1. #1661
    is it any mystery as to why this particular area that has a blockade and giant wall around it underdeveloped???? what else could it be but a failing of the people living within this "self governing" area? it couldn't POSSIBLY be any other number of things that might explain that.

  2. #1662
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    is it any mystery as to why this particular area that has a blockade and giant wall around it underdeveloped???? what else could it be but a failing of the people living within this "self governing" area? it couldn't POSSIBLY be any other number of things that might explain that.
    Yes that's what happens to areas taken over by terrorist organizations that put weapons above everything else, quite a pattern.

  3. #1663
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    I mean the existence of a blockade around Gaza should be obvious enough that it's not a free, open area, but, I'm sure they'll be hair splitting over that tidbit...
    I'm just like... I don't know I read this stuff and I wonder, why do people feel the need to talk about this subject when it's clear they haven't the slightest clue. Not even in an offensive way, but like, if I see a thread on poker, I know Jack shit about poker, I'd just avoid it. This is embarrassing. Felya literally does not know the situation in Gaza.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    You somehow keep missing the part where Israel prevents them from leaving.



    So Israel does control it, good to know.


    That single power-plant does not have enough power for shit. Can't exactly build a proper plant while under a blockade.
    They could with mudbricks!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    They can build 5 plants if they'd actually go ahead and use all these massive resources to actual wellbeing of citizens instead of being a frikkin' city under city with their kilometers of tunnels and bunkers to hold all the weapons and missiles.
    Massive resources? Like, all sources on urban planning in gaza cite lack of sources. Where did you get that from?
    You mean... Mud?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Yes that's what happens to areas taken over by terrorist organizations that put weapons above everything else, quite a pattern.
    No actually. Pretty unique on this plane of existence.

  4. #1664
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    They can build 5 plants if they'd actually go ahead and use all these massive resources to actual wellbeing of citizens instead of being a frikkin' city under city with their kilometers of tunnels and bunkers to hold all the weapons and missiles.
    How long before Israel appropriates the area those plants would be built?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Pushing the "Israel bad" narrative of course.

    I mean, I legit chuckle that the guy chides Israel for supplying PA with (unpaid btw) electricity. Talk about demanding to cut the nose to spite the face.

    If he/she legit do even that, then heck everything goes.

    Whose fault Gaza has only one shitty power plant and PA has no capacity to cover their own citizens? Israel of course! After all 30 years of self rule is not enough time to build another power plant or 5 of them.
    The people who keep taking their land. So yeah, Israel
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  5. #1665
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    How long before Israel appropriates the area those plants would be built?
    How about instead of hamas building bombs, they build those plants and we find out? How about hamas actually establishes a coalition government with Fatah, after nearly 15 years of strong arming into power?

    I keep asking this, but let me try again... If Palestinians were able to be trained and armed by Israel... have infrastructure built by Egypt, Jordan and US... have Israel withdraw from Gaza... Have Israel hand over the border to Egypt... to the point that Arafat, a Palestinian leader, receive a Nobel peace prize... all by 2004... What changed to have this momentum towards a two state solution not only halt, but go in reverse? What happened in the following years, that caused this?

    Please no more “Obama won one too” bullshit... Obama was no Arafat... it’s far more significant, especially for people of Palestine, that see him as a martyr... than anything to do with Obama getting one, for not being Bush.

    Edit: Oh and just to point out how obnoxious a lot of these arguments are... and since I’m the only one bringing up Arafat and insisting on Fatah get more attention... while people pointed at their corruption of letting US and neighboring states building infrastructure for Palestinians... Did any of you Google Arafat?

    Here is a hint... check his death... see why he is a martyr to Palestinians... in all this shitting on Fatah as some vehicle of the west, corrupting free elections... Google... there might be a anti Israel talking point in there... but, be warned... it will hurt the argument favoring hamas, as if Fatah were some pawns of the west...
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-05-22 at 01:43 AM.
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  6. #1666
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    How about instead of hamas building bombs, they build those plants and we find out? How about hamas actually establishes a coalition government with Fatah, after nearly 15 years of strong arming into power?

    I keep asking this, but let me try again... If Palestinians were able to be trained and armed by Israel... have infrastructure built by Egypt, Jordan and US... have Israel withdraw from Gaza... Have Israel hand over the border to Egypt... to the point that Arafat, a Palestinian leader, receive a Nobel peace prize... all by 2004... What changed to have this momentum towards a two state solution not only halt, but go in reverse? What happened in the following years, that caused this?

