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  1. #121
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Just because you can do other things in game, doesnt mean they are correct things to be doing.

    If i go to the nearest amateur team football field for jogging, am i doing the right thing? Its allowed when there isnt a match going on, same with people using ropes, or kids playing around.

    Its a football field, its not a jogging strip, no matter how much i would love it to have the flooring for jogging, its a football field and that cant change.
    It's a theme park MMO. There are lots of things to do. Lots of ways to play. The game is not one or two things.

    What you seem to be saying is that if you visit a theme park where the two best rides are a roller coaster and a water slide then everyone riding any of the other rides is doing it wrong. That's ridiculous.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    It's a theme park MMO. There are lots of things to do. Lots of ways to play. The game is not one or two things.

    What you seem to be saying is that if you visit a theme park where the two best rides are a roller coaster and a water slide then everyone riding any of the other rides is doing it wrong. That's ridiculous.
    Because you are doing the mistake of assuming that the other things are "rides" when they arent, they are the rest things a theme park has.

    WoW Classic even showcased it the last 2 years, Vanilla and original WoW had nothing to do apart from raiding, cause its the original design.

    The rides are the raid tiers which after a few expansion it became general content based around gear chasing, PvP Ranks/Rating (not PvP itself) and M+ in terms of 2015 and after, not the extra stuff Blizzard adds to take your money on the way from ride to ride, like a hot dog stand or a restaurant.

    Have they added a couple more ways ? Sure, but in general for 2021, there are 3 rides, Raiding, M+, and Arena/RBG ranks, everything else is irrelevant food courts and playgrounds and gift shops.
    Last edited by potis; 2021-05-16 at 11:11 AM.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Sooo... by your statement.. you lose skill/experience by not being interested in the arena, raiding, and M+ anymore?

    There are more levels to players than that. You don't lose 'skill' because you don't play the arena, raiding, or M+ anymore. That is where my view is, there are many players who hold no interest or any interest left for those things, and just play what they enjoy, progress where they can due to various reasons unable to do mythic raiding, rated arenas or M+..
    If you don’t do difficult content then you won’t get good at the game. Difficult content is M+, raids and rated PvP.
    It doesn’t take skill to do world quests. It doesn’t take skill to farm old expansion mounts. And it won’t hone your skill to do that. That’s why it’s called skill and not a talent or a gift. You need to learn it and you need to hone it or you will inevitably lose it.

    People here are basically demanding the highest ilvl gear for logging in and playing flappy bird. Absolutely ridiculous.

  4. #124
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    If you don’t do difficult content then you won’t get good at the game. Difficult content is M+, raids and rated PvP.
    It doesn’t take skill to do world quests. It doesn’t take skill to farm old expansion mounts. And it won’t hone your skill to do that. That’s why it’s called skill and not a talent or a gift. You need to learn it and you need to hone it or you will inevitably lose it.
    Eh, do not believe you lose skill by not suddenly raiding anymore. Nor do I believe you gain skill much by becoming a raider/M+'er in one of two expansions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    People here are basically demanding the highest ilvl gear for logging in and playing flappy bird. Absolutely ridiculous.
    Eh, not what I have seen, at all. That is just you making a panic argument - unless you have an honest non-sarcastic quote somewhere.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Because there's no competition in doing heroic dungeons on time.

    It's like in real life - the highest possible levels requires strict norms.
    Imagine playing football with your friends on the field and then some kind of judge appears and yells "foul!" or they prohibits you from playing with friends because you guys don't have specialistic shoes or your pitch isn't big enough. Would be lame, eh?

    The same in WoW - easier content is made for people who just want to have fun and aren't really considering themselves as professionals, try-hards, whatever.
    Not saying you can't have fun while playing the hardest content, but the balance needs to be much more strict, because there every single percentage, second, DPS, HP, HPS matter.
    Is a game that offers you absurdly powerful items in a situation they are clearly not designed for a fun game to most people? Is an rpg that randomly gives you a end game weapon in the first level good design?

    I find this an odd argument ... its not considered competitive so it should have zero concern for balance at all?

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Eh, do not believe you lose skill by not suddenly raiding anymore. Nor do I believe you gain skill much by becoming a raider/M+'er in one of two expansions.


    Eh, not what I have seen, at all. That is just you making a panic argument - unless you have an honest non-sarcastic quote somewhere.
    What do you think is “skill”?

  7. #127
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    What do you think is “skill”?
    Skill is learned over time. I do not consider someone having raided for one or two expansions for being overly skilled, skilled yes but still more to learn. And no, it does not diminish just because you do not hold yourself away from the usage of your classes in general.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Because there's no competition in doing heroic dungeons on time.

