Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[Felya]

What came first. Israel stealing land or Hamas? Ever consider Hamas is a direct result of Israel being shitty?

Israel was arming and training Palestinians in 2004... Gaza withdrawal and giving up the border to Egypt was in 2004... Arafat died while in 2004...

The Palestinian civil war began in 2006... with hamas gaining power in 2007, then going on a campaign of murdering Palestinians. Including two sons of a Fatah official, executed in public. Reengaged on two state solution being made by Fatah, then declared that Israel is not a legitimate state for there to be a two state solution.

Bibi gained power in 2009...

You tell me...

Edit: Like the person insisting Palestinians were “free for two years”... What happened after those two years? Israel was not involved in Palestinian civil war... they left Gaza... Why is everyone not seeing what changed? They literally had public executions of their political rivals... 600 Palestinians murdered... with plenty of murder and no coalition government since... How is it not obvious?

[Orange Joe]

Israel was arming and training Palestinians in 2004... Gaza withdrawal and giving up the border to Egypt was in 2004... Arafat died while in 2004...

The Palestinian civil war began in 2006... with hamas gaining power in 2007, then going on a campaign of murdering Palestinians. Including two sons of a Fatah official, executed in public. Reengaged on two state solution being made by Fatah, then declared that Israel is not a legitimate state for there to be a two state solution.

Bibi gained power in 2009...

You tell me...

What you really think this conflict started in 2004 and isn't an ongoing issue from around 1950?

Hey guys just forget all that land we stole for 50+ years it's 2004 now....

[Draco-Onis]

What you really think this conflict started in 2004 and isn't an ongoing issue from around 1950?

Hey guys just forget all that land we stole for 50+ years it's 2004 now....

It also has to do with the fact that he live in an alternate history and ignores all the things Israel and the US did that made Hamas what it is today. It's all the evil Hamas you see not Israel they are the good guys.

[Felya]

What you really think this conflict started in 2004 and isn't an ongoing issue from around 1950?

Started? No, that’s when the conflict almost ended. That’s the closest we have been to a two state solution in the entire history of Israel and Palestinian conflict. It would have been over by now... there would have been a two state solution... Hamas has set those negotiations back decades... with no end in sight...

Hey guys just forget all that land we stole for 50+ years it's 2004 now....

Hey, completely ignore when we almost had a solution that you want... because... what sort of masochism is this?

You have grievances against Fatah, that I am not aware of? How do you see hamas as superior?

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It also has to do with the fact that he live in an alternate history and ignores all the things Israel and the US did that made Hamas what it is today. It's all the evil Hamas you see not Israel they are the good guys.

Yes, I am ignoring that US and UN were building infrastructure, without UN and US labels... it’s not like I repeat it almost every post. Totally deserving of having Fatah entire family killed...

Edit: Hamas still can’t form a coalition government with Fatah? How strange...

[Orange Joe]

Started? No, that’s when the conflict almost ended. That’s the closest we have been to a two state solution in the entire history of Israel and Palestinian conflict. It would have been over by now... there would have been a two state solution... Hamas has set those negotiations back decades... with no end in sight...



Hey, completely ignore when we almost had a solution that you want... because... what sort of masochism is this?

You have grievances against Fatah, that I am not aware of? How do you see hamas as superior?

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Yes, I am ignoring that US and UN were building infrastructure, without UN and US labels... it’s not like I repeat it almost every post. Totally deserving of having Fatah entire family killed...

So Palestine was suppose to just forget over 90% of their land being taken because Israel trained a few poeple? Does that really make sense to you? So if I come and take 90% of your house you would be ok with it if I taught you how to shoot a gun?

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You have grievances against Fatah, that I am not aware of? How do you see hamas as superior?

I don't see Hamas as superior. I see Hamas as a direct result of Israel committing what is basically genocide.

[Felya]

So Palestine was suppose to just forget over 90% of their land being taken because Israel trained a few poeple? Does that really make sense to you? So if I come and take 90% of your house you would be ok with it if I taught you how to shoot a gun?

Uhm... they had a two state solution almost complete... Do you think Fatah, were not Palestinians? In case you missed it, I’m not the one pushing hamas... I’m pushing for the other part of the supposed coalition. You know... Palestinians... want to try again?

Did Fatah forget something that hamas didn’t?

