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  1. #81
    When PI can go to other people, to solve the negativity some Priests will ask for it to only go to themselves.
    When PI only goes to the Priest, other players will campaign for PI to go to others again ("we had no problems with it, it was cool for us"), or some Priests wax nostalgic about "strategizing" by giving it to others. (Completely ignoring the problems other Priests faced with it.)
    When PI goes to both, still people beg and trade and play favorites for PI. Toxic play persists. Some Priests ask for it to only go for themselves. Endless cycle.

    Yet, if PI gets removed or replaced, people just ask for PI to come back into the toolbox again.
    Radically changing PI is also a no-go because people will just wax nostalgic about old PI plays and try to get the old version back.

    So freaking, there's no winning with PI. People can't ALL be trusted with PI, and there's no reasonable way to filter out giving PI only to players who would be fair with it, as any customizable build with PI just gets math'd as optimal or not and there would be no choice. There doesn't seem to be ANY damn way to make all camps happy with PI. SOMEONE is going to be unhappy with or without PI.
    Power Infusion could turn into a Bloodlust and there'd still be complaining for the old PI to come back.
    Freaking, it's like a no-win situation. There's no good way to handle PI.

    I think best is try to remove it and hope it stays gone long enough that people forget about it, and then remind people the crap it causes when they ask for it back.
    The only way to keep PI dead and gone is to not forget what problems PI keeps bringing back.
    Straight-up, PI isn't healthy to all groups when it can be given out - it creates toxicity in some group settings. In its best form it'd be a personal CD, but as long as it exists people will keep asking for it to be given to others.
    Last edited by Razion; 2021-06-01 at 07:38 AM.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Thats not really how things work though.

    If you are in a shitter guild that doesnt give a fuck - sure. If you are progressing on something and people arent shitters? GLHF trolling people with that.
    (As a forward, this post comes off as a little aggressive in retrospect. Just an FYI, it's not meant to be hostile to you, but is a bit more of a severe tone towards guilds with the culture as inferred from the OP's post.)

    If you're in a raiding guild and a damage dealer is making demands of you and is overall being an ungrateful shit, you have every right to turn them down or simply use it on someone else. Controversial take, but dps are the least important and most replaceable players in a raid and any raid leader that allows a dps to relentlessly shit on one of their team's healers to the point that they consider quitting the game is a problem. Anyone in that situation should never feel bad for trolling people being toxic.

    Regarding whether they're on progression content, dps complaining about parses more-or-less shows that this guild isn't some cutting edge progression guild. I've never been in a mythic guild whose leadership has been enthused about dps trying to parse on progression, and many of them actively discourage pursuing parses as it leads to members tunneling and taking unnecessary risks. The only purpose of logs on progression content should be to help identify mistakes and show which dps are struggling. If your damage is so tight with whatever enrage mechanic that it is a lone PI that is the make or break for a kill, you have bigger problems than the priest not perfectly providing PI.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  3. #83
    I think you missed the part where its farm content, shit is going to die no matter what even if its not used. Progression yes, what he is talking about no, should be able to PI himself with no issues as it was stated it was being given to people purely for parsing.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    You know how much shit i give about your opinion? 0. Because its irrelevant.
    Ranking is pretty much never about doing things the most efficient way, yet again you show how clueless you really are.
    "Clueless" isn't the word you're looking for.

    I'm well aware what it takes to rank. I do not give a shit about it, because it benefits absolutely nobody.

    Ranking is useless, even to the people at the top. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to give PI to the tank. Ever. It is worse in every conceivable scenario, you've wasted a cooldown to give somebody an epeen boost at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  5. #85
    I think on progression, you should use PI on whoever gets the most use out of it, and that's usually not a healer outside of situations like mythic Sun King where there's a tight HPS check absent of a DPS check.

    But if the raid is on farm and people are demanding it to parse, you have the right to be upset. That's a problem with the guild you're in, not the ability itself.

    I play a warlock and hate pugs because I immediately get demands for healthstones and summons when I join even if I'm also flying to the raid. I just leave if it gets excessive. And I recommend you do the same if people are annoying you with incessant begging for PI.
    Last edited by Danvash; 2021-06-01 at 04:33 PM.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Danvash View Post
    I think on progression, you should use PI on whoever gets the most use out of it, and that's usually not a healer outside of situations like mythic Sun King where there's a tight HPS check absent of a DPS check.

    But if the raid is on farm and people are demanding it to parse, you have the right to be upset. That's a problem with the guild you're in, not the ability itself.

    I play a warlock and hate pugs because I immediately get demands for healthstones and summons when I join even if I'm also flying to the raid. I just leave if it gets excessive. And I recommend you do the same if people are annoying you with incessant begging for PI.
    lolwat healthstone=/= PI. grow up
    This entire comment section is such a shitshow of people.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestyboy View Post
    lolwat healthstone=/= PI. grow up
    This entire comment section is such a shitshow of people.
    Pot, meet kettle.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    Pot, meet kettle.
    you sure showed me.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by DenilCartel View Post
    Before we start I play Disc Priest and this is not just a pug issue but also a guild one.

    Over the last few months with content on farm, I've been demanded to offload my PI to help others parse... fair enough its utility to be utilised by a group. But as I said as things have gone on I'd like to make use of it myself we have more than enough DPS. But to be treated as if I'm nothing but a PI bot for a guild which has come to the point where I just left a long standing guild I'd played with for years.