    It's like in real life - the highest possible levels requires strict norms.
    There is a girl who get 6 figures per months pretending to be a dog. Sure.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Skill is learned over time. I do not consider someone having raided for one or two expansions for being overly skilled, skilled yes but still more to learn. And no, it does not diminish just because you do not hold yourself away from the usage of your classes in general.
    You really think you can just learn to play a class once and then you will forever be good at that class even if you stop playing the game and come back years later?

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    You really think you can just learn to play a class once and then you will forever be good at that class even if you stop playing the game and come back years later?
    I guess it depends on what you define as good? I've not played classes for years and gone back and I still had 90% of the rotation down and learning one or two new changes isn't that massive. Biggest change would be the mage. Combustion plays entirely differently then its old incarnation but its not that shockingly different.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    How is it quite a thing to hear when its the truth.

    Just because you can do other things in game, doesnt mean they are correct things to be doing.

    If i go to the nearest amateur team football field for jogging, am i doing the right thing? Its allowed when there isnt a match going on, same with people using ropes, or kids playing around.

    Its a football field, its not a jogging strip, no matter how much i would love it to have the flooring for jogging, its a football field and that cant change.

    WoW is the same, just because people are using it wrongly, doesnt mean they get an opinion about it.

    If you are not raiding in WoW, or at least with the latest added systems, finish your M+ and unsub, you are simply playing the game wrong, or the wrong game for you.
    You are correct, thats why the sub numbers plummet.

    Because, in real world, if you have football field and 10 people want to play football while 100000 want to jogging there you scrap the football field.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    If you don’t do difficult content then you won’t get good at the game. Difficult content is M+, raids and rated PvP.
    It doesn’t take skill to do world quests. It doesn’t take skill to farm old expansion mounts. And it won’t hone your skill to do that. That’s why it’s called skill and not a talent or a gift. You need to learn it and you need to hone it or you will inevitably lose it.

    People here are basically demanding the highest ilvl gear for logging in and playing flappy bird. Absolutely ridiculous.
    It also doesnt take skills to be top tier raider or m+ player. Actually only pvp is show of skills. Other form of activity only required unhealthy amount of time, especially high tier raiding. Unless you think wiping 400-500+ times at a boss is a measure of skill...

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    You are correct, thats why the sub numbers plummet.

    Because, in real world, if you have football field and 10 people want to play football while 100000 want to jogging there you scrap the football field.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It also doesnt take skills to be top tier raider or m+ player. Actually only pvp is show of skills. Other form of activity only required unhealthy amount of time, especially high tier raiding. Unless you think wiping 400-500+ times at a boss is a measure of skill...
    Wiping 400-500 times is not a measure of skill. Beating a boss that players wipe on hundreds of times is a measure of skill. In both PvE and PvP you need skill and knowledge and the skills that you need are different in each part of the game. But saying you don’t need skill is just pure stupidity.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    Wiping 400-500 times is not a measure of skill. Beating a boss that players wipe on hundreds of times is a measure of skill. In both PvE and PvP you need skill and knowledge and the skills that you need are different in each part of the game. But saying you don’t need skill is just pure stupidity.
    How is that a skill you learn and master?

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    You are correct, thats why the sub numbers plummet.

    Because, in real world, if you have football field and 10 people want to play football while 100000 want to jogging there you scrap the football field.
    As always, answers in mmo-champion make no sense and are taken in a way to boost your non-existing opinion.

    In what world do you guys live in? Since when there will be a football field that will be scrapped to the masses, you do understand capitalism and private property right?

    Since when does the municipality or the billionaire owner of the field give a rats ass about the opinion of joggers about their football field?

    You are dressed for jogging and you are carrying a basketball screaming about how tennis rules needs to be changed, in a football field.

    Thats how ridiculous most of you guys are on here and thats why any player that has done anything remotely to be considered an in-game accomplishment, even as simple as AOTC, can not take the rest of you seriously.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    How is that a skill you learn and master?
    Skill is the ability to turn theoretical knowledge into practical use. The difference between knowing how to beat a boss and beating a boss is skill.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    As always, answers in mmo-champion make no sense and are taken in a way to boost your non-existing opinion.

    In what world do you guys live in? Since when there will be a football field that will be scrapped to the masses, you do understand capitalism and private property right?

    Since when does the municipality or the billionaire owner of the field give a rats ass about the opinion of joggers about their football field?