[Orange Joe]

Uhm... they had a two state solution almost complete... Do you think Fatah, were not Palestinians? In case you missed it, I’m not the one pushing hamas... I’m pushing for the other part of the supposed coalition. You know... Palestinians... want to try again?

Did Fatah forget something that hamas didn’t?

How about if Israel wants peace they can give the land back to them? Go by the original UN ruling.

[Felya]

I don't see Hamas as superior. I see Hamas as a direct result of Israel committing what is basically genocide.

Oh... so you are completely ignoring that am talking about Fatah, because of their success in getting closest to a two state solution?

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How about if Israel wants peace they can give the land back to them? Go by the original UN ruling.

You mean the deal being worked on with Palestinians called Fatah, that hamas withdrew from? That one?

Edit: I sure hope Fatah regain power, so we can return to those negotiations...

[Orange Joe]

Oh... so you are completely ignoring that am talking about Fatah, because of their success in getting closest to a two state solution?

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You mean the deal being worked on, that hamas withdrew from? That one?

What does fatah have to do with Israel commiting genocide? Does fatah being a thing erase that?



Hey guys here about 5% of the land we took from you. Please forgive us or we will take even more

[Felya]

What does fatah have to do with Israel commiting genocide? Does fatah being a thing erase that?

A solution to end it... how many times do I need to say that?

Hey guys here about 5% of the land we took from you. Please forgive us or we will take even more

Hey guys, this group withdrew from negotiations that would have retained that 5% and brought peace to the Middle East... fuck them... fuck solutions... fuck anything that doesn’t involve shitting on Israel... fuck logic... fuck rational... fuck everything...

... and if you are going to bitch about me being mad, like the others... please use a joker meme, like a proper gentleman...

Edit: By the way... Fatah were not some peace loving good nicks that didn’t care about their land being stolen. Arafat died in Israeli custody... Fatah is Conquest in Arabic... You think they don’t care?

[Orange Joe]

A solution to end it... how many times do I need to say that?



Hey guys, this group withdrew from negotiations that would have retained that 5% and brought peace to the Middle East... fuck them... fuck solutions... fuck anything that doesn’t involve shitting on Israel... fuck logic... fuck rational... fuck everything...

... and if you are going to bitch about me being mad, like the others... please use a joker meme, like a proper gentleman...

There is a perfect solution. Give ALL the land back and stop trying to take more.

[Felya]

I already provided evidence that when Fatah was in power very little was different. Care to explain why Fatah would prevent Israel from doing what they were doing while they were last in power?

Yes, because you consider a withdraw from Gaza, Israel training and arming Palestinians, while Egypt took over the border... with the west and neighboring states building infrastructure for Palestinians. With literally finalizing talks with further steps towards a two state solution on the table... as little difference...

I know people keep downplaying Arafat getting a Nobel peace prize for this... but, the guy was considered a terrorist for half a century. This wasn’t some random... this was one of the most reviled terrorist during those 50 years... him getting the prize is extremely significant... and controversial, as a result...

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There is a perfect solution. Give ALL the land back and stop trying to take more.

Okay... so, you are a hamas supporter... Where do all the Israeli go? Where do you send 9 million Israeli, so Palestine can be whole again?

[Orange Joe]

Okay... so, you are a hamas supporter... Where do all the Israeli go? Where do you send 9 million Israeli, so Palestine can be whole again?

So it's ok to displace Palestinians but don't touch Israeli's? lmfao Show your bais more.


No I don't support Hamas. I support Israel returning what they stole. Sadly they can only return the land and not the lives.

[Endus]

Okay... so, you are a hamas supporter... Where do all the Israeli go? Where do you send 9 million Israeli, so Palestine can be whole again?

They're discussing a return to the 1967 borders, not an abolishment of Israel wholesale. When you exaggerate that badly, you're not attacking their argument any more. The only Israelis who would be displaced by such a move are Israelis who've been part of the illegal settlement program. Which, y'know, war crime.

[Felya]

So it's ok to displace Palestinians but don't touch Israeli's? lmfao Show your bais more.

What displaced Palestinians? I keep repeating that Fatah had a deal that was in final stages, where there wouldn’t have been any additional settlement. None of you care... none of you care that until hamas, Fatah and Israel were working together for the betterment of the Palestinian people... Because happy Palestinians, means happy Israel... you don’t have to worry about bombs, if you actually helping each other, as Fatah were doing with Israel.

