1. #2801
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    I don't think the IDF desperately needs the support from the USA to be able to keep defending it's claimed territories anymore either at this point. I'm not even sure if the reason as to why Israel has the military power it has, is really important, unless you believe that the goal should be for the USA to stop supporting Israel... which to me just sounds a roundabout way of saying you'd like more Israeli civilians to get bombed and destabilizing the region even further.
    Your posts age like milk.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/1-bill...separate-bill/

    US Democrats introduced standalone legislation late Wednesday to provide Israel with $1 billion for its Iron Dome missile defense system after the funding was struck off a government spending bill amid pressure from progressive lawmakers.

    This funding is on top of the 3+ Billion they get in aid every year from the United States. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why the IDF does whatever it wants to Palestinians with no repercussions. They know nobody will do anything about it while they have the full funding and backing of the USA.

    And before I'm accused of wanting Hamas rockets to hit Israel by bad-faith, shitposters: No, I don't want to see Israeli civilians die from Hamas rockets. But if they're going to insist on war-criming Palestinians on a regular basis then they should fuck off and pay for this shit themselves.
    Last edited by downnola; 2021-09-25 at 04:51 PM.
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  2. #2802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    You know the other telling thing? I can't actually recall a single person on this forum who advocates for more humane treatment of Palestinians try to justify Hamas' attacks or even support Hamas' existence. Compare to most if not all the people shilling for Israel who absolutely go out of their way to not only justify Israel's attacks on Palestine as necessary but also an eminent good.
    First there was absolutely a "what's wrong with Hamas?" post in this thread, from one of the prominent "Palestinian supporters" of these forums. No, I'm not gonna go thru 150 pages to find you a link. More importantly however, every post that says "Hamas is bad but...they are doing it cause evil Israeli court decision" or "Hamas is bad but.... they are doing it cause evil Israeli police is trying to arrest some rioters hiding in a mosque" or "Hamas is bad but...blah blah blah someone is settling in your backyard" is not a post criticizing Hamas but rather a post defending Hamas, and those are the majority of posts I'm seeing here. Thinking there is ANY excuse for shelling civilian population centers with thousands of rockets = supporting terrorism.

    But what can you expect from simple pro-Palestinian posters if your beloved international community and the UN fail to condemn shelling Israeli cities by Hamas
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...-condemn-hamas (must be biased pro-Israel reporting btw, those damn Zionist supporters of Aljazeera) back in 2018, that's when there were no any large scale IDF responses to the Palestinian attacks.
    Or when the honey of most British pro-Palestinians Jeremy Corbyn explicitly calls Hamas and Hezbollah, the 2 organizations bent on exterminating all Jews (not just in Israel) his friends https://www.facebook.com/hillelneuer...7277405491729/ . I have little doubt that quite a few posters in this thread who supposedly "don't support Hamas" have voted for this guy despite being aware of this.

    Gee, maybe it's because the attitudes towards Palestinians in this thread are very clearly colored by bias, as evidenced by excusing Israel's acts of violence but not Hamas' as well as your constant conflation of Hamas with the Palestinian population at large to justify Israeli reprisal against civilians.

    You know, just like American racists like to conflate every Mexican with the cartels to justify brutalizing immigrants and asylum seekers. Check yourself.
    And yet Hamas is the elected Palestinian government, that the Palestinians have failed to get rid of since electing them in 2006, or even failed to stop supporting them. But it's just in Gaza right? No it's not, Hamas is extremely popular in the West Bank too, and the only reason the moderate Fatah terrorists stay in power there is because of the IDF presence. The day IDF withdraws will be the day Mahmoud Abbas and his cronies are hanging on the trees in Ramallah. Not exactly surprising he wants to keep status quo and thus making impossible demands of Israel to make sure no agreement is ever achieved.
    So where were we? Oh yeah the elected government. Only in the entire history of mankind simple people had to pay the price for the actions of their rulers, and in most cases they didn't even have a say in who those rulers were. here Palestinians absolutely do have a say, and yet y'all don't consider them responsible? Of course civilians purposely being targeted is still not justified, good thing IDF isn't doing that, however living in poverty as well as having occasional unfortunate casualties of war that their beloved elected terrorists start every few years are the consequences of their poor choice.
    Many leftists so love trying to dehumanize Trump voters or Johnson voters or Le Pen voters or Netanyahu voters yet somehow have no problem with Hamas voters and don't think they are responsible for anything. Funny isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post