    I'm not the sort that likes to argue and I know blizzard looks at this subreddit at times and right now I'd love for some sort of relook at Power Infusion.

    I can't deny just how toxic its got, I was removed from a heroic pug group because I wanted to have a go at parsing myself and in the group leaders own words "I can just get another" and removes me from the group this has happened several times in one evening to the point I just logged out.

    I wish that it was myself baseline and twins was the only way to give it. Because people have become so ungrateful that it is theirs by right of optimal use. WELL THAT RIGHT DOESN'T INCLUDE HARASSMENT FOR IT!

    I'm at my wits end people I've played with for years have turned toxic and downright awful, I've threated to leave and even after 2 expansions worth of friendship they don't care and PI has ruined that. After being ignored I left my guild stating fully the toxicity I've been getting from "You didn't do it at the right time" / "You ruined my parse I was handling mechanics your f*ing shit" and these are really really long standing friendships where I meet them in real life sorta up in smoke.

    I've already put in a app to a heroic guild that is just re-farming for the 20th time hoping it would be mine but they said it was conditional for them as they have a few people that would love their hands on it and when I declined I was told I was blacklisted.

    So please rethink this ability.
    WOW, I bet you didn't expect 95% of the replies to not agree with you LOL /close thread.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    "Clueless" isn't the word you're looking for.

    I'm well aware what it takes to rank. I do not give a shit about it, because it benefits absolutely nobody.

    Ranking is useless, even to the people at the top. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to give PI to the tank. Ever. It is worse in every conceivable scenario, you've wasted a cooldown to give somebody an epeen boost at best.
    Why do you think your opinion is equal to everyone else? Just because YOU don't care doesn't mean anything, its irrelevant. An overwhelming majority of mythic raiders do care about it.
    "Wasted a cooldown", why do you even think it matters on months old content that nobody cares about anymore?
    There absolutely is a reason to give PI to the tank, to have him go for top ranks because its not possible without it...wanna know why? Because everyone else is doing it....
    Have you even looked at wcl?
    And haste is a very strong stat for most tanks, from prot paladin to warrior execute dumping. Just because YOU don't like that, doesn't change the fact.
    Last edited by tomten; 2021-06-01 at 11:05 PM.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    Why do you think your opinion is equal to everyone else? Just because YOU don't care doesn't mean anything, its irrelevant. An overwhelming majority of mythic raiders do care about it.
    Which does not, in any way, shape, or form, increase the usefulness of the cooldown. It does not matter what you "care" about. Nobody said it is irrelevant. I said it was useless. Without use. Has no meaning and never will, because all it is, is an epeen contest.

    "Wasted a cooldown", why do you even think it matters on months old content that nobody cares about anymore?
    Because if anything, I want out of that content faster. You are slowing it down with your "ranking" by taking the buff from a better DPS. Fuck off with your selfish shit. You're in group content, act like a fucking group member.

    There absolutely is a reason to give PI to the tank, to have him go for top ranks because its not possible without it...wanna know why? Because everyone else is doing it....
    Have you even looked at wcl?
    Of course I have. And do you want to know what those tank rankings have done for those tanks?

    Nothing. Nothing but an epeen waving contest. So why does it matter that "everyone is doing it?"

    And haste is a very strong stat for most tanks, from prot paladin to warrior execute dumping. Just because YOU don't like that, doesn't change the fact.
    And haste is MUCH stronger on just about any dps class. You are wasting the cooldown by lowering the group's overall damage for nothing but an epeen contest. That is incredibly selfish. I care about the efficiency of the group as a whole, and your rank does nothing for that.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2021-06-02 at 08:16 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    You know how much I give a shit about your top rank? 0. I want the boss dead in the most efficient way possible, your rank isn't helping unless you're the top DPS, and the "venthyr prot paladin" ain't it.
    Actually, venthyr prot paladin is an extremely good PI target.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Which does not, in any way, shape, or form, increase the usefulness of the cooldown. It does not matter what you "care" about. Nobody said it is irrelevant. I said it was useless. Without use. Has no meaning and never will, because all it is, is an epeen contest.
    So by definition it does have meaning.
    Voidshuffle
    <Echoes>
    Laughing Skull-EU

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    So by definition it does have meaning.
    I worry for the sanity of anyone who truly gives any level of "meaning" to any measure of epeen contest.

    In case you weren't aware - No, an epeen contest is equivalent to a dick waving contest. Which also has no meaning or purpose, nor means of judging, hence the saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    I worry for the sanity of anyone who truly gives any level of "meaning" to any measure of epeen contest.

    In case you weren't aware - No, an epeen contest is equivalent to a dick waving contest. Which also has no meaning or purpose, nor means of judging, hence the saying.
    Except of course there's definitely a way to judge/measure ranks, and competing for them is what gives them meaning.
    Voidshuffle
    <Echoes>
    Laughing Skull-EU

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    Except of course there's definitely a way to judge/measure ranks, and competing for them is what gives them meaning.
    Still not hearing how this helps the group's overall efficiency, which is what I care about. Sounds a lot like "it has meaning because we say so."

    That's not what "having meaning" means. That's called a pyramid scheme. Once people stop caring about it - Boom - Suddenly it doesn't matter at all anymore. And when the people who achieve the top stop playing - Well, let's just say the people at the bottom aren't much for competing. There's a reason they weren't at the top to begin with.

    You can give a dick waving contest rules, but that doesn't give it "meaning." You're still just waving dicks around and pretending you