1. #1681
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Okay... so, you are a hamas supporter... Where do all the Israeli go? Where do you send 9 million Israeli, so Palestine can be whole again?
    So it's ok to displace Palestinians but don't touch Israeli's? lmfao Show your bais more.


    No I don't support Hamas. I support Israel returning what they stole. Sadly they can only return the land and not the lives.
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  2. #1682
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Okay... so, you are a hamas supporter... Where do all the Israeli go? Where do you send 9 million Israeli, so Palestine can be whole again?
    They're discussing a return to the 1967 borders, not an abolishment of Israel wholesale. When you exaggerate that badly, you're not attacking their argument any more. The only Israelis who would be displaced by such a move are Israelis who've been part of the illegal settlement program. Which, y'know, war crime.

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    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    So it's ok to displace Palestinians but don't touch Israeli's? lmfao Show your bais more.
    What displaced Palestinians? I keep repeating that Fatah had a deal that was in final stages, where there wouldn’t have been any additional settlement. None of you care... none of you care that until hamas, Fatah and Israel were working together for the betterment of the Palestinian people... Because happy Palestinians, means happy Israel... you don’t have to worry about bombs, if you actually helping each other, as Fatah were doing with Israel.

    Instead, I get that all land needs to be returned, as if what I said wasn’t enough?

    No I don't support Hamas. I support Israel returning what they stole. Sadly they can only return the land and not the lives.
    Then why is your response to me pointing that hamas withdrew from a deal that would have kept that land and working towards a two state solution... with demanding all the land, in caps and bolded? All the land means, pre British colonization, as in no Israel... as in the very demand hamas made, while pulling out of the deal.

    Can hamas return the lives of Fatah and the families they murdered? Do we keep ignoring that part?
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  4. #1684
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    They're discussing a return to the 1967 borders, not an abolishment of Israel wholesale. When you exaggerate that badly, you're not attacking their argument any more.

    It shows when he thinks it's ok that Israel displaced 7 mil+ Palestinians but asking Israel to return to original borders is insane.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    What displaced Palestinians? I keep repeating that Fatah had a deal that was in final stages, where there wouldn’t have been any additional settlement. None of you care... none of you care that until hamas, Fatah and Israel were working together for the betterment of the Palestinian people... Because happy Palestinians, means happy Israel... you don’t have to worry about bombs, if you actually helping each other, as Fatah were doing with Israel.

    Instead, I get that all land needs to be returned, as if what I said wasn’t enough?






    Really? What Palestinians?



    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Then why is your response to me pointing that hamas withdrew from a deal that would have kept that land and working towards a two state solution... with demanding all the land, in caps and bolded? All the land means, pre British colonization, as in no Israel... as in the very demand hamas made, while pulling out of the deal.

    Can hamas return the lives of Fatah and the families they murdered? Do we keep ignoring that part?
    yeah no I made it clear I've been talking about the UN resolution on the matter.
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  5. #1685
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    They're discussing a return to the 1967 borders, not an abolishment of Israel wholesale. When you exaggerate that badly, you're not attacking their argument any more. The only Israelis who would be displaced by such a move are Israelis who've been part of the illegal settlement program. Which, y'know, war crime.
    No, they denounces the existence of Israel, upon take over and literally withdrew from negotiations towards that deal. Why do you think Israel, Jordan, Egypt and US were all in agreement supporting Fatah? Egypt, Jordan, Israel, US and at the time leader of Palestinians and Fatah... Arafat... They murdered them and their families... It has been denounced by international community and resulted in withdraw of support.

    Again... that was the last successful election for Gaza...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  6. #1686
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    No, they denounces the existence of Israel, upon take over and literally withdrew from negotiations towards that deal. Why do you think Israel, Jordan, Egypt and US were all in agreement supporting Fatah? Egypt, Jordan, Israel, US and at the time leader of Palestinians and Fatah... Arafat... They murdered them and their families... It has been denounced by international community and resulted in withdraw of support.

    Again... that was the last successful election for Gaza...
    I did? where? only thing I have denounced is Israel stealing land and committing genocide after the UN resolution.
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  7. #1687
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    No, they denounces the existence of Israel, upon take over and literally withdrew from negotiations towards that deal. Why do you think Israel, Jordan, Egypt and US were all in agreement supporting Fatah? Egypt, Jordan, Israel, US and at the time leader of Palestinians and Fatah... Arafat... They murdered them and their families... It has been denounced by international community and resulted in withdraw of support.

    Again... that was the last successful election for Gaza...
    '"They" who? Because I was talking about posters in this thread, none of whom I've seen advocate for abolishing Israel.

