Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[Gaidax]

*snip*

The real one big issue was status of Jerusalem and nothing else.

The settlements can be removed if actual peace agreement reached and it was part of 2002 proposal, the only real problem with 2002 proposal was Jerusalem and it all stuck there until they all ran out of time. Another smaller issue was the town of Ariel, but that was to be solved by giving up a chunk of Israeli land within 67 borders.

The right of return won't be happening under any Israeli PM, so might as well stop dreaming about it right there. Jerusalem on the other hand, I believe a deal there would be possible, but that's like the pinnacle of it all, there won't be anything without other parts cleared and agreed upon first.

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Actually, omeomorfismo comparing Hamas ceasing terrorism to asking poors not to starve is a pretty radical statement of Palestinian terrorist essentialism.

The continuing terrorism is a pretty clear indicator that they think it’s working in the international field, or they’re too fundamentally opposed to Israel’s right to exist to care about negotiated outcomes anyways.

The obvious proof against most of the arguments on the last two pages is the Palestinian Arab allies abandoning solidarity with them to sign separate diplomatic normalization and trade deals with Israel. These are countries that held out for decades thinking pan-Arab solidarity would be used by Palestinian leadership for two-state talks and eventual peace. And they’ve given up on waiting around for Hamas and Fatah to bargain in good faith.

Pretty much.

[Cringefest]

Actually, omeomorfismo comparing Hamas ceasing terrorism to asking poors not to starve is a pretty radical statement of Palestinian terrorist essentialism.

The continuing terrorism is a pretty clear indicator that they think it’s working in the international field, or they’re too fundamentally opposed to Israel’s right to exist to care about negotiated outcomes anyways.

The obvious proof against most of the arguments on the last two pages is the Palestinian Arab allies abandoning solidarity with them to sign separate diplomatic normalization and trade deals with Israel. These are countries that held out for decades thinking pan-Arab solidarity would be used by Palestinian leadership for two-state talks and eventual peace. And they’ve given up on waiting around for Hamas and Fatah to bargain in good faith.

Yes. And then there is reality, as in the world we live in.
The continuing terrorism is a sign of continued oppression, obviously, what else could it possibly be. It's not like hamas members are doing well for themselves are they. Also, they are not too fundamentally opposed to work with Israel, as shown several times in this thread, by them agreeing to work with Israel diplomatically on a two states solution based on 1967 borders.

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The real one big issue was status of Jerusalem and nothing else.

The settlements can be removed if actual peace agreement reached and it was part of 2002 proposal, the only real problem with 2002 proposal was Jerusalem and it all stuck there until they all ran out of time. Another smaller issue was the town of Ariel, but that was to be solved by giving up a chunk of Israeli land within 67 borders.

The right of return won't be happening under any Israeli PM, so might as well stop dreaming about it right there. Jerusalem on the other hand, I believe a deal there would be possible, but that's like the pinnacle of it all, there won't be anything without other parts cleared and agreed upon first.

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Pretty much.

So there's not going to be a deal ever, as Jerusalem can't be the capital of Israel. There was a reason why it was considered neutral territory, divided into Arab and Israeli sections.

[Endus]

The right of return won't be happening under any Israeli PM, so might as well stop dreaming about it right there.

And yet, you support Israel enforcing their "right of return" in East Jerusalem.

Quotes used because East Jerusalem is occupied territory and said "right of return" involves committing war crimes.

This is the root problem; Israel will not accept an equitable solution.

[Cringefest]

And yet, you support Israel enforcing their "right of return" in East Jerusalem.

Quotes used because East Jerusalem is occupied territory and said "right of return" involves committing war crimes.

Yes but not filthy Arabs Endus come on keep up.

[Endus]

So there's not going to be a deal ever, as Jerusalem can't be the capital of Israel. There was a reason why it was considered neutral territory, divided into Arab and Israeli sections.

They could do it in theory. West Jerusalem as capital of Israel, East Jerusalem as capital of Palestine. Much like East and West Berlin, during the Cold War (though ideally, without the wall, I'm speaking to the idea of a city split between nations). But both sides would have to accept that for it to work.

[Gaidax]

And yet, you support Israel enforcing their "right of return" in East Jerusalem.

Quotes used because East Jerusalem is occupied territory and said "right of return" involves committing war crimes.

This is the root problem; Israel will not accept an equitable solution.

I don't need to support anything, we're there already, so joke's on you.

Yes, as Israeli citizen I have interests aligning with Israel. Shocking.

You can twist it all as much as you want, but I simply give an outlook on situation that is not coming from some dudes living in Canada who do not know shit about what's what except for what they read in their favorite propaganda feed.

