Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[Felya]

Just unwilling to let other atrocities slide if they don't amount to the same death toll yet, precisely because I do not ever want to see anything on the scale of the Holocaust ever happen again.

They put people on trains, then made lamps out of their skin.

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I am simply pointing out nuclear weapons is not the way to make friends with your neighbors they are in it of themselves an escalating factor. There is no leader of any country that wouldn't take it as a threat.

Can you point to Justin Trudeau saying anything remotely to this effect about US? How about Russia’s neighboring states?

[Endus]

They put people on trains, then made lamps out of their skin.

Yes, but my point is "oh, these atrocities aren't that bad, we're not at the make-lamps-out-of-their-skin stage yet" is a horseshit argument.

I'd rather forestall atrocities building up than sit back and wait for another Holocaust to reach full swing before standing against it.

[Felya]

Yes, but my point is "oh, these atrocities aren't that bad, we're not at the make-lamps-out-of-their-skin stage yet" is a horseshit argument.

I'd rather forestall atrocities building up than sit back and wait for another Holocaust to reach full swing before standing against it.

How about I start comparing it to a school shooting?

[Draco-Onis]

Can you print to Justin Trudeau saying anything remotely to this effect about US? How about Russia’s neighboring states?

ROFLMAO that's a sad desperate reach right there Canada and the US do not have the same history and Russia's neighbors are afraid of their nukes that's why they try to lean on the US or EU for protection. I know you are much smarter than this but you are trying too hard to shill for Israel.

[Themius]

Israel does not target civilians specifically, Hamas does. Israel has no reason to feel sorry for your warped misconception about some kind of fair fight where one side should stop because the other has more dead. Israel has technological advantage, they will use it as they should. Anyone else would too and the rest is only in your head about how things "should be".
If you still do not get in - Canada in place of Israel would do exactly the same. So would Japan. So would Russia. So would Norway, Brazil, New Zealand and anyone else. If Hamas are unable to kill more Jews than they do it is their problem, not Israel's.

More brutal and violent? Year 2007. Throwing Fatah members from the rooftops, dragging them behind bikes across Gaza.
P.S.
Palestinians and other Arabs have killed more Palestinians than Jews have ever killed them. Way more, in fact.



Gaza = Hamas. Hamas are literally the enemy of Israel the country. Who would EVER give weapons to their enemies????!!!! The actual fuck, Themius?
As for West Bank they are not shooting rockets at Israel, nor is Israel bombing it, no need for anti-missile defense.. And you also obviously have no idea what the purpose of Iron Dome even is (hint - it would not protect against air strikes).



Basically not possible, unless everyone in Gaza is forcefully resettled in another country. But doing serious damage to Hamas ability to wage war? Absolutely possible.

"Gaza is hamas" it is not..

[Felya]

ROFLMAO that's a sad desperate reach right there Canada and the US do not have the same history and Russia's neighbors are afraid of their nukes that's why they try to lean on the US or EU for protection. I know you are much smarter than this but you are trying too hard to shill for Israel.

Then you should have no trouble linking such comments? Ukraine gave up their nukes without any trade or pact made... without Poland complaining...

Again, nuking your neighbor is suicide...

[Draco-Onis]

Then you should have no trouble linking such comments? Ukraine gave up their nukes without any trade or pact made... without Poland complaining...

Again, nuking your neighbor is suicide...

Then why did Israel get nukes? if there was no point they wouldn't have gotten them.

[Themius]

Hamas military wing kills have committed constant war crimes and crimes against humanity against Israeli civilians and against Palestinian civilians. Suicide bombings vs civilians, rocket attacks vs civilians, using child soldiers, killings Palestinian reporters, torture, arrests, executions and arbitrary detentions of Palestinian civilians. They are without a doubt terrorists. Its amazing you dont know this.

Israel is currently committing constant war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Suicide bombing vs civilians... versus rocket bombing of neighbourhoods of civilians. Or bombing market streets where women and children are clearly going about their day.

Tortue... arrest... executions.. arbitrary detention this sounds like conventional war to me....

tell me what have you said here that the USA doesn't do or that Israel isn't doing now? Suicide bombings? They don't do that, because they don't have to resort to such a tactic, they have the supremacy. It amazes me how you can rattle off a bunch of stuff that sounds like what Israel is already doing itself...

So are they both terrorists then?

[Felya]

Then why did Israel get nukes?

Because the world was in arms race... It wasn’t to scare Palestinians...

[Endus]

How about I start comparing it to a school shooting?

To what end, and in what respect?

To paraphrase my point, Sandy Hook was the Holocaust-equivalent; the deadliest elementary-school shooting in US history at 28 deaths (I'm skipping Virginia Tech because it was a post-secondary school, and I don't think you meant such, but if you prefer that example it changes nothing in what I'm about to say).

My stance is that I take issue with any school shooting, even if there's just injuries and no fatalities. That any school shooting is horrible and tragic and should not be hand-waved away.