    When you treat a people like shit they tend to eventually fight back.
    "When someone treats me poorly, it's ok to engage in terrorism".
    Oh and the word eventually assumes there was ever a time in the modern history when Palestinians/Arabs were not attacking Israel/Jews. Except there wasn't. And I'm not even talking about the time after the so called "occupation", and not even after the creation of Israel. Try a few decades before that.
    Last edited by Fandis; 2021-09-24 at 11:04 AM.

  3. #2803
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fandis View Post
    "When someone treats me poorly, it's ok to engage in terrorism".
    Oh and the word eventually assumes there was ever a time in the modern history when Palestinians/Arabs were not attacking Israel/Jews. Except there wasn't. And I'm not even talking about the time after the so called "occupation", and not even after the creation of Israel. Try a few decades before that.
    ... poorly..... yeah they are only treated poorly.... they aren't terrorized themselves.....
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  4. #2804
    Quote Originally Posted by Fandis View Post
    First there was absolutely a "what's wrong with Hamas?" post in this thread, from one of the prominent "Palestinian supporters" of these forums. No, I'm not gonna go thru 150 pages to find you a link. More importantly however, every post that says "Hamas is bad but...they are doing it cause evil Israeli court decision" or "Hamas is bad but.... they are doing it cause evil Israeli police is trying to arrest some rioters hiding in a mosque" or "Hamas is bad but...blah blah blah someone is settling in your backyard" is not a post criticizing Hamas but rather a post defending Hamas, and those are the majority of posts I'm seeing here. Thinking there is ANY excuse for shelling civilian population centers with thousands of rockets = supporting terrorism.
    It's been pointed out before to no effect.

    Decrying Hamas and their actions is humane with respect to the Palestinian people not engaging in the violence. Hamas rocket misfires, estimated somewhere between 1/5 and 1/3, kill Palestinian lives. International pressure on Hamas, sanctions, rejection from their foreign backers all lead to more humane treatment and living conditions for Palestinians. If we take out active supporters of Hamas terrorism, they're major victims of the actions of Hamas alongside with Israeli civilians. But there's something that goes haywire rooting for the little guy no matter the circumstances, some mental fixation on a false pseudo-colonialism narrative, the distance of Israel that allows complacency regarding alarm sirens ringing out every night for rocket attacks, or buried strains of anti-Semitism, that leads to all this behavior.

    "When someone treats me poorly, it's ok to engage in terrorism".
    Oh and the word eventually assumes there was ever a time in the modern history when Palestinians/Arabs were not attacking Israel/Jews. Except there wasn't. And I'm not even talking about the time after the so called "occupation", and not even after the creation of Israel. Try a few decades before that.
    Theodarzna or Gaidax or someone observed how history of grievances always conveniently starts right when Israel is alleged to have done wrong. When you bring up history prior to 1948, or prior to whatever land dispute justified the current round of terrorism, they justify ignorance and dismiss it all.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  5. #2805
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fandis View Post
    First there was absolutely a "what's wrong with Hamas?" post in this thread, from one of the prominent "Palestinian supporters" of these forums. No, I'm not gonna go thru 150 pages to find you a link. More importantly however, every post that says "Hamas is bad but...they are doing it cause evil Israeli court decision" or "Hamas is bad but.... they are doing it cause evil Israeli police is trying to arrest some rioters hiding in a mosque" or "Hamas is bad but...blah blah blah someone is settling in your backyard" is not a post criticizing Hamas but rather a post defending Hamas, and those are the majority of posts I'm seeing here. Thinking there is ANY excuse for shelling civilian population centers with thousands of rockets = supporting terrorism.
    This is a framing that only makes sense if you only consider that one side must be "good" and the other "bad".

