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  1. #61
    I still feel that the biggest crime for Survival is that it is the spec called Survival, and yet it is so lacking in utility compared to even other hunter specs.

    Why can't Survival be the spec with really high base speed. Give them baseline camouflage. Give them raid wide buffs. Give them something similar to rogue grappling hook.

    Why is Survival called that when it really isn't any better suited to utility than anyone else? Even rogues feel like they are more befitting the theme of a survival hunter what with sneaky attacks, healing potions and utility.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by F Rm View Post
    Survival as a talent category in Vanilla did not provide a design that intended for us to move into melee range.

    No matter which category you went into, be it BM, MM or SV, anything you chose only added to the core toolkit of the class as a whole, that being focused on you staying away from your enemies, firing a ranged weapon.

    The talent-system of Vanilla(and TBC as well, and sort-of WotLK) was designed, not to provide multiple different distinct playstyles, but rather to build on the one core playstyle tied to the class as a whole.

    And for pure dmg dealers/classes, this meant that our role/sub-roles never changed. Eego, the intent wasn't for us to go from being ranged to be heading into melee, not unless forced by others. This due to the range restrictions put on ranged weapons(which in itself, wasn't implemented to promote multiple distinct playstyles).
    maybe you are right. going melee was more of a thing others made you do instead of yourself activly going for it.
    i didnt play classic, but a lot of vanilla hunter back in the days and i remember often using that raptor/mongoose when something went to close rather than always running to range no matter what. Cant say i disliked that back then - cant say i do now. But modern survival surely has a "you have to be in melee frequently!" tone that didnt exist back then, i give you that.

    my point for this wishlist is that i'd rather see it working out than having it go away. i like the idea, not necessarily the current implementation.
    but thats basically just like my mistweaver - beeing in melee is fun on paper, but works out rather poorly in reality.

  3. #63
    1) Permanent aspects back for Survival. Make Aspect of the Eagle affect Basic attacks as well and make it last until canceled. Reintroduce Aspect of the Dragonhawk with AP and Dodge increase. You could have one of these aspects active at a time. This way, you could go RDPS when needed, but would still benefit from melee mode.

    2) DW survival option.

    3) Being able to chose pet specialization again.

  4. #64
    Herald of the Titans Violent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    1.dont rly see the point of it much
    2.this has to be a troll,a hunter complaining about mobility?BUHAHAHHAAHAHHA....pve wise this statement is a joke,and pvp wise,what's monk gonna do with all that ''mobility'' vs a hunter?you have 100% slow uptime on them,and its not like they can run anywhere in an arena
    3.idk bout u but i feel mail overall looks way cooler than leather
    Notice how much of his stuff, is about PVP??
    Yeah, No one takes PvE that seriously Except for, well you know whos... You.
    <~$~("The truth, is limitless in its range. If you drop a 'T' and look at it in reverse, it could hurt.")~$~> L.F.

    <~$~("The most hopelessly stupid man is he who is not aware he is wise.")~$~> I.A.

  5. #65
    Brewmaster
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    Aspect of the wild being an actual CD. Perhaps 30% extra crit chance, 10% extra haste and increased barbed shot resets

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Violent View Post
    Notice how much of his stuff, is about PVP??
    Yeah, No one takes PvE that seriously Except for, well you know whos... You.
    huh?is the troll train still runing?its the oposite,no1 takes pvp seriously,and 99% of people who pvp do it to get better gear for pve lul

  7. #67
    You're the most pampered class in the game, next to druids. Of course you'll get all these things at some point

  8. #68
    Being able to change pet specializations again, would be fantastic.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    You're the most pampered class in the game, next to druids. Of course you'll get all these things at some point
    I really don't feel pampered with what happened to my main spec from Legion onwards

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    The only reason survival has not been meta since it was made melee is because it simply is undertuned.
    I would argue otherwise. Yes, I think it's undertuned, and having truly massive damage can overcome a lack of utility, but even with significant buffs, SV's damage profile doesn't really stand to make it very meta. It doesn't have strong CDs, it doesn't have good short CD AoE burst, etc.

    It also doesn't bring anything in terms of utility that a ranged hunter doesn't, except for a shorter interrupt. In raids, that shorter interrupt hardly matters when there are 19 other people and melee spots are already at a premium. Why bring SV when MM or BM can do everything SV can only from 40(+) yards? I have long argued that for SV, Tar Trap should be either an AoE stun or AoE silence instead of a slow. That alone would help in M+ particularly. SV needs something more than a shorter interrupt to stand out from the ranged hunter specs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Give them something similar to rogue grappling hook.
    They already have Harpoon; it pulls you to a mob (like a reverse Death Grip) instead of to a location like Grappling Hook

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewOU2015 View Post
    Aspect of the wild being an actual CD. Perhaps 30% extra crit chance, 10% extra haste and increased barbed shot resets

    Yeah this. Burst is so important in all areas of the game; SV has very consistent sustained damage which is only useful if the overall damage is head and shoulders above the field.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    I would argue otherwise. Yes, I think it's undertuned, and having truly massive damage can overcome a lack of utility, but even with significant buffs, SV's damage profile doesn't really stand to make it very meta. It doesn't have strong CDs, it doesn't have good short CD AoE burst, etc.