    You are dressed for jogging and you are carrying a basketball screaming about how tennis rules needs to be changed, in a football field.

    Thats how ridiculous most of you guys are on here and thats why any player that has done anything remotely to be considered an in-game accomplishment, even as simple as AOTC, can not take the rest of you seriously.
    If you own private football field you can rent it to 10 people. If you had jogging field you can rent if to 100000 people.

    If this is public property then what is better for community? Football field for 10 people of jogging field for 1000000 people?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    Skill is the ability to turn theoretical knowledge into practical use. The difference between knowing how to beat a boss and beating a boss is skill.
    So they fail with exectution because actuall strategy is fairly simple. This is not a rocket science.

  17. #137
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    1: that’s not what they said even though that’s what you wanted to hear.

    2: player intelligence didn’t need blizzards help to go down, that happened on its own. But they had two choices, lower the skill required to play and keep the game from tanking or keep the skill required above whatever arbitrary IQ score you deem high enough and watch the game die because it can’t retain the playerbase thanks to the base’s unwillingness to get better.
    It already happened back in Cataclysm, not sure why Ion is making the same mistake all over again. Unless, of course, that driving a lot of players away is WAI.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    If you own private football field you can rent it to 10 people. If you had jogging field you can rent if to 100000 people.

    If this is public property then what is better for community? Football field for 10 people of jogging field for 1000000 people?
    I literally just said you are trying to twist things into your opinion when it doesnt work like this.

    The football field isnt negotiable, its an existence, its there, its not going anywhere, how you use it is up to you.

    WoW is the same, the game has the same game design for 16 years, hit max level, do dungeons, do raids, wait for the next patch.

    What else you are doing is up to you, but it is not correct, thats the football field analogy, you are supposed to use the football field for football , if you choose to jog, good for you, you are allowed to, but you are using the football field wrongly.

    Now whether you use the football field for toddlers to practice to make money as a coach, whether its a 5v5 teens arranging for fun, whether its a semi-serious tournament of 30 year olds to work out and have some competition, they are all playing football, in a different scale, the way the field is designed to be used.

    Again, the football field is an entity that doesnt change, get that in your brain, if you dont want to use it, dont use it, go jog on the pavement with a chance to get run over by a bike.

    And because i know you didnt understand and you are gonna twist it to your own delusional thought, it doesnt matter if you are a casual Normal raider, or a HC raider only, or Method, you are playing the game correctly, getting online and screaming you want 226 item level from World Quests and Herbalism, aka jogging.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    It already happened back in Cataclysm, not sure why Ion is making the same mistake all over again. Unless, of course, that driving a lot of players away is WAI.
    He isnt, they arent doing anything, its why there havent been any changes to the difficulty systems in years, because its working, more people are "raiding" (LFR basically :P) than ever before, because its the natural evolution of the character progression.

    Blizzard changed their design because the gaming world changed, they are trying to keep people subbed a month or two more between patch/expansion hopping.

    They arent trying to keep people that will unsub either way for 1 year, because they cant, they are simply trying to make them sub 2 months instead of 1 before they disappear again till the next expansion or patch, and its working.
    Last edited by potis; 2021-05-16 at 02:52 PM.

  19. #139
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Because you are doing the mistake of assuming that the other things are "rides" when they arent, they are the rest things a theme park has.

    WoW Classic even showcased it the last 2 years, Vanilla and original WoW had nothing to do apart from raiding, cause its the original design.

    The rides are the raid tiers which after a few expansion it became general content based around gear chasing, PvP Ranks/Rating (not PvP itself) and M+ in terms of 2015 and after, not the extra stuff Blizzard adds to take your money on the way from ride to ride, like a hot dog stand or a restaurant.

    Have they added a couple more ways ? Sure, but in general for 2021, there are 3 rides, Raiding, M+, and Arena/RBG ranks, everything else is irrelevant food courts and playgrounds and gift shops.
    God I wish the developers simple had the balls to actually design how they wanted with no restrictions. We'd get one expansions where it would be nothing but raids and pvv
    p content and then they'd be fired. And the game could c
    actually be decent.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    God I wish the developers simple had the balls to actually design how they wanted with no restrictions. We'd get one expansions where it would be nothing but raids and pvv
    p content and then they'd be fired. And the game could c
    actually be decent.
    Its different teams creating different things, it wouldnt matter much, it would be good though if we would get something like with Crucible in BFA in every big raid tier.

    The mini-raids between tiers always give you a couple more weeks or 4 of progression, makes the game more fun you know?

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