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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by sarym13 View Post
    Agreed. Putting a $35 price tag for a required feature is absurd. If only this was optional.

    Ohwait
    Sure it's optional, but if you want a new character your other option is to spend like 2 weeks of playtime to get it.

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    The fee is for those that want the character to stay on the classic server as well as being cloned onto a BC server. It is free if you pick one or the other. You pay if you want to have it both ways.

    - - - Updated - - -
    They are charging what they think people are willing to pay and they want to get some return on a game they are giving away. If the price is too high don't pay it. If you want the service, than you need to come to terms with the fee. If you can't level up the old way or say good bye to classic on some characters.
    A game that's not free as you have to have a sub to play #1. #2 they are charging for a collectors edition (if you chose) No one in their right mind was willing to pay $35 for a clone. Just like classic was "free" as long as you had a wow sub. Nothing is free get over that already cause that argument is long dead.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Arewn View Post
    Kind of at risk of entering an internet pissing contest over unproveable credentials here, but I'm also going off my professional experience in I.T. with these considerations. And we do have some insight into their infrastructure and costs. As mentioned before, at the very least we know they have no problem offering what is essentially a cloning service for their PTR for free.
    And, as you mentioned, many of us have an idea of how much these kinds of systems tend to cost based on professional experience. I don't see any compelling reason to assume Blizzard is for some reason way out of line in their costs.
    Lets be real here, an automated character copying services isn't something that is going to cost them much to developed or maintain.
    Even if we were to compare the operating costs of your dev environment to.... a single transferring service (not really a fair comparison, but eh), that's still something that would be covered by two or three thousand subscribers.

    There's a lot of ways to restrict it, not much point hashing that out now though since they obviously aren't going to do it. My preferred method would be an initial limit of 2 clones, and then additional clones/interval beyond that. Like one clone per month, or quarterly. This isn't a difficult problem to come up with ideas for.

    Tech has advanced and hosting has become cheaper, plus wages have been stagnant... so of course there's no reason for the sub to increase. I don't think the sub staying at 15 dollars has anything to do with the addition of paid services.
    Not interested in a pissing contest either, but wanted to respond to some of your points:

    - I probably could have clarified: I don't believe Blizzard is paying substantially more for any of the services, considering cloud pricing for most services seems to trend downward or flat.
    - I wasn't intending to compare an entire staging setup to a single service, it was more toward the sentiment in the thread of "all these services should be free it's just copy/pasting files" which is pretty silly. Our production costs are exponentially higher, and I can only assume that's the case for everyone.
    - There are also free template characters on PTR, which are basically boosts, that doesn't mean they should be free in production as well, right?
    - I think the restriction you mentioned would have been a much better option. In-line with their "one boost per account", it makes even more sense for a "one clone per account" or something.

    I disagree somewhat on the tech advancement and stagnant wages. Tech salaries in California are... high. 2020 had them at an avg of $126k starting, and DICE has the 2007 Tech starting salary average at ~$75k (and ~$95k for Silicon Valley).

    Either way, I think we agree on the core point about Blizzard chasing profits, which is sort of a no-brainer.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    isnt it also free for most people who just buy gametime with ISK?
    Not really. You have to put in a fair bit of effort, one way or the other, to make that kind of ISK, and most people that serious have multiple accounts. They probably pay for some of them with ISK, but some with real money. Most people who don't have free accounts (which while they can be fun are highly limited) will be paying real money (though it may not be theirs).

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Not really. You have to put in a fair bit of effort, one way or the other, to make that kind of ISK, and most people that serious have multiple accounts. They probably pay for some of them with ISK, but some with real money. Most people who don't have free accounts (which while they can be fun are highly limited) will be paying real money (though it may not be theirs).
    My bad. I havent played it for a really long time

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    My bad. I havent played it for a really long time
    I think another reason a lot of people don't use ISK alone to pay for their subs is that there's almost always something in-game to spend it on - new ships, better guns, replacement ships, etc. PLEX (game time) has a lot of competition for your ISK in a way that gold doesn't in WoW.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    I think people forget they're intended to be premium services.
    People are already paying a premium just to play the game. They shouldn't be charged premium prices on top of that.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    So just because you personally know classic only players? Lmao literally every source of numbers available shows retail with far more players.