    Palestinians? That's just factually incorrect. A majority support Israel's existence.

    Fatah? Also wrong; they've been pushing for a return to 1967 borders.

    Hamas? Sure, they do. But Israel's been actively trying to eliminate Palestine, so Hamas has only ever existed as a reaction. While I don't support them or what they seek, pretending they emerged out of nothing in a vacuum is just . . . wrong.

  8. #1688
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    It shows when he thinks it's ok that Israel displaced 7 mil+ Palestinians but asking Israel to return to original borders is insane.
    Yes, which is why I am supporting the part of Palestinian coalition government, that had a deal worked on to create a two state solution. Something I don’t believe you support...

    Really? What Palestinians?
    Where would that put 2004? You are literally supporting hamas, for backing out of a two state solution, because they didn’t get the land Israeli have been living on for 60 years? Where should those civilians go?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  9. #1689
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Where would that put 2004? You are literally supporting hamas, for backing out of a two state solution, because they didn’t get the land Israeli have been living on for 60 years? Where should those civilians go?
    Seriously, I have not seen anywhere that Orange Joe is arguing for abolishing Israel and ejecting all Jewish people from the region.

    You're attacking a straw man.

  10. #1690
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Yes, which is why I am supporting the part of Palestinian coalition government, that had a deal worked on to create a two state solution. Something I don’t believe you support...



    Where would that put 2004? You are literally supporting hamas, for backing out of a two state solution, because they didn’t get the land Israeli have been living on for 60 years? Where should those civilians go?
    And you are supporting genocide. See how easy and stupid saying shit like this is?
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  11. #1691
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    '"They" who? Because I was talking about posters in this thread, none of whom I've seen advocate for abolishing Israel.
    It’s obviously hamas... you even see it as obvious...

    Palestinians? That's just factually incorrect. A majority support Israel's existence.

    Fatah? Also wrong; they've been pushing for a return to 1967 borders.

    Hamas? Sure, they do. But Israel's been actively trying to eliminate Palestine, so Hamas has only ever existed as a reaction. While I don't support them or what they seek, pretending they emerged out of nothing in a vacuum is just . . . wrong.
    If you assume 3 things and only one of them is correct... what are you doing?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  12. #1692
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    It’s obviously hamas... you even see it as obvious...



    If you assume 3 things and only one of them is correct... what are you doing?
    You tell me? You assume all kinda of shit I have said and none of them have been right
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  13. #1693
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Seriously, I have not seen anywhere that Orange Joe is arguing for abolishing Israel and ejecting all Jewish people from the region.

    You're attacking a straw man.
    The highlight isn’t mine... this is also in response to me agreeing with the two state solution that was going to be established in 2004.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    There is a perfect solution. Give ALL the land back and stop trying to take more.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    You tell me? You assume all kinda of shit I have said and none of them have been right
    That’s disingenuous... I have been nothing, but supportive of Palestinians and Fatah... bullshit...

    Edit: Either one of you... prove how genuine your replies are... show me say one negative thing about Palestinians or Fatah... for you to pose such a ridiculous assertion.
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-05-22 at 02:54 AM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  14. #1694
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    The highlight isn’t mine... this is also in response to me agreeing with the two state solution that was going to be established in 2004.

    That’s disingenuous... I have been nothing, but supportive of Palestinians and Fatah... bullshit...

    Yes. The land they STOLE. not the land they were GIVEN.


    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    That’s disingenuous... I have been nothing, but supportive of Palestinians and Fatah... bullshit...
    Then why are you against giving their land back? All I've seen form you is justifying Israels genocide.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Edit: Either one of you... prove how genuine your replies are... show me say one negative thing about Palestinians or Fatah... for you to pose such a ridiculous assertion.
    How about first you should me where I said I support Hamas or where I have said I want to abolish Israel?
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  15. #1695
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    The highlight isn’t mine... this is also in response to me agreeing with the two state solution that was going to be established in 2004.
    For some interpretations of "all", he could be arguing that Palestinians are owed the whole planet! After all, "all land", right?

    Or maybe we should use context and his other posts and come to the conclusion he's almost certainly talking about the 1967 borders. Which he's explicitly stated. You're wrong about this.

    Edit: Either one of you... prove how genuine your replies are... show me say one negative thing about Palestinians or Fatah... for you to pose such a ridiculous assertion.
    Jesus fucking Christ.

    Do I have to go back and find the last time in this thread I pulled together all the other times in this thread I condemned Hamas and their terrorism?

    If you can't be arsed to figure out what people are actually fucking arguing, and are just gonna kneejerk based on cartoon stereotypes you've made up in your head, you've decided to be unreasonable and impossible to talk to.

