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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Assuming that a random poster you don't even know is being flamed in M+ because he/she is bad is as toxic as it gets. Maybe that's why you don't notice the toxicity, you are already part of the crowd, who knows. Not that I particularly care
    I don’t think people log into the game and want to be toxic that day. I think people are just frustrated and let that frustration out. And they target the person who messes up with stuff that shouldn’t happen anymore at decent M+ levels.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    Check out the "alternative idea" at the bottom of the first post. That addresses the problem of not having gear translate to other areas of the game while keeping PvE and PvP separated as they should be IMO.
    I did check it. And I'm not trying to be dismissive, but here's the problem I see: not only Blizzard will have to increase the rewards for open world from somewhere, but they have to create this whole new system of the pve and pvp buffs, which have be to progress based and balanced. Then a player who's been away on vacation/sick/quit/personal life/other reasons, comes back to his raiding team who have done some progress while he was away, and he is at a disadvantage because he didn't pass the treshold for the next step of the buff. Or when a guild does team rotation, or when a raider switches to a good geared alt because its more useful on a particular fight. Our guild, for example, doesn't do mythic reclears or does them rarely after we're halfway done with the raid, since we raid only 2 days a week, we need max time to progress harder bosses. So it will create problems, not even talking about the top end guilds. The way I see it, it will impact the race. And for what? To give non-raiders extra progression. You know its not worth it as it creates more problems than it solves. There may be other problems, which didn't pop into my head right away. Also the community doesn't really like new game systems. I doubt raiders will be happy with doing X amount of damage in raid or dungeon, then 10-20% less in the open world.

    Which is why I emphasized that what I proposed doesn't touch raiding or rated pvp community, it only changes the non-raid/dungeon/pvp gear and is much easier to implement, and doesn't need that much balancing since its non-competitive content. People do not care about the damage of others, they care about their damage. If it decreases for them in the open world, its not good. On the other side, the 'casual' people, who want better gear, they don't intend on doing instanced content, so they won't feel the drop in their power when the set bonus stops working, since they won't get into those situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    I have considered your idea of just putting the bonus on the world content gear. But then you have the problem of explaining where it does and doesn't work. Does it only work in SLs? Does it also work in the Maw? What about Torghast?
    'while in outdoor areas in Shadowlands and the Maw' - that note should be enough to explain it. I think the current covenant set bonus has a similar description, didn't check. Toys have similar descriptions about their restrictions. Where exactly it will work, its up to developers to decide. But the way I see it - its shadowlands gear, so it works in all the outdoor zones that are part of the expansion. Non SL zones don't need bonuses, since we outlevel those. If the zone is released in SL expansion but not as a part of Shadowlands themselves (like were Nazjatar, Argus, Vale/Uldum in 8.3) it is still covered by the set bonus, since its the current expansion's content.

    Torghast? I did mention it as well. I would make a separate gear set with its own bonus (can be a smaller set than a regular outdoor one, like a 6-8 piece) that is sold by Maw vendor, like Ven'ari seels Torghast improvements right now, for the Maw currency. That will make doing the Maw more desirable to do, and with mounts allowed there in 9.1, my proposed bonus set increasing performance there, no eye of the jailer, Maw will be much less annoying to do. The set bonus will be rather simple, aimed at bridging the ilvl gap between raiders and soloers, by increasing the latter damage, stamina, healing. As a result, these players will be able to complete higher levels, will have a sense of gear and content progression and still avoiding any group content.


    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    And then there is warmode which becomes a very sticky situation. It would still have to work there because that is indeed world content. So how is that balanced against other players in PvP gear? If any potential problems with warmode were solved, then that might be the best route to take. But, I don't have a definitive answer to that big question mark.
    Again, I did mention it, the bonus will simply not work while in combat with other players. They can easily add that restriction. It can potentially cause some griefing issues, but not like there aren't any now; and if someone is bothered by it, they can switch WM off. Also, I think the type of players we're discussing here are the ones who want to play a solo sandbox game, so pretty confident, they won't play with warmode to begin with. On the other hand, its world PvP, all is fair, if high levels can gank the crap out of lowbies, obliterate enemy faction's quest hubs, if a geared PvPer can grief casual PvEer with WM on, why disable the set bonus at all? Depending on their design, they can even give the solo player an edge, and let them fend for themselves. Why the hell not )))

    To each their own, of course, but I believe this is the better solution for the solo player gear progression (not trying to diminish the effort you put into yours). Mainly, because it doesn't affect performance of end-game players in any way, compared to what you were proposing. I'd be pretty happy if such system was implemented, even though I'm not a solo player, but if it will make a chunck of the community happy and make the world more alive and relevant, I'm all up for it.

  3. #183
    Thanks @Surfacin9 for the really good feedback and discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacin9 View Post
    Then a player who's been away on vacation/sick/quit/personal life/other reasons, comes back to his raiding team who have done some progress while he was away, and he is at a disadvantage because he didn't pass the treshold for the next step of the buff. Or when a guild does team rotation, or when a raider switches to a good geared alt because its more useful on a particular fight.
    This indeed could be problematic. You have a very good point. In some ways, I imagined it being something similar to attunements from the past. Something that adds to the strategy of raiding. But it could possibly cause more grief than good with the way things are today. People hate any inconvenience.