I mean, can't really expect much, when apparently Hamas stopping projectile attacks is likened to proposing of ending world hunger by telling people to "just eat lol". Some people here are so brainwashed they even go as far as that, it's just sad. Just what are you guys listening to or reading there.

[Endus]

I don't need to support anything, we're there already, so joke's on you.

"Neener neener, you can't stop us war criming!" is quite a take.

You can twist it all as much as you want, but I simply give an outlook on situation that is not coming from some dudes living in Canada who do not know shit about what's what except for what they read in their favorite propaganda feed.

So because I'm not so directly involved as to be clearly biased, my perception should be discarded as insufficiently biased?

I mean, can't really expect much, when apparently Hamas stopping projectile attacks is likened to proposing of ending world hunger by telling people to "just eat lol". Some people here are so brainwashed they even go as far as that, it's just sad. Just what are you guys listening to or reading there.

Highly-respected international media sources.

Taking a Trump-like stance of "FAKE NEWS" to the global mass media is asinine.

[Gaidax]

"Neener neener, you can't stop us war criming!" is quite a take.

That's a take in your mind only, pal.

But I don't mind, in the end the dogs bark, but the caravan goes on. We get our expanded relationships with various Arab countries which are tired of Hamas BS as much as us and every year we have another embassy or two moving to Jerusalem.

In the end wild takes like yours simply don't lead to anything. Same goes for Hamas, it has Gaza for 15 years and what does it have to show for it? More stockpiled rockets and bunkers? OK, if they think it's great for their people, fine by us really.

Peace would be great, but if that's how it goes, we can take it too.

P.S. Don't bother responding, I added you to block and filter. I had enough of "war crimes" bullshit from you, pal. I have no problem engaging people posting in good faith, trolling though - hard pass.

P.S.2. I'll be adding to instant filtered block everyone else who will come up with snarky/trolly responses. Don't bother yourselves. I don't mind putting a few dozen people on ignore if I have to, to make the whole thing civil.

[shimerra]

That's a take in your mind only, pal.

But I don't mind, in the end the dogs bark, but the caravan goes on. We get our expanded relationships with various Arab countries which are tired of Hamas BS as much as us and every year we have another embassy or two moving to Jerusalem.

In the end wild takes like yours simply don't lead to anything. Same goes for Hamas, it has Gaza for 15 years and what does it have to show for it? More stockpiled rockets and bunkers? OK, if they think it's great for their people, fine by us really.

Peace would be great, but if that's how it goes, we can take it too.

P.S. Don't bother responding, I added you to block and filter. I had enough of "war crimes" bullshit from you, pal. I have no problem engaging people posting in good faith, trolling though - hard pass.

Yeah burying your head in the sand. Always a great choice.

[Endus]

In the end wild takes like yours simply don't lead to anything. Same goes for Hamas, it has Gaza for 15 years and what does it have to show for it? More stockpiled rockets and bunkers? OK, if they think it's great for their people, fine by us really.

"Wild takes" like Amnesty International; https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries...n-territories/

Or, y'know, pretty much the entire international community; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...li_settlements

Or the ongoing investigation into said war crimes, by the International Criminal Court, just approved as of March this year that they have full jurisdiction to do so; https://www.icc-cpi.int/Pages/item.a...tion-palestine

But I'm the extremist.

As a side note, even though I know Gaidax can't hear me, I want to point out that these forums are public discussions, and there's an audience. My posts are often for that audience, more than the individual I am responding to. Being on Ignore does not change that.

[Cringefest]

They could do it in theory. West Jerusalem as capital of Israel, East Jerusalem as capital of Palestine. Much like East and West Berlin, during the Cold War (though ideally, without the wall, I'm speaking to the idea of a city split between nations). But both sides would have to accept that for it to work.

Considering what's happening in east Jerusalem, chances are it's not going to work.

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That's a take in your mind only, pal.

But I don't mind, in the end the dogs bark, but the caravan goes on. We get our expanded relationships with various Arab countries which are tired of Hamas BS as much as us and every year we have another embassy or two moving to Jerusalem.

In the end wild takes like yours simply don't lead to anything. Same goes for Hamas, it has Gaza for 15 years and what does it have to show for it? More stockpiled rockets and bunkers? OK, if they think it's great for their people, fine by us really.

Peace would be great, but if that's how it goes, we can take it too.

P.S. Don't bother responding, I added you to block and filter. I had enough of "war crimes" bullshit from you, pal. I have no problem engaging people posting in good faith, trolling though - hard pass.

P.S.2. I'll be adding to instant filtered block everyone else who will come up with snarky/trolly responses. Don't bother yourselves. I don't mind putting a few dozen people on ignore if I have to, to make the whole thing civil.