There's a lot of people arguing that we should just ignore all these other school shootings on the basis that "they're not as bad as Sandy Hook was, in terms of fatalities". I find that egregious.

[Felya]

Suicide bombing vs civilians... versus rocket bombing of neighbourhoods of civilians. Or bombing market streets where women and children are clearly going about their day.

What the fuck? Do you think suicide bombers avoid market streets where women and children are clearly going by their day? What a biased comparison...

[Draco-Onis]

Because the world was in arms race... It wasn’t to scare Palestinians...

no it wasn't facepalm that was my point thank you they did it to threaten their neighbors.

[Themius]

What the fuck? Do you think suicide bombers avoid market streets where women and children are clearly going by their day? What a biased comparison...

Are you having difficulty understanding the argument here?

Suiciding bombing of civilians

vs

Rocket bombing of civilians or bombing markets with clear civilian activity

These are both terrorist acts what makes one better than the other?

[Felya]

To what end, and in what respect?

To paraphrase my point, Sandy Hook was the Holocaust-equivalent; the deadliest elementary-school shooting in US history at 28 deaths (I'm skipping Virginia Tech because it was a post-secondary school, and I don't think you meant such, but if you prefer that example it changes nothing in what I'm about to say).

My stance is that I take issue with any school shooting, even if there's just injuries and no fatalities. That any school shooting is horrible and tragic and should not be hand-waved away.

There's a lot of people arguing that we should just ignore all these other school shootings on the basis that "they're not as bad as Sandy Hook was, in terms of fatalities". I find that egregious.

You are literally devaluing what happened... this is a kin to Holocaust denial... Jews were not chugging bombs at Germany... Jews did not have a hamas type organization... Jews did not have a military...

[Slant]

The fact that they have nukes is a giant dick in the face of every country in the middle east, they started the race for nukes in the ME. My point is Israel's entire past is about pissing off its neighbors.

Or it's about survival in the face of every neighbour saying "they need to be thrown into the Ocean". Potato Potatoe.

[Draco-Onis]

Or it's about survival in the face of every neighbour saying "they need to be thrown into the Ocean". Potato Potatoe.

And a great way of verifying their worse fears patato patatoe.

[Themius]

You are literally devaluing what happened... this is a kin to Holocaust denial... Jews were not chugging bombs at Germany... Jews did not have a hamas type organization... Jews did not have a military...

The jews did uprise and try to fight back multiple times before the extermination began... they should have just been happy in their ghettos and not pushed the nazis.

Is that the fucking argument you're trying to go with here???

By the way... several jews who grew up in the ghettos and survived have called Israel's actions to be just like those Nazi Germany took against them.

You have some bias don't you....

[Slant]

Did not in any way belittle the Holocaust.

Just unwilling to let other atrocities slide if they don't amount to the same death toll yet, precisely because I do not ever want to see anything on the scale of the Holocaust ever happen again.

Hand-waving ethnic cleansing and civilian deaths because "it's not as many as died in the Holocaust", that is belittling the Holocaust, as if it were just the numbers of dead that were at issue there.



Pretty sure if you dig through my back history of posts, you'll find plenty where I condemn the modern state of the Middle East to British (originally), American (post-WWII to today), and Russian (same) meddling. I don't disagree that Americans have done a lot of super shitty things in the Middle East, and I condemn those too. Being buddy-buddy with Saudi Arabia is a big one.

Didn't say YOU belittled the Holocaust. That caricature did, however. I'm not arguing against anything else.

[Felya]

Are you having difficulty understanding the argument here?

If I did, I wouldn’t point out the bias... Would this change to what you said be wrong?

Suiciding bombing of civilians or suicide bombing markets with clear civilian activity

vs

Rocket bombing of civilians or bombing markets with clear civilian activity

So... what the fuck?

These are both terrorist acts what makes one better than the other?

Yes, then why do you ignore that suicide bombers literally try to hit public places? That is literally their intent and in their manifesto. Israel is at least claiming they are hitting military targets, for you to claim its lying. Suicide bombers are honest about it...

[downnola]

Israel is currently committing constant war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Suicide bombing vs civilians... versus rocket bombing of neighbourhoods of civilians. Or bombing market streets where women and children are clearly going about their day.

Tortue... arrest... executions.. arbitrary detention this sounds like conventional war to me....

tell me what have you said here that the USA doesn't do or that Israel isn't doing now? Suicide bombings? They don't do that, because they don't have to resort to such a tactic, they have the supremacy. It amazes me how you can rattle off a bunch of stuff that sounds like what Israel is already doing itself...

So are they both terrorists then?

You can point out war crimes and injustice towards Palestinians without defending or justifying the actions of Hamas. The enemy of your enemy isn't your friend by default. This is like arguing that Jabhat al-Nusra were really freedom fighters in Syria despite making it very clear they wanted turn Syria into a theocracy and terrorize every non-Sunni Muslim that lived within its borders.