    At this point, you're a short step from calling me a commie Muslim or something. I get enough of that from Trump cultists.

  16. #1696
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Yes. The land they STOLE. not the land they were GIVEN.
    But, not the land that both sides where actually able to agree to... likely because they would be displacing Israeli civilians that have been living there for the last 60 years. Perhaps they both learned from their mistakes and didn’t want to displace civilians that lived there for so long, since that would just be doing similar to what Israel did to Palestinians.

    But, I’m just guessing as to why Arafat was agreeing to this deal... all I know, is that if I want peace in the Middle East, the only place I can look at as a blue print... is what happened in 2004...

    Then why are you against giving their land back? All I've seen form you is justifying Israels genocide.
    By saying that I support the two state solution that was near completion in 2004? I’m just talking past you at this point... it doesn’t mater... you will assume the worst, regardless of what I actually say... I can just start speaking in tongues and get nearly the same reply...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    For some interpretations of "all", he could be arguing that Palestinians are owed the whole planet! After all, "all land", right?
    When you quote that reply... can you apply the same mark up? If you are going to be this disingenuous, let your flag fly high.

    Edit: I must say... this thread has really been a learning experience... I don’t think I like it... not one bit...
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-05-22 at 03:05 AM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  17. #1697
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    But, not the land that both sides where actually able to agree to... likely because they would be displacing Israeli civilians that have been living there for the last 60 years. Perhaps they both learned from their mistakes and didn’t want to displace civilians that lived there for so long, since that would just be doing similar to what Israel did to Palestinians.

    But, I’m just guessing as to why Arafat was agreeing to this deal... all I know, is that if I want peace in the Middle East, the only place I can look at as a blue print... is what happened in 2004...



    By saying that I support the two state solution that was near completion in 2004? I’m just talking past you at this point... it doesn’t mater... you will assume the worst, regardless of what I actually say... I can just start speaking in tongues and get nearly the same reply...

    - - - Updated - - -



    When you quote that reply... can you apply the same mark up? If you are going to be this disingenuous, let your flag fly high.
    This 2004 being some holy year as to how close peace was only seem to be coming from you......

    I can't find anything else saying what you are claiming.

    Hell 2004 isn't even mentioned here.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel..._peace_process
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  18. #1698
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    When you quote that reply... can you apply the same mark up? If you are going to be this disingenuous, let your flag fly high.
    Nothing disingenuous on my end.

    You're lying about Orange Joe's position. They've corrected you, you're completely unwilling to accept the correction and insist on the mistake, which is why I'm comfortable calling it a deliberate lie, intended with malice, at this point.

    I don't know why; I thought you were a pretty reasonable poster, before this.

  19. #1699
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Nothing disingenuous on my end.

    You're lying about Orange Joe's position. They've corrected you, you're completely unwilling to accept the correction and insist on the mistake, which is why I'm comfortable calling it a deliberate lie, intended with malice, at this point.

    I don't know why; I thought you were a pretty reasonable poster, before this.
    I didn't think they were ever very reasonable because I've been dealing with them pulling that same exact shit for months. It's like his bread and butter. Then even once a position is clarified (that shouldn't really have needed it to begin with) they reject the clarification, go down another line an argument or their original line continuing with the dishonesty.

    Then if you catch them out absolutely... they'll just drop the whole thing and say it wasn't important or they don't want to talk about it, or say that conversation is stupid despite it having been brought up and misconstrued and disingenuously argued... by them. It's the most annoying shit.
    Last edited by Themius; 2021-05-22 at 05:11 AM.
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    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
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    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  20. #1700
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Yeah, big whoop... is that how a Palestinian leader by the name of Arafat, received a Nobel peace prize? Seems like it was a big deal for Palestinians...
    Arafat won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994, the withdrawal happened a decade later lol. So no, that's not how he received a Nobel peace prize.
    Yes, not having any Israeli in Gaza is hardly a withdrawal... let me guess, any steps towards a two state solution are hardly steps and hamas was right to murder the Fatah for it...
    Once again...
    Following the withdrawal, Israel has continued to maintain direct control over Gaza's air and maritime space, and six of Gaza's seven land crossings, it maintains a no-go buffer zone within the territory, and controls the Palestinian population registry, and Gaza remains dependent on Israel for its water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities

    They should be happy because IDF left? Yet nothing really changed for them did it?

    Ya’ll are defending hamas... not Palestinians...
    No one is defending Hamas lol

    It absolutely does... where is that joker meme?
    Indeed, where is that meme?

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