shape of the domes strange and didn’t take the project seriously. Even the workers were suspicious about the capacity of the house to be habitable,” Dawud told Al Jazeera.
Dawud grew up in an overcrowded Palestinian refugee camp in Jordan called al-Wihdaat. His family lived like most others in the camp, in a small house made of concrete blocks, but he always dreamt of living in a house made of natural materials.
Dawud, a journalist, returned to the West Bank after the Oslo peace agreement was signed between Israel and the Palestinian leadership in the early 1990s. He moved into a stone house in Ramallah, a mountainous area where readily available stone has been used as the primary building material for centuries.
A year and a half ago, while out shopping for a sofa, he walked into an exhibition showcasing the works of three Palestinian architects. Masad, Rami Kasbari and Lina Saleh had just opened their studio, ShamsArd, in Ramallah, and were using recycled construction materials to build elegant furniture – tables, chairs, sofas and shelves.
Impressed with their work, Dawud contracted them to build his home in Jericho from mud, a material typical to the Jordan Valley, a desert area that makes up much of the eastern border of the occupied West Bank.
“I planned to build with mud bricks. But there are not many experts in that technique, and earth bags turned out to be cheaper than any other building material, including mud bricks. I fell in love with the idea and wanted to try something innovative,” Dawud explained.
Marwa Yousef, a Palestinian architect who builds with mud bricks, explained: “Mud brick as a construction material improves the internal environment of the houses – it keeps the temperature stable throughout the year. It doesn’t get very hot in summer, nor very cold in winter. It was mainly used in Jordan Valley because it’s easily available there.”
Yousef says the technique is at least 6,000 years old, and was widely used in historic Palestine until the introduction of cement in the mid-20th century.
“Concrete required less maintenance and allowed for building more spacious houses,” Yousef added.
Stringent Israeli restrictions on the import of construction materials to the occupied Palestinian territories have forced Palestinians to think of alternative ways to build their homes.
Mud bricks and straw made a comeback in the besieged Gaza Strip in 2009, after a major Israeli military attack on the Palestinian territory, known as Operation Cast Lead, left 1,400 Palestinians dead and levelled more than 3,500 houses.
While the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA) planned to build about 120 houses from mud bricks at a cost of $10,000 each in Gaza after the Israeli attack, reports detailed how Palestinians were building their own mud-brick homes in Gaza at even lower costs.
The practise soon became more widespread in the occupied West Bank, partly as a way to limit rebuilding costs for Palestinians whose homes were threatened with demolition by the Israeli army.
In the Jordan Valley, 87.5 percent of which falls under full Israeli military control (known as Area C), Palestinians struggle to obtain building permits from the Israeli authorities. Forced to build without permission, Palestinians regularly see their homes demolished, and entire communities have been destroyed.
In January alone, the Israeli army demolished the Palestinian village of Khirbet Ein Karzaliyah – displacing 10 adults and 15 children – and the nearby village of Khirbet Ein Hilwe, where another 66 people, more than half of them children, were made homeless.
“A big advantage of mud over cement is that it’s not only cheaper, but you can also easily rebuild with it. If [a home] was demolished, you just need to add water and mix it,” Alberto Alcalde, an architect at ARCO, an Italian architects’ cooperative working in the West Bank, told Al Jazeera.
ARCO designed and oversaw the building and renovation of schools using bamboo and mud in two Palestinian-Bedouin communities under constant threat of demolition – Abu Hindi and Khan al Ahmar which are located between Jerusalem and the Israeli settlement of Ma’ale Adumim.
“The school was built by the local Bedouin community, so they could also learn the technique. One of the community leaders told us that should the Israeli army demolish the school, they have materials and the know-how to manage without our assistance, and they can rebuild on their own,” Alcalde explained.
“Although this type of architecture is stigmatised here, people of the Abu Hindi [village] were very impressed with the final results. One of the teachers working in that school adopted some mud brick elements when renovating his own house,” he said.
Despite its benefits, earthen architecture carries a stigma of poverty in Palestine. In the Palestinian refugee camp of Ein Sultan in the Jordan Valley, huts made out of mud look as though they have been abandoned. Straw and palm leaves stick out from their roofs and tilted, unmaintained walls barely stand upright.
“When you make a roof out of mud, wood and straw – the traditional way – you have to maintain it yearly. So when people stop maintaining, the building is not comfortable and it starts leaking. That’s why people relate it to houses that are not well-made,” said Masad, from ShamsArd.
“Traditionally, it’s the architecture of the poor, and [people] do not want that stigma. They want to move up, [to places] like Ramallah,” she said.
But that perception is slowly changing, and more and more people are approaching the organisation with requests to build their homes, and other large-scale projects, out of sustainable materials, Masad said.
“The outlook is promising and we are looking at major construction plans based on earthen architecture.”
"It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."
~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"