    Please no more “Obama won one too” bullshit... Obama was no Arafat... it’s far more significant, especially for people of Palestine, that see him as a martyr... than anything to do with Obama getting one, for not being Bush.
    What came first. Israel stealing land or Hamas? Ever consider Hamas is a direct result of Israel being shitty?
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  7. #1667
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    What came first. Israel stealing land or Hamas? Ever consider Hamas is a direct result of Israel being shitty?
    Israel was arming and training Palestinians in 2004... Gaza withdrawal and giving up the border to Egypt was in 2004... Arafat died while in 2004...

    The Palestinian civil war began in 2006... with hamas gaining power in 2007, then going on a campaign of murdering Palestinians. Including two sons of a Fatah official, executed in public. Reengaged on two state solution being made by Fatah, then declared that Israel is not a legitimate state for there to be a two state solution.

    Bibi gained power in 2009...

    You tell me...

    Edit: Like the person insisting Palestinians were “free for two years”... What happened after those two years? Israel was not involved in Palestinian civil war... they left Gaza... Why is everyone not seeing what changed? They literally had public executions of their political rivals... 600 Palestinians murdered... with plenty of murder and no coalition government since... How is it not obvious?
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-05-22 at 01:54 AM.
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  8. #1668
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Israel was arming and training Palestinians in 2004... Gaza withdrawal and giving up the border to Egypt was in 2004... Arafat died while in 2004...

    The Palestinian civil war began in 2006... with hamas gaining power in 2007, then going on a campaign of murdering Palestinians. Including two sons of a Fatah official, executed in public. Reengaged on two state solution being made by Fatah, then declared that Israel is not a legitimate state for there to be a two state solution.

    Bibi gained power in 2009...

    You tell me...

    What you really think this conflict started in 2004 and isn't an ongoing issue from around 1950?

    Hey guys just forget all that land we stole for 50+ years it's 2004 now....
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  9. #1669
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    What you really think this conflict started in 2004 and isn't an ongoing issue from around 1950?

    Hey guys just forget all that land we stole for 50+ years it's 2004 now....
    It also has to do with the fact that he live in an alternate history and ignores all the things Israel and the US did that made Hamas what it is today. It's all the evil Hamas you see not Israel they are the good guys.

  10. #1670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    What you really think this conflict started in 2004 and isn't an ongoing issue from around 1950?
    Started? No, that’s when the conflict almost ended. That’s the closest we have been to a two state solution in the entire history of Israel and Palestinian conflict. It would have been over by now... there would have been a two state solution... Hamas has set those negotiations back decades... with no end in sight...

    Hey guys just forget all that land we stole for 50+ years it's 2004 now....
    Hey, completely ignore when we almost had a solution that you want... because... what sort of masochism is this?

    You have grievances against Fatah, that I am not aware of? How do you see hamas as superior?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    It also has to do with the fact that he live in an alternate history and ignores all the things Israel and the US did that made Hamas what it is today. It's all the evil Hamas you see not Israel they are the good guys.
    Yes, I am ignoring that US and UN were building infrastructure, without UN and US labels... it’s not like I repeat it almost every post. Totally deserving of having Fatah entire family killed...

    Edit: Hamas still can’t form a coalition government with Fatah? How strange...
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-05-22 at 02:05 AM.
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  11. #1671
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Started? No, that’s when the conflict almost ended. That’s the closest we have been to a two state solution in the entire history of Israel and Palestinian conflict. It would have been over by now... there would have been a two state solution... Hamas has set those negotiations back decades... with no end in sight...



    Hey, completely ignore when we almost had a solution that you want... because... what sort of masochism is this?

    You have grievances against Fatah, that I am not aware of? How do you see hamas as superior?

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    Yes, I am ignoring that US and UN were building infrastructure, without UN and US labels... it’s not like I repeat it almost every post. Totally deserving of having Fatah entire family killed...

    So Palestine was suppose to just forget over 90% of their land being taken because Israel trained a few poeple? Does that really make sense to you? So if I come and take 90% of your house you would be ok with it if I taught you how to shoot a gun?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    You have grievances against Fatah, that I am not aware of? How do you see hamas as superior?
    I don't see Hamas as superior. I see Hamas as a direct result of Israel committing what is basically genocide.
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  12. #1672
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    So Palestine was suppose to just forget over 90% of their land being taken because Israel trained a few poeple? Does that really make sense to you? So if I come and take 90% of your house you would be ok with it if I taught you how to shoot a gun?
    Uhm... they had a two state solution almost complete... Do you think Fatah, were not Palestinians? In case you missed it, I’m not the one pushing hamas... I’m pushing for the other part of the supposed coalition. You know... Palestinians... want to try again?

