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  1. #61
    Just imagine lab-grown fish meat without any worry about mercury.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    that started a lot earlier and a lot simplier . with rise of fast food industry since 50s. and i dont mean here only burger joints - but whole fast food industry - there is plenty of documentaries on this topic .
    Uh, before the fast food industry, the human diet was vastly worse. People eating lard sandwiches all the time. People routinely not getting enough vitamins and minerals. People outright starving. The modern diet overall is vastly superior to the old days, even with fast food mixed in.

    Hell, in North Korea, people still suffer from malnutrition and starvation. Up to 2.5 million North Koreans died between 1994-1998 from famine. I bet they would rather have had some McDonalds. Even today, they have to eat rats or dogs for protein.
    Last edited by Kokolums; 2021-05-22 at 11:13 PM.
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Just imagine lab-grown fish meat without any worry about mercury.

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    Uh, before the fast food industry, the human diet was vastly worse. People eating lard sandwiches all the time. People routinely not getting enough vitamins and minerals. People outright starving. The modern diet overall is vastly superior to the old days, even with fast food mixed in.

    Hell, in North Korea, people still suffer from malnutrition and starvation. Up to 2.5 million North Koreans died between 1994-1998 from famine. I bet they would rather have had some McDonalds. Even today, they have to eat rats or dogs for protein.
    pretty much, I mean the main 2 reasons why only rich people in olden days were fat (and there WERE fat people in olden days) is because 1. just generally no abundance of food we have today unless you are rich and 2. prior to automation, people engaged in a lot more manual labor... unless you were rich. that will burn you some calories.

    but people died sooner, there are literally beauty trends through the ages that stem directly from issues caused by malnutrition (but when a king or a queen have those, then its fashionable and everyone wants to look that way). and I have a strong suspicion that its not that we didn't used to have cancers etc but rather people either died too young or weren't diagnosed because we didn't have the diagnostic technology we have today.

  3. #63
    I don't mind either way as long as it's tasty and safe. I won't be going out of my way to purchase it if it's more expensive though.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    but people died sooner, there are literally beauty trends through the ages that stem directly from issues caused by malnutrition (but when a king or a queen have those, then its fashionable and everyone wants to look that way). and I have a strong suspicion that its not that we didn't used to have cancers etc but rather people either died too young or weren't diagnosed because we didn't have the diagnostic technology we have today.
    Less about nutrition and more about shitty stuff that needed regulation. Licking the brims of hats to make them stiffer...and getting poisoned by mercury which were in the hats. Eating spoiled food...a little rot added to the taste. Smoking...opium...the list is amazing.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Less about nutrition and more about shitty stuff that needed regulation. Licking the brims of hats to make them stiffer...and getting poisoned by mercury which were in the hats. Eating spoiled food...a little rot added to the taste. Smoking...opium...the list is amazing.
    I was thinking more of this premature balding or these distended bellies of women who were NOT at the time pregnant (but rather a sign of certain degree of malnutrition - look at how skinny she is otherwise - reminds me of images of starving children that are skin and bone... except for distended bellies), but what you said above too. though I would say spoiled food was eaten precisely becasue there just wasn't so much food to go around as to let it go to waste just because of "a little bit of spoilage"





    edited, yes I am aware that its a very eurocentric slant right there, but we are also talking about changing food trends in USA.. which... are also eurocentric, so its essentially comparing apples to apples.
    Last edited by Witchblade77; 2021-05-23 at 01:04 AM.

  6. #66
    Other stuff...like not bathing at all. If I recall Queen Isabella once boasted she bathed twice in her life; once when she was born, and then when she got married. (Try not to let your imagination roam too far on on that) Needless to say women dying giving birth wasn't uncommon.
    Sorry for the derail...there's just so much history regarding regulations and related health stuff...and a lot of it is gross.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    If they can get lab grown salmon, that tastes the same for the same price or less, Yeah, I'm in for it.
    Lab grown tuna

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    If we solve our energy crisis, then cultured/lab grown meat will be much more efficient and ethical than natural grown/slaughtered meat.

  8. #68

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    *sigh* I wonder...
    Still the dominant species in the planet so not much to wonder. People that want to complain about the science used in our diet do not understand that very little of what we eat is actually natural.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feronar View Post
    Look at what happened in the US starting in the late 1970s and early 1980s, when the government told us that meat, eggs, and butter were bad for us, and that we needed to cut out the fat and cholesterol (Based on very bad science by the way). Did our health improve? No. Obesity rates skyrocketed, along with the problems that come with obesity.

    Also, look at Mad Cow Disease in the 1990s in the UK.
    Yeah, all of that you mentioned isn't a product of nature.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    Still the dominant species in the planet so not much to wonder.
    I decline to believe that means anything.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Feronar View Post
    Hard no for me. I don't trust these modern highly processed industrial foods - and that goes back for at least a century. One of the earliest examples is replacing butter (A natural and perfectly healthy food) with margarine (A highly processed industrial product with a plethora of unpronounceable ingredients). And for that matter, I don't trust Impossible/Beyond/Etc. fake meat (Another highly processed industrial junk food product) either. Tampering so brazenly with nature like that rarely ends well. I'm sticking with real meat, which has been the main part of the human diet since the start of the species prior to agriculture.
    The meat you eat is 100% modified by not only the same science behind the process foods, but also through targeted breeding. The cows, pigs, chickens, goat, turkey, sheep, etc. that people eat are far from the naturally occurring animals you think. As of 2017, 80% of all antibiotics sold in the US went directly into livestock, for example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Just imagine lab-grown fish meat without any worry about mercury.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Uh, before the fast food industry, the human diet was vastly worse. People eating lard sandwiches all the time. People routinely not getting enough vitamins and minerals. People outright starving. The modern diet overall is vastly superior to the old days, even with fast food mixed in.