    One side being "bad" and the other side being "also bad" is absolutely a possibility.

    You're right that shelling civilian population centers with rockets is terrible. Israel does it too. Causing significantly more damage and fatalities in the process.

    Oh and the word eventually assumes there was ever a time in the modern history when Palestinians/Arabs were not attacking Israel/Jews. Except there wasn't. And I'm not even talking about the time after the so called "occupation", and not even after the creation of Israel. Try a few decades before that.
    Yeah, this is just an islamophobic lie. There was a fairly long stretch of history where Jewish peoples were fleeing medieval Europe and seeking sanctuary, successfully, in Muslim nations.


  6. #2806
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fandis View Post
    First there was absolutely a "what's wrong with Hamas?" post in this thread, from one of the prominent "Palestinian supporters" of these forums. No, I'm not gonna go thru 150 pages to find you a link.
    Source: "Trust me, bro."

    Pass.

    More importantly however, every post that says "Hamas is bad but...they are doing it cause evil Israeli court decision" or "Hamas is bad but.... they are doing it cause evil Israeli police is trying to arrest some rioters hiding in a mosque" or "Hamas is bad but...blah blah blah someone is settling in your backyard" is not a post criticizing Hamas but rather a post defending Hamas
    Explanation of motivation is not justification; versus the pro-Israel posters who, as said, not only try to justify it but pa

    Thinking there is ANY excuse for shelling civilian population centers with thousands of rockets = supporting terrorism.
    Good to know you've admitted Israel is engaging in terrorism as well.

    Many leftists so love trying to dehumanize Trump voters or Johnson voters or Le Pen voters or Netanyahu voters yet somehow have no problem with Hamas voters and don't think they are responsible for anything. Funny isn't it?
    Key difference is we aren't using our criticism of you lot to justify occupation of your lands and attacks against your civilian population.

    Really thought this was a clever analogy, didn't you?:

    Oh and the word eventually assumes there was ever a time in the modern history when Palestinians/Arabs were not attacking Israel/Jews. Except there wasn't. And I'm not even talking about the time after the so called "occupation", and not even after the creation of Israel. Try a few decades before that.
    Bruh, Jews literally had dhimmi protection. Why do you think so many of them settled in the Ottoman Empire after you lot expelled them from Europe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  7. #2807
    And in the conflict, I’d be remiss if I didn’t add my hearty congratulations to both parties in Congress for one billion dollars of Iron Dome funding for Israel. They are an important ally of the US and expended thousands of missiles defending their civilians from terrorist attack. The 420-9 vote of approval is an important signal to the world that the US stands with Israel, and that the issue rises above high partisan rancor currently dividing America.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  8. #2808
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    And in the conflict, I’d be remiss if I didn’t add my hearty congratulations to both parties in Congress for one billion dollars of Iron Dome funding for Israel.
    Nah, you're remiss for adding this nonsense.

    Sending a billion overseas to prop up an apartheid state that should be paying for its own security when the services and infrastructure in the US are at crisis levels is beyond irresponsible and a clear marker that y'all seem to care more about Israelis than your fellow Americans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  9. #2809
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    And in the conflict, I’d be remiss if I didn’t add my hearty congratulations to both parties in Congress for one billion dollars of Iron Dome funding for Israel. They are an important ally of the US and expended thousands of missiles defending their civilians from terrorist attack. The 420-9 vote of approval is an important signal to the world that the US stands with Israel, and that the issue rises above high partisan rancor currently dividing America.
    Yep, glad to see that nonsense dealt with fast. Extra pleasure from seeing some seething in powerless rage.

  10. #2810
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Bruh, Jews literally had dhimmi protection. Why do you think so many of them settled in the Ottoman Empire after you lot expelled them from Europe?
    Pay tax and you may live... peacefully... most of the time...