    On US servers alone:

    https://www.wowprogress.com/realms/rank/us

    447k+ players

    EU server:

    https://www.wowprogress.com/realms/rank/eu

    550k+ players

    Looking at all classic servers around the world:

    https://ironforge.pro/servers/

    about 235k players.

    Thanks for playing.
    That was my point. The person I replied to was claiming classic had more players. The players I know that play classic say there is no way it has more than retail since it 1, had a fraction of the servers and 2, most are medium to low populated. It's OK you misunderstood my post.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sicarius87 View Post
    Im sure the other services prices influenced the price of the TBC $35 price tag. Im also sure that they completely ignored the survey that they sent out because im sure no one in their right mind was like "$35 seems like a fair price to pay". If you dont think blizz has to answer to Activision, youre delusional.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's not that Blizz is incapable, but if you think that Activision isnt involved in any way, then you're mistaken. At the end of the day, Activision/Blizzard are companies looking to make money. You would do the same thing if you were in their shoes. Guaranteed.
    Blizzard answers to ActivisionBlizzard. But I'm pretty sure they set their own monetization prices. Seriously, Blizzars has made tons if mistakes and bad decisions before the merger, there is no reason to pass the blame on to someone else.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    - I wasn't intending to compare an entire staging setup to a single service, it was more toward the sentiment in the thread of "all these services should be free it's just copy/pasting files" which is pretty silly. Our production costs are exponentially higher, and I can only assume that's the case for everyone.
    - There are also free template characters on PTR, which are basically boosts, that doesn't mean they should be free in production as well, right?
    I don't think the cost is even meaningful compared to the 13$/month sub. It would pay your transfer and cloning fees for thousands of characters. The 15$ is just pure profit for Blizzard.
    The storage to keep the character data for years should cost more than the transfers, and you can make a lot of characters on your account completely free.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    So just because you personally know classic only players? Lmao literally every source of numbers available shows retail with far more players.

    On US servers alone:

    https://www.wowprogress.com/realms/rank/us

    447k+ players

    EU server:

    https://www.wowprogress.com/realms/rank/eu

    550k+ players

    Looking at all classic servers around the world:

    https://ironforge.pro/servers/

    about 235k players.

    Thanks for playing.
    Tthat's not comparable numbers. Ironforge.pro clearly states it's only players who do logs on WarcraftLogs within 2 weeks. Wowprogress is all players that did any boss in heroic Nyalotha or belongs to a guild that did, logs or not and no time limit.

    I would say half of players don't log and half quit within first few months of expansion. It's pretty equal population if that's accurate.
    Last edited by kukkamies; 2021-05-17 at 11:15 AM.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by kukkamies View Post
    I don't think the cost is even meaningful compared to the 13$/month sub. It would pay your transfer and cloning fees for thousands of characters. The 15$ is just pure profit for Blizzard.
    The storage to keep the character data for years should cost more than the transfers, and you can make a lot of characters on your account completely free.
    Their reported net margins are ~30%, so there are costs somewhere.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    Their reported net margins are ~30%, so there are costs somewhere.
    I could see that ye. For example Customer Service is really big and it's only a loss. So some others have to be very high profits. Marketing is maybe even higher expenses than customer service even and need to make that money back too.

    I work at IT department of a decently sized house appliances shop. A lot of the things we sell are at break even, some even at a loss. Additional services is the highest margin market for us, like the "We'll setup Windows for you for 60" or "Additional year of product insurance for 100". Almost all profit.
    Last edited by kukkamies; 2021-05-17 at 11:49 AM.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    And you think they can't control blizzard? You seem confused about what your argument is
    ACtivision-Blizzard does.ACtivision does not. Activision also answers to Activision-Blizzard. Activision and Blzzard are two separate companies with their own CEO's who answer to Activision-Blizzard who has it's own CEO. Activision does not report to Blizzard and vice versa. People need to correctly understand the corporate structure.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    ACtivision-Blizzard does.ACtivision does not. Activision also answers to Activision-Blizzard. Activision and Blzzard are two separate companies with their own CEO's who answer to Activision-Blizzard who has it's own CEO. Activision does not report to Blizzard and vice versa. People need to correctly understand the corporate structure.
    no shit thanks bruh