    Hell, in North Korea, people still suffer from malnutrition and starvation. Up to 2.5 million North Koreans died between 1994-1998 from famine. I bet they would rather have had some McDonalds. Even today, they have to eat rats or dogs for protein.
    People don't eat healthier BECAUSE fast food is available.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  12. #72
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    butter us neutral for us, meat - depends. that lovely charred crust we oh so love on those grass fed steaks, veggies, what have you? cancer causing.

    also... i guess you didn't realize that pretty much all the things that we eat - we have been cultivating for centuries. even, ESPECIALLY things like heirloom fruits and vegetables, as well as our poultry and livestock.

    we HAVE been meddling with nature all along. and fun irony - butter is processed food as well. pretty much all cooked food is processed food. cooking is a method of processing.

    in any case the biggest problem with those beyond meats etc is that they are 1. ridiculously expensive. 2. have way too much sodium in them. but then again so do pickles and cured meats like bacon, so /shrug.
    There's a difference between breeding food with desirable traits versus changing chemical compositions. In most cases we're not directly modifying genomes, just allowing subjects with particular traits to breed.

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    In the back of my mind I what pro or con studies there might be 60 years from now. Every year meat is good, bad, etc

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  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Feronar View Post
    One of the earliest examples is replacing butter (A natural and perfectly healthy food) with margarine (A highly processed industrial product with a plethora of unpronounceable ingredients).
    And...? If you break down any natural food to its chemical compositions you'll get a plethora of unpronounceable ingredients too.

    And no, butter is not "perfectly healthy", nor is most modern butter "natural" with the additives they put in. Neither is "healthy", and not all margarines are equal, but margarine is generally viewed to be the more heart-healthy alternative to butter - https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/d...nd-your-heart/

    That's just the Mayo Clinic, this is a pretty common conclusion. Don't use either if you're interested in health above all, but if you have to then using soft margarine is the least unhealthy option in most situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feronar View Post
    real meat, which has been the main part of the human diet since the start of the species prior to agriculture.
    It's rarely ever been a "main part" of the human diet for a variety of reasons ranging from difficulty hunting animals to an inability to have sufficient animal livestock to regularly butcher as the animals were used for other things (milk, beasts of burden etc.) If anything, we're living in a time with the most access to daily meat in human history between factory farming (which there is nothing "natural" about), freezing meat that can last for lengthy periods of time in transit or storage, and other tools and tech that allow us to get more meat out of animals and store it longer.

    And yes, give me the lab-grown meat. As long as it's safe and tastes close enough to the real thing, and especially if it's less unhealthy, I'll even pay a bit more for it.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    There's a difference between breeding food with desirable traits versus changing chemical compositions. In most cases we're not directly modifying genomes, just allowing subjects with particular traits to breed.

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    In the back of my mind I what pro or con studies there might be 60 years from now. Every year meat is good, bad, etc
    but they are not changing them. they are REPLICATING them in a controlled environment. everything we eat is chemicals. everything we drink. water is a chemical with a pretty scary chemical name if you don't know its water. dihydrogen monoxide. plain. old. water. even something like msg aka monosodium glutamate. in reality is just a natural compound occurring in seaweed among other things and we just figured out how to reproduce it in a lab instead of creating it the old fashioned way of working from seaweed.

    the part of meat that is bad for us is byproduct of cooking and making it taste extra delicious. we finally managed to narrow down what precisely about meat can be unhealthy. and its the charred crust (and well too much saturated fat in certain cuts, but not all meat is the same). what's unhealthy about various cooked meats for an average person (some people have dietary restrictions that are health based - think allergies, etc)? occasionally fillers but mostly obscene amounts of salt, well above out daily needs. and its also one of the primary issues with mock meats. all the extra salt.

    but I digress. a chemical compound is a chemical compound regardless of its origins. so yeah... gimme that lab meat.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    People don't eat healthier BECAUSE fast food is available.
    I would say eating fast food is healthier than starving, which a lot of people did in the west until around the 1970s.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I would say eating fast food is healthier than starving, which a lot of people did in the west until around the 1970s.
    Those are some massive dots to connect if you're going to use the western world in the 1970's, including contextualizing the changes in the overall American diets, the quality of the products served in these locations five decades ago, along with other advances in food science throughout our lives that need to be accounted for.

    That's like attributing success in science to fast food as it's proliferated over the years. Improvements in overall nutrition largely continues on an upward trend - to a point. Then you end up with the long, long list of medical problems that are caused/exacerbated by eating garbage fast food all the time and the numbers look even worse.

    I mean you mentioned people "outright starving", but I'd love to see case studies of how fast food joints fixed that problem.

    This is a really not great take.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I would say eating fast food is healthier than starving, which a lot of people did in the west until around the 1970s.
    That’s not the option though. You are acting like fast food prevented starvation. It didn’t.

    This is not a fast food or starvation scenario, so it’s pointless to phrase it that way.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  18. #78
    The Lightbringer Strawberry's Avatar
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    Yes, it will be safer to eat and *should* be cheaper. Although I don't think it will be cheaper from the beginning.
    But it should be waaaaaay cheaper to make as you don't have to grow a pig or a cow and then feed it for years.

    This is good for everyone. Growing livestock is one of the worst things for our climate.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    Growing livestock is one of the worst things for our climate.
    So are humans...

  20. #80
    Not a big fan of this idea. Thankfully, I don't buy meat in the supermarket and have a butcher that I can trust.
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