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  1. #281
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    The streak bonus meter pauses in the vendor bubbles and -I think- on entry to a new floor. You can AFK just as much as in 9.0.

    Still think this new scoring system is dumb as fuck, however, and totally unnecessary. If I can kill the boss, I should get to the next level, not have to pretty much 100% clear the entire wing, click on every pickup, get a streak and never die on top of that. There were ways to improve on Torghast, that was not one of them.
    Well, I didn't know that bit. Guess it won't be that bad then, even if it still doesn't make any sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  2. #282
    Elemental Lord Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Sounds like speculation rather than taking in the fact: Ask anywhere, in game or not, and most people will have a wide variety of complaints.
    And I'm sure many of their complaints and suggestions will be completely contradictory.

  3. #283
    Tbh I didn't think they could be bothered to do anything like that for the players. Or more like annoyed and smug. That's why when I seen them actually trying to interact with the players (interviews) to show they don't have complete disdain/hatred (previous years of this game/blizzcon in general) for us I gave kudos. Humanizing them.

    A lot of people are less intolerant. If they feel their words fall on deaf ears, they will just take their business elsewhere. This has been going on long before BFA and SLs.. I just feel the outrage was so severe that people threw up their hands and were done with it. When they took one look at SLs. I honestly feel it is several reasons that SLs did not make a good impression, but seeing the systems interlock with playerpower through covenants was the largest outcry from the community. Systems again.

    Either way I digressed, this is long stemmed behavior. Which as far as I am concerned was even worse back in the day. I knew numerous people that left around Cataclysm. To go to FF14 that acknowledged what the customerbase wanted and did a rehaul on the game. They have continued this trend for many years and now will have a record breaking year. They haven't even released the new expansion yet. . . .

    The problem with people thinking they are dealing with arrogant people. Let's be honest they are not all that way, but some people will feel this way. This overtime I feel damaged the environment and made an us vs them mentality. Which is just a horrendous situation. For everyone involved.

    Anyways.. the game has other issues besides the past. You have people there that want to barely spend money (very bad recycling going on there..worst I have ever seen) and try and make a large profit. All the Blizzard IPS have suffered greatly from this. So they are selling their Customers the minimum, cheap product. Not only has Blizzard been pinching their wallets on their customers. From what I gather/understand they do it to a majority of their employees. Maybe it would explain why everyone that is there is sometimes not in the best of moods? A lot of Customers and Employess are not happy ultimately.

    As I have been saying for months.. Blizzard has really ended up being a product of their environment in more ways than one.

    I still encourage them to outreach to the people that play their products. As being rude to a customer and negligence for today's society will just not cut it. You have a terrible experience with any business it can have repercussions. I want them to keep being progressive. Maybe the mentality of the masses of us vs them will simmer down a bit, if Blizzard actually make actions instead of saying they are listening. I hope Blizzard can start treating their employees and customers better. They are more than capable.
    Last edited by Kixxenn; 2021-05-19 at 04:55 AM.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Feedback isn't the secret ingedrient to create a good game, devs with a clear vision and the skills to execute it are.
    The whole discussion about "devs aren't listening" is to some extent overblown, the devs first and foremost need to figure out what game they want to create and then build something.
    People could give the most objective, concise feedback and it still wouldn't do shit if the devs cannot process it properly.

    Imagine giving someone at work the possible advice to their job - it won't do jackshit if the guy doesn't have the necessary skills to do the job in the first place.

    And yes, the implication that the current devs (or at least the team as whole) aren't exactly competent is intended.
    The vision that these devs have utterly sucks also.

    They aren't interested in preserving the things that are already good about WoW.

    They are more interested in changing and re-inventing everything, whether it needs it or not, because obviously they are creative geniuses or Blizzard wouldn't have hired them.

    Bunch of useless fucking idiots.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

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  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Heh.

    My issue with timers in Torghast is that we've already got a whole system of timed content for people who want to have to go all-out, play perfectly with no time to stop and consider a new plan, etc. It's not the only way to challenge people, and Torghast should be able to do it in other ways. As for the concern that people would just sit out their CD timers before 'each' pull - big deal. If there's no major reward for doing the thing, who cares of some people take hours to do a level that other, better geared and/or more skilled players do in 30 minutes?
    Hm? I dont care what others do. If its a challenge to me, its a challenge to me. Not sure why that got anything to do with it. Torghast isn't doing it for me. Because Torghast isnt that type of thing.

    I loved Mage Tower. Not because what others did, but what I did. When I did it at 897 on first day, it was a great achievement for me. When someone did it at 920 and they had bested their challenge, it did it for them. Awesome!

    Dont mistake me for an elitist

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    It feels like every issue with 9.0 was brought up during the beta. They either don't listen or don't care.

    Same thing happened with BfA. WoW is basically a 2-year paid beta at this point until the x.3.5 patch comes out that addresses the expansion's issues
    I beta tested BC, Wrath, and Cata, this has happened in every expansion. I'm convinced the "report bug" and beta forums are just for show.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Blizzard's attempts to force people into social situations have never really worked and now we're mostly left with this dystopic system where complete strangers group up—presuming they meet some artificial set of guidelines set by the group leader—do their thing as quickly as possible, mostly never saying anything to each other, and never seeing those players again.