The caravan goes on, till it doesn't anymore. And when the caravan stops it's going to be fairly messy.

[Xarkan]

They could do it in theory. West Jerusalem as capital of Israel, East Jerusalem as capital of Palestine. Much like East and West Berlin, during the Cold War (though ideally, without the wall, I'm speaking to the idea of a city split between nations). But both sides would have to accept that for it to work.

The capitol of west germany was Bonn though

[postman1782]

That's a take in your mind only, pal.

But I don't mind, in the end the dogs bark, but the caravan goes on. We get our expanded relationships with various Arab countries which are tired of Hamas BS as much as us and every year we have another embassy or two moving to Jerusalem.

In the end wild takes like yours simply don't lead to anything. Same goes for Hamas, it has Gaza for 15 years and what does it have to show for it? More stockpiled rockets and bunkers? OK, if they think it's great for their people, fine by us really.

Peace would be great, but if that's how it goes, we can take it too.

P.S. Don't bother responding, I added you to block and filter. I had enough of "war crimes" bullshit from you, pal. I have no problem engaging people posting in good faith, trolling though - hard pass.

P.S.2. I'll be adding to instant filtered block everyone else who will come up with snarky/trolly responses. Don't bother yourselves. I don't mind putting a few dozen people on ignore if I have to, to make the whole thing civil.

Guess you are going to enjoy talking to racists then, because the rest of us know that Israel is in the wrong here.

[Collegeguy]

Should probably give back all of the land they stole in the first fucking place.

What people did they even steal land from?

[omeomorfismo]

Actually, omeomorfismo comparing Hamas ceasing terrorism to asking poors not to starve is a pretty radical statement of Palestinian terrorist essentialism.

The continuing terrorism is a pretty clear indicator that they think it’s working in the international field, or they’re too fundamentally opposed to Israel’s right to exist to care about negotiated outcomes anyways.

The obvious proof against most of the arguments on the last two pages is the Palestinian Arab allies abandoning solidarity with them to sign separate diplomatic normalization and trade deals with Israel. These are countries that held out for decades thinking pan-Arab solidarity would be used by Palestinian leadership for two-state talks and eventual peace. And they’ve given up on waiting around for Hamas and Fatah to bargain in good faith.

omegalul.
thats pretty much the biggest warping i ever read. gg, that wasnt easy

[postman1782]

What people did they even steal land from?

Palestine. Before 1947, Israel as a country, did not exist. It was only given to them, and a tiny portion of it, by NATO after WW2. Ever since then, with the backing of the US and other countries wanting to bring about the apocalypse, are trying to prop up a country that shouldn't exist.

[postman1782]

israel shouldn't exist? lol what the fuck...

Before 1947, there was no country that was called Israel. So yes, they should not exist. Palestine was there, and the only reason that Israel is there now, is because they had stronger backers.

[postman1782]

lol... that's just silly... a lot of countries today shouldn't exist then by this measure...

Wrong. They were installed because of the EU, NATO, and the US. You should probably do a tiny bit of research before you prove how ignorant you are on the subject.

https://www.history.com/topics/middl...tory-of-israel

Israeli Independence
The United Nations approved a plan to partition Palestine into a Jewish and Arab state in 1947, but the Arabs rejected it.

In May 1948, Israel was officially declared an independent state with David Ben-Gurion, the head of the Jewish Agency, as the prime minister.

While this historic event seemed to be a victory for Jews, it also marked the beginning of more violence with the Arabs.

[Fandis]

Before 1947, there was no country that was called Israel. So yes, they should not exist. Palestine was there, and the only reason that Israel is there now, is because they had stronger backers.

Can you please name a few presidents/prime ministers/sultans of Palestine? Their national currency? national anthem? the achievements of their national olympic team?
Oh let me guess, you can't? I have another question, why was the glorious state of Palestine (as opposed to a geographical location called Palestine, 2 very different things) not mentioned in any documents of those times, not even the UN ones? maybe because it has only existed in your imagination?

[postman1782]

no... pretty much all countries exist today because they were backed by stronger people in the past than the losers...

Jesus fucking christ, how delusional are you? I literally linked you that the country didn't exist, and you are still on about this bullshit?

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Can you please name a few presidents/prime ministers/sultans of Palestine? Their national currency? national anthem? the achievements of their national olympic team?
Oh let me guess, you can't? I have another question, why was the glorious state of Palestine (as opposed to a geographical location called Palestine, 2 very different things) not mentioned in any documents of those times, not even the UN ones? maybe because it has only existed in your imagination?

Well, they haven't been a country since yours started stealing their land.