    Had to be great!
    /s
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  11. #2811
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    And in the conflict, I’d be remiss if I didn’t add my hearty congratulations to both parties in Congress for one billion dollars of Iron Dome funding for Israel. They are an important ally of the US and expended thousands of missiles defending their civilians from terrorist attack. The 420-9 vote of approval is an important signal to the world that the US stands with Israel, and that the issue rises above high partisan rancor currently dividing America.
    Wait I thought welfare was bad? or it good when we giving it to rich countries? not that it matters that we give scraps to Israel but I am always baffled by people celebrating when we throw money down the drain like subsidies to oil companies.

  12. #2812
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Pay tax and you may live... peacefully... most of the time...
    Better than what was going on in Europe at the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #2813
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Better than what was going on in Europe at the time.
    really showing their hand trying to downplay European pogroms.... yeah we need a Jewish state, over there, NOT HERE!

  14. #2814
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Yep, glad to see that nonsense dealt with fast. Extra pleasure from seeing some seething in powerless rage.
    Any particular reason you can't pay for your own defense? I thought Israel was a democracy with a prosperous economy? Israel is incapable of funding its own defense? If your country couldn't pass an infrastructure bill due to partisan hackery, despite those partisans rushing to spend billions on another countries defense in the middle of a pandemic, you'd be a little fucking miffed about it too.
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
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  15. #2815
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Yep, glad to see that nonsense dealt with fast. Extra pleasure from seeing some seething in powerless rage.
    Gloating about stealing other people's money is kind of gauche, tbh, especially if said people are in hardship.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  16. #2816
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Gloating about stealing other people's money is kind of gauche, tbh, especially if said people are in hardship.
    The way I see 1 billion dollars is rather cheap for a puppet government, we spent far more in Afghanistan for nothing in return.

  17. #2817
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Gloating about stealing other people's money is kind of gauche, tbh, especially if said people are in hardship.
    he doesn't care, so long as someone else pays the bill while he sits back and watches Palestinian's get blown to bits he's having a grand old time.

  18. #2818
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    The way I see 1 billion dollars is rather cheap for a puppet government
    Without ever having established the need for such a government, and that is still a billion dollars that could be spent on literally anything else.

    Sending money to an apartheid state that is more than capable of looking to its own defenses while millions of Americans are suffering in practice is, again, irresponsible and stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  19. #2819
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-r...n-dome-1632385

    Such a shame the US house has only like 8 decent members

    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Any particular reason you can't pay for your own defense? I thought Israel was a democracy with a prosperous economy? Israel is incapable of funding its own defense? If your country couldn't pass an infrastructure bill due to partisan hackery, despite those partisans rushing to spend billions on another countries defense in the middle of a pandemic, you'd be a little fucking miffed about it too.
    Why pay for it when the US loves Israel so much even the ""Progressives" will help you fund whatever you need? Some states even have laws against boycotting Isreal.

  20. #2820
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-r...n-dome-1632385

    Such a shame the US house has only like 8 decent members
    Hyep:

    Representative Ted Deutch of Florida, a Democrat, also took aim at Tlaib.

    "I cannot allow one of my colleagues to stand on the floor of the House of Representatives and label the Jewish democratic state of Israel an apartheid state," Deutch said. "To falsely characterize the state of Israel is consistent with those who, let's be clear, it's consistent with those who advocate for the dismantling of the one Jewish state in the world," he said.

    "When there is no place on the map for one Jewish state, that's anti-Semitism and I reject that," Deutch added.
    Basically, "unless you support ethnonationalism, you're an anti-semite". Which is mildly hilarious since Israel only exists because of European antisemites wanting Jewish people out of Europe.

    But don't worry guys they're still hugely sympathetic towards Palestinians, they just won't do jack shit to actually help them. /s

    Last edited by Elegiac; 2021-09-25 at 07:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

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