    It's weird. It's not how humans interact in real life, it's as asocial as it can possibly be while in the company of other breathing humans, and it's something that Blizzard really needs to think about.
    I'm a solo/duoer. The activities Blizzard wants to force me into are not fun, I avoid them for a reason. It would be akin to having to go to the DMV, but I can't go by myself I have to find 4 other people who also need to go. None of us want to go to the DMV, we especially don't want to have to rely on 4 strangers who could make the experience worse. We're not interested in chatting, we just want to get the task over with so we can go back to doing something we actually enjoy.

    I assume that anyone who does enjoy group content is already in a guild of like minded people. I also assume that anyone in group finder like me is probably in the "grit your teeth and bear it camp" of needing to fulfill some unnecessary group content requirement (looking at you, Loremaster).

    I suspect the problem is twofold: 1) It seems most of the higher up devs love instanced group content and perhaps think that if only people tried it they'd like it. How they'd think at this stage of the game there is anyone who still hasn't tried it and come to conclusion it's not for them, I don't know. 2) It's a way to force more players into an activity that doesn't have mass appeal, likely to both justify the resources spent on it and make the playerbase for those activities seem more robust. The problem is, this is where a lot of the group toxicity originates. Things like ilvl and achievement requirements are so the process goes as quickly and flawlessly as possible because people want to get in and get out, they're not there for fun.

    I remember in Legion when Blizzard made all but one class hall campaign impossible to complete without dungeons and tied flying to the Loremaster achievement that required a raid. There was a lot of uproar on the forums and rightfully so, also noting that some have legitimate disabilities that either prevent them from being able to perform in a group or makes the experience absolutely miserable. Unfortunately, none of it seems to make a difference. Blizzard really buckled down hard on requiring dungeons to unlock allied races in BFA and I see in Shadowlands that, again, a dungeon is required for Loremaster, an achievement that is otherwise entirely outdoor, solo content.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    And I'm sure many of their complaints and suggestions will be completely contradictory.
    The game has many problems for many kinds of people.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You know that is wrong in so many levels, right? If a game is well made, it sells way more than a badly made game.

    Also, the reason developers don't want to be "controlled by the players" is because of many reasons, but chiefly among them are two: one, the players cannot agree on what they want (some of the players want to buff warlocks, others want to nerf warlocks, for example); and two, because players rarely know what they really want.
    Mobile-zero-development-effort-loot-box-gambling-skinner-chamber-milking-fests say hello.

  9. #289
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    thats the oposite of what the game needs,keep the players shity opinions as far away from the devs ears as posible,its what got us in to messes in the first place
    Sigh. Stop buying into Blizz PR. Listening to player opinions was not the primary reason WoW is in its current state. WoW's primary issues have to do with the lack of appropriate spending by Blizz...something that the devs and middle management can't control.

  10. #290
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Mobile-zero-development-effort-loot-box-gambling-skinner-chamber-milking-fests say hello.
    You'll have a point if you present me "mobile-lots-of-development-efforts-loot-box-gambling-skinner-chamber-milking-fest" games and show me that they underperform in sales in comparison to those "zero-development effort" mobile games.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You'll have a point if you present me "mobile-lots-of-development-efforts-loot-box-gambling-skinner-chamber-milking-fest" games and show me that they underperform in sales in comparison to those "zero-development effort" mobile games.
    It's just extreme case for you to understand this concept. There are MOBA games or shooters, where whole development effort - is new character model, while they have good profits.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Yes, but "exploration" requires that an area be unfamiliar - this is not possible with data mining, and Blizzard themselves showing each zone extensively during development. Sure, you could, for whatever reason, ignore all videos and screenshots of each zone, but then the game itself holds your hand and casually guides you through each zone. At absolute best, you get to "explore" each zone once, and then spend countless hours trudging through the same zones again and again and again - this is not exploration.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah, what this guy said.
    This is a real concern and i think the answer is to have a more dynamic environment that feels alive and fluid.Give players a real reason to want to go into them. Make world resources more valuable. Make it so that players are OK with going through zones they are familiar with because they will get a real benefit from that. Without those incentives, people will get bored of the areas and wish to just skip them all together.
    Last edited by panda040; 2021-05-20 at 03:02 PM.

  13. #293
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    It's just extreme case for you to understand this concept. There are MOBA games or shooters, where whole development effort - is new character model, while they have good profits.
    I do understand this concept. You, apparently, do not.

    Your claim that "zero effort games" are more profitable than "well made games", simply because those "zero effort games" have lots of microtransactions. The problem is that the existence of microtransactions invalidates the comparison. To make it valid, you'd need well made mobile games with lots of microtransactions. You have to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  14. #294
    Keep in mind that, today, there are 3 active threads (10 or more posts in the thread today) in this general discussion forum:

    1. This is not gaming....it is torture...
    2. why are people acting so entitled to others loot even with personal loot?
    3. Australia-themed Continent

    That's it. That is MMOC today. 2 or 3 threads have people in them. And probably more than 50% of the discussion is white knights and critics attacking each other for being positive or negative about the game. This forum died a few months ago. If they are gonna find "players" for a roundtable, this is actually not a place to look. There might be more MODERATORS than active posters at this point. This place might get shut down due to inactivity this year. If not in 2021, it will definitely vanish in 2022.

    RIP MMOC.

  15. #295
    Devs don't need any roundtables, they need to get the patch out.

    Much of this whine will end as soon as players get some new content to munch on.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I do understand this concept. You, apparently, do not.

    Your claim that "zero effort games" are more profitable than "well made games", simply because those "zero effort games" have lots of microtransactions. The problem is that the existence of microtransactions invalidates the comparison. To make it valid, you'd need well made mobile games with lots of microtransactions. You have to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.
    I compare game with game. I think it should be enough.

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