Instead, I get that all land needs to be returned, as if what I said wasn’t enough?

No I don't support Hamas. I support Israel returning what they stole. Sadly they can only return the land and not the lives.

Then why is your response to me pointing that hamas withdrew from a deal that would have kept that land and working towards a two state solution... with demanding all the land, in caps and bolded? All the land means, pre British colonization, as in no Israel... as in the very demand hamas made, while pulling out of the deal.

Can hamas return the lives of Fatah and the families they murdered? Do we keep ignoring that part?

[Orange Joe]

They're discussing a return to the 1967 borders, not an abolishment of Israel wholesale. When you exaggerate that badly, you're not attacking their argument any more.

It shows when he thinks it's ok that Israel displaced 7 mil+ Palestinians but asking Israel to return to original borders is insane.

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What displaced Palestinians? I keep repeating that Fatah had a deal that was in final stages, where there wouldn’t have been any additional settlement. None of you care... none of you care that until hamas, Fatah and Israel were working together for the betterment of the Palestinian people... Because happy Palestinians, means happy Israel... you don’t have to worry about bombs, if you actually helping each other, as Fatah were doing with Israel.

Instead, I get that all land needs to be returned, as if what I said wasn’t enough?

Really? What Palestinians?

Then why is your response to me pointing that hamas withdrew from a deal that would have kept that land and working towards a two state solution... with demanding all the land, in caps and bolded? All the land means, pre British colonization, as in no Israel... as in the very demand hamas made, while pulling out of the deal.

Can hamas return the lives of Fatah and the families they murdered? Do we keep ignoring that part?

yeah no I made it clear I've been talking about the UN resolution on the matter.

[Felya]

They're discussing a return to the 1967 borders, not an abolishment of Israel wholesale. When you exaggerate that badly, you're not attacking their argument any more. The only Israelis who would be displaced by such a move are Israelis who've been part of the illegal settlement program. Which, y'know, war crime.

No, they denounces the existence of Israel, upon take over and literally withdrew from negotiations towards that deal. Why do you think Israel, Jordan, Egypt and US were all in agreement supporting Fatah? Egypt, Jordan, Israel, US and at the time leader of Palestinians and Fatah... Arafat... They murdered them and their families... It has been denounced by international community and resulted in withdraw of support.

Again... that was the last successful election for Gaza...

[Orange Joe]

No, they denounces the existence of Israel, upon take over and literally withdrew from negotiations towards that deal. Why do you think Israel, Jordan, Egypt and US were all in agreement supporting Fatah? Egypt, Jordan, Israel, US and at the time leader of Palestinians and Fatah... Arafat... They murdered them and their families... It has been denounced by international community and resulted in withdraw of support.

Again... that was the last successful election for Gaza...

I did? where? only thing I have denounced is Israel stealing land and committing genocide after the UN resolution.

[Endus]

No, they denounces the existence of Israel, upon take over and literally withdrew from negotiations towards that deal. Why do you think Israel, Jordan, Egypt and US were all in agreement supporting Fatah? Egypt, Jordan, Israel, US and at the time leader of Palestinians and Fatah... Arafat... They murdered them and their families... It has been denounced by international community and resulted in withdraw of support.

Again... that was the last successful election for Gaza...

'"They" who? Because I was talking about posters in this thread, none of whom I've seen advocate for abolishing Israel.

Palestinians? That's just factually incorrect. A majority support Israel's existence.

Fatah? Also wrong; they've been pushing for a return to 1967 borders.

Hamas? Sure, they do. But Israel's been actively trying to eliminate Palestine, so Hamas has only ever existed as a reaction. While I don't support them or what they seek, pretending they emerged out of nothing in a vacuum is just . . . wrong.

[Felya]

It shows when he thinks it's ok that Israel displaced 7 mil+ Palestinians but asking Israel to return to original borders is insane.

Yes, which is why I am supporting the part of Palestinian coalition government, that had a deal worked on to create a two state solution. Something I don’t believe you support...

Really? What Palestinians?

Where would that put 2004? You are literally supporting hamas, for backing out of a two state solution, because they didn’t get the land Israeli have been living on for 60 years? Where should those civilians go?