    Did Fatah forget something that hamas didn’t?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  13. #1673
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Uhm... they had a two state solution almost complete... Do you think Fatah, were not Palestinians? In case you missed it, I’m not the one pushing hamas... I’m pushing for the other part of the supposed coalition. You know... Palestinians... want to try again?

    Did Fatah forget something that hamas didn’t?
    How about if Israel wants peace they can give the land back to them? Go by the original UN ruling.
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  14. #1674
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    I don't see Hamas as superior. I see Hamas as a direct result of Israel committing what is basically genocide.
    Oh... so you are completely ignoring that am talking about Fatah, because of their success in getting closest to a two state solution?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    How about if Israel wants peace they can give the land back to them? Go by the original UN ruling.
    You mean the deal being worked on with Palestinians called Fatah, that hamas withdrew from? That one?

    Edit: I sure hope Fatah regain power, so we can return to those negotiations...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  15. #1675
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Oh... so you are completely ignoring that am talking about Fatah, because of their success in getting closest to a two state solution?

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    You mean the deal being worked on, that hamas withdrew from? That one?
    What does fatah have to do with Israel commiting genocide? Does fatah being a thing erase that?



    Hey guys here about 5% of the land we took from you. Please forgive us or we will take even more
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  16. #1676
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    What does fatah have to do with Israel commiting genocide? Does fatah being a thing erase that?
    A solution to end it... how many times do I need to say that?

    Hey guys here about 5% of the land we took from you. Please forgive us or we will take even more
    Hey guys, this group withdrew from negotiations that would have retained that 5% and brought peace to the Middle East... fuck them... fuck solutions... fuck anything that doesn’t involve shitting on Israel... fuck logic... fuck rational... fuck everything...

    ... and if you are going to bitch about me being mad, like the others... please use a joker meme, like a proper gentleman...

    Edit: By the way... Fatah were not some peace loving good nicks that didn’t care about their land being stolen. Arafat died in Israeli custody... Fatah is Conquest in Arabic... You think they don’t care?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  17. #1677
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    A solution to end it... how many times do I need to say that?



    Hey guys, this group withdrew from negotiations that would have retained that 5% and brought peace to the Middle East... fuck them... fuck solutions... fuck anything that doesn’t involve shitting on Israel... fuck logic... fuck rational... fuck everything...

    ... and if you are going to bitch about me being mad, like the others... please use a joker meme, like a proper gentleman...
    I already provided evidence that when Fatah was in power very little was different. Care to explain why Fatah would prevent Israel from doing what they were doing while they were last in power?

  18. #1678
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    A solution to end it... how many times do I need to say that?



    Hey guys, this group withdrew from negotiations that would have retained that 5% and brought peace to the Middle East... fuck them... fuck solutions... fuck anything that doesn’t involve shitting on Israel... fuck logic... fuck rational... fuck everything...

    ... and if you are going to bitch about me being mad, like the others... please use a joker meme, like a proper gentleman...
    There is a perfect solution. Give ALL the land back and stop trying to take more.
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  19. #1679
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    I already provided evidence that when Fatah was in power very little was different. Care to explain why Fatah would prevent Israel from doing what they were doing while they were last in power?
    Yes, because you consider a withdraw from Gaza, Israel training and arming Palestinians, while Egypt took over the border... with the west and neighboring states building infrastructure for Palestinians. With literally finalizing talks with further steps towards a two state solution on the table... as little difference...

    I know people keep downplaying Arafat getting a Nobel peace prize for this... but, the guy was considered a terrorist for half a century. This wasn’t some random... this was one of the most reviled terrorist during those 50 years... him getting the prize is extremely significant... and controversial, as a result...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    There is a perfect solution. Give ALL the land back and stop trying to take more.
    Okay... so, you are a hamas supporter... Where do all the Israeli go? Where do you send 9 million Israeli, so Palestine can be whole again?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  20. #1680
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Yes, because you consider a withdraw from Gaza, Israel training and arming Palestinians, while Egypt took over the border... with the west and neighboring states building infrastructure for Palestinians. With literally finalizing talks with further steps towards a two state solution on the table... as little difference...

    I know people keep downplaying Arafat getting a Nobel peace prize for this... but, the guy was considered a terrorist for half a century. This wasn’t some random... this was one of the most reviled terrorist during those 50 years... him getting the prize is extremely significant... and controversial, as a result...
    Seems like you need to read up on what was happening then. Not gonna keep engaging with someone who denies reality. Israel isn’t innocent and has done far more to inflame and prolong tensions.

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