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    Not interested in a pissing contest either, but wanted to respond to some of your points:

    - I probably could have clarified: I don't believe Blizzard is paying substantially more for any of the services, considering cloud pricing for most services seems to trend downward or flat.
    - I wasn't intending to compare an entire staging setup to a single service, it was more toward the sentiment in the thread of "all these services should be free it's just copy/pasting files" which is pretty silly. Our production costs are exponentially higher, and I can only assume that's the case for everyone.
    - There are also free template characters on PTR, which are basically boosts, that doesn't mean they should be free in production as well, right?
    - I think the restriction you mentioned would have been a much better option. In-line with their "one boost per account", it makes even more sense for a "one clone per account" or something.

    I disagree somewhat on the tech advancement and stagnant wages. Tech salaries in California are... high. 2020 had them at an avg of $126k starting, and DICE has the 2007 Tech starting salary average at ~$75k (and ~$95k for Silicon Valley).

    Either way, I think we agree on the core point about Blizzard chasing profits, which is sort of a no-brainer.
    Fair enough, re-reading my post I think I was being kind of pedantic.

  15. #275
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    a fully geared BIS lvl 60 who will replace all those epics with green gear in 3 levels... are you stupid or something or just dishonest?
    its funny how you say this but many classes will not replace their classic epics till level 70, and some of them wont even be replaced till phase 2.
    like literally neltharions teir, an item from BWL is BIS for warlcoks phase 1.
    Even after doing TBC raids, neltharions teir is still the best.

  16. #276
    the non-cynical part of me always thinks that these things tend to be this way as a means of getting ppl to think twice before blindly impulse buying things. if the price is in a certain range you would hope that more ppl would think 'do I really need this' where as a 10$ boost is something everyone and their mom is going to blindly buy without a second thought.

    too cheap and it becomes trivial

    too expensive and no one buys it

    sweet spot that makes ppl think about the shit they are buying? i'm not simping for blizzard they could be charging as much as they think they can get away with purely for the $$ but I don't like being cynical all the time.

    I'd like to think that they'd rather ppl play the game as opposed to buying boosted characters or at least get ppl to think 'can I level my own character vs spending money on one' and at least having ppl entertain that thought.

    look at it this way, to blizzard it doesn't really matter if you buy a boosted char or level one up, you're gunna be subbed for x amount of months anyway. it seems just purely a convenience thing, similarly any feature that could get ppl writing more support tickets is obviously going to require GMs who make what min wage?. in the end it is a business so the cost of doing something has to be outweighed.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2021-05-18 at 02:19 PM.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by mitre27 View Post
    Sure it's optional, but if you want a new character your other option is to spend like 2 weeks of playtime to get it.
    Ha, yea, two weeks. I spent years gearing my character and you think it'll take 2 weeks to get to that level? It's going to be painful to run around TBC leveling a fresh toon while fighting players in T3 or T2.5 gear. So I either pay2win the $15 fee or run around getting ganked by those who are willing to spend money. They should just give it to everyone or not sell it at all.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    People are already paying a premium just to play the game. They shouldn't be charged premium prices on top of that.
    Finally, someone that gets it. Am I the only one who sees this as pay2win? Nobody mentions that this clone fee is pay2win?

  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judgebringer View Post
    Finally, someone that gets it. Am I the only one who sees this as pay2win? Nobody mentions that this clone fee is pay2win?
    Then you're only revealing yourself as someone that doesn't know what P2W means. Although I suspect you're baiting.

    Come back when players can clone a character with full T3 that the player didn't have to gear himself.
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  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Then you're only revealing yourself as someone that doesn't know what P2W means. Although I suspect you're baiting.

    Come back when players can clone a character with full T3 that the player didn't have to gear himself.
    The problem I have is that I play on PvP servers, which means if I don't take my geared toons and level them then boosted level 58's are going to gank my new TBC leveling toon. So that means I either take my toons off Vanilla and forget Vanilla exists or pay money to clone and level peacefully and still have a geared toon in Vanilla. Sounds like pay2win. Also sounds like a problem Blizzard created and are now offering a solution for a fee.

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