    It also doesn't bring anything in terms of utility that a ranged hunter doesn't, except for a shorter interrupt. In raids, that shorter interrupt hardly matters when there are 19 other people and melee spots are already at a premium. Why bring SV when MM or BM can do everything SV can only from 40(+) yards? I have long argued that for SV, Tar Trap should be either an AoE stun or AoE silence instead of a slow. That alone would help in M+ particularly. SV needs something more than a shorter interrupt to stand out from the ranged hunter specs.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They already have Harpoon; it pulls you to a mob (like a reverse Death Grip) instead of to a location like Grappling Hook

    - - - Updated - - -




    Yeah this. Burst is so important in all areas of the game; SV has very consistent sustained damage which is only useful if the overall damage is head and shoulders above the field.
    This is partly true only.

    SV does not have a damage profile that could work as of now.
    This is all a tuning issue.

    Butchery + Chakram could provide a healthy bursty AoE combo, but they are just so bad that it's not worth it.
    Mongoose Bite could make SV do a burst setup-type of Single Target damage (like a Fire-Mage Combustion) but then again, it's simply undertuned.

    There are many ways to make SV work. All it needs is damage.
    Some people said it earlier that "but SV did have meta damage earlier", no it did not.
    Specs with pure damage are always picked.

    Fire mage was a joke before people figured out it dealt massive burst damage. Because it was enabled by Blizzard, be it azerite traits, essences, corruption or now the covenant abilities + conduits.
    SV has never been enabled since it's rework. All it needs is to have it tuned to be actually good at something, either single target or AoE or even cleave and you have a good spec. It just needs numbers.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by lazypeon100 View Post
    I really don't feel pampered with what happened to my main spec from Legion onwards
    It's what you guys had coming to you after being OP for 5 expansions in a row

  13. #73
    Give me back my permanent Aspect of the Cheetah. I will live with the stuns if I get hit. It doesn't have to affect the rest of the group/raid.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    It's what you guys had coming to you after being OP for 5 expansions in a row
    That doesn't make sense, but okay lol.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    I would argue otherwise. Yes, I think it's undertuned, and having truly massive damage can overcome a lack of utility, but even with significant buffs, SV's damage profile doesn't really stand to make it very meta. It doesn't have strong CDs, it doesn't have good short CD AoE burst, etc.

    It also doesn't bring anything in terms of utility that a ranged hunter doesn't, except for a shorter interrupt. In raids, that shorter interrupt hardly matters when there are 19 other people and melee spots are already at a premium. Why bring SV when MM or BM can do everything SV can only from 40(+) yards? I have long argued that for SV, Tar Trap should be either an AoE stun or AoE silence instead of a slow. That alone would help in M+ particularly. SV needs something more than a shorter interrupt to stand out from the ranged hunter specs.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They already have Harpoon; it pulls you to a mob (like a reverse Death Grip) instead of to a location like Grappling Hook

    - - - Updated - - -




    Yeah this. Burst is so important in all areas of the game; SV has very consistent sustained damage which is only useful if the overall damage is head and shoulders above the field.
    The thing I sometimes think about is what the fist thought someone should think when they see a class. Specifically in this case in PvP.
    When someone sees a Sub Rogue they likely know that this means lots of CC, while seeing an Assassination rogue means lots of debuffs.

    What do players think when they see a Survival hunter? What do Survival huntes do better than other hunters. They don't specifically are better at CC, nor are thye better at following a player closely compared to a MM or BM hunter being able to attack form range.


    Why is it that when you look at a Survival hunter your first thought isnt that the spec is good at survival. Why isnt Survival hunter the spec that just refuses to die in PvP, why isnt it the one that really gets to feel like a ranger that stalks prey and gets to run around in open world content unchallenged.


    I do agree if people think it might be excessive, but I always figured that if there ever was a spec that should specialize in CC and utility it should be Survival.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by BreakerOfWills View Post
    NO ONE WANTS MELEE HUNTERS
    That's a lie.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Aryja View Post
    That's a lie.
    Can confirm, in the last 2 weeks Survival has logged kills to the tune of:
    Normal, 1,822
    Heroic, 4,160
    Mythic, 427.
    While not a huge number it's clearly not 0.
    The only spec with less logs across 3 difficulties is Sub rogue.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    This thread is a nice reminder that Blizzard can do something nice and still get absolutely shit on for it.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Etoo View Post
    Give me back my permanent Aspect of the Cheetah. I will live with the stuns if I get hit. It doesn't have to affect the rest of the group/raid.
    take a look at your talents.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Aryja View Post
    take a look at your talents.
    Was this a snarky reference to Trailblazer? Because Trailblazer is not an adequate replacement for pre-Legion Aspect of the Cheetah. For one you have to talent into it while Cheetah was baseline (+ a glyph that made it remove on hit rather than dazing you). More importantly Trailblazer only activates when you aren't hitting anything while Cheetah stayed up for as long as you weren't being hit. That's a crucial difference.
    Last edited by Bepples; 2021-08-06 at 11:40 PM.

  20. #80
    Playing classic made me realize i miss having a melee stat sticks for all the specs.

    All weapons are hunter weapons.

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