    Also, similar things have happened to me in the past in relation to gear. Twice, I missed the kill for this one particular boss that dropped my BIS weapon. And then the guild decided to push into the next tier of difficulty. That was so frustrating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacin9 View Post
    'while in outdoor areas in Shadowlands and the Maw' - that note should be enough to explain it. I think the current covenant set bonus has a similar description, didn't check.
    Unfortunately, Covenant gear doesn't work in the maw. I'm not sure why they chose to go that route. Personally, I think that was a missed opportunity because many players at that ilvl just refuse to go there because it can be a pain until you get better gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacin9 View Post
    To each their own, of course, but I believe this is the better solution for the solo player gear progression (not trying to diminish the effort you put into yours). Mainly, because it doesn't affect performance of end-game players in any way, compared to what you were proposing. I'd be pretty happy if such system was implemented, even though I'm not a solo player, but if it will make a chunck of the community happy and make the world more alive and relevant, I'm all up for it.
    Keeping players subbed and active in world content should be a big priority. Blizz makes more money and we get that good feeling of being in an active and busy world. That's supposed to be one of the big draws for MMOs. So hopefully they take some sort of measures to make something happen.
    Last edited by Clash the DK; 2021-05-19 at 05:26 PM.

  4. #184
    They should just copy the badge gear system from FFXIV. That's all the casual players really want. Run some LFG, some LFR, some daily quests and slowly work towards the second best gear in the game.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    I wasn't trolling. I was thinking of Azerite Traits instead of Essences. There were way too many temporary systems in BfA...

    Nevertheless, my point still stands. Those are still not comparable to the example I provided (+5-20% to all stats). And honestly, that amount may be too much for any system to provide. That might double or triple your damage output. But go ahead and call it trash if you like.

    Also, I like the idea of the system. You are rewarded extra power for progressing, just not in the shape of gear. The higher you achieve, the more you are rewarded. The bonuses are simple so that they can easily translate between Raids / Dungeons in PvE and then Arena / BGs for PvP. You wouldn't want something like this to be too complicated or narrow in how it applies to the game. It's something you plan around, but the intent is for it to be passive.

    As I've said before, the problem with other current systems is when they try to stack too many on top of each other. Otherwise, they are fine. And I'm not sure why bring up class balance into the conversation, because that will never be balanced. They slot them in a preordained pecking order. And then they rotate things throughout every expansion. It's not like they forget about something. They do it on purpose.
    I'm sorry but you're part of the problem if you think it's too much work to actually design systems properly, period.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    They should just copy the badge gear system from FFXIV. That's all the casual players really want. Run some LFG, some LFR, some daily quests and slowly work towards the second best gear in the game.
    What is the second best gear in WoW? Do you realize that WoW ilvls are a spectrum?

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    What is the second best gear in WoW? Do you realize that WoW ilvls are a spectrum?
    Equivalent to heroic raid gear.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    You know the moment in TBC where people started to let terrible players call themselves casuals and stopped calling them out really was the moment the community lost control of itself.
    Actually the moment the community lost coontrol of itself is when the elitists declared that anyone who doesn't play like them are terrible and do not count.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Equivalent to heroic raid gear.
    So fuck heroic raiders?

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    So fuck heroic raiders?
    In FFXIV a raider get their gear in like a month, a casual grinding that same gear through LFG and LFR gets it in like 6 months. If a casual getting the same gear as a heroic raider half a year later fractures their ego then yeah, fuck em.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    But they already hand out gear from a vendor; It's called raiding. And it's not that hard. Having a specific time commitment for playing a game is difficult and I will give you that. But the game in general is not that hard. If you spend time playing the game, you should be able to progress your character no matter what.

    You have to armory vet every person in PvP. Why would doing the same in PvE be a problem? And also, is Blizz not adding RIO for M+?

    Regarding your last statement.....What I have proposed does not "cater" to people who like to play solo. It doesn't cater to anybody. The plan offers gear progression for everybody no matter what type of content you prefer. Just because someone gains high ilvl gear from world content doesn't mean they are going to join your raid group and smash your epeen on the damage meters. World content gear would be missing the raid set bonus which makes a huge difference. Going forward, ilvl will be what it should be, a number that identifies your power in world content which is in reality the only place in the game where you will genuinely feel power upgrades in the first place.
    Link your mythic kills then.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Actually the moment the community lost coontrol of itself is when the elitists declared that anyone who doesn't play like them are terrible and do not count.
    So molten core?

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    In FFXIV a raider get their gear in like a month, a casual grinding that same gear through LFG and LFR gets it in like 6 months. If a casual getting the same gear as a heroic raider half a year later fractures their ego then yeah, fuck em.
    In WoW typically next tier is released in 6 months, and it comes with catch-up and new LFR gear that is usually same ilvl as heroic from previous tier. So there you go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    Unfortunately, Covenant gear doesn't work in the maw. I'm not sure why they chose to go that route. Personally, I think that was a missed opportunity because many players at that ilvl just refuse to go there because it can be a pain until you get better gear.
    Yup, agree to that. Until I was 215+ the Maw was pretty tough, now its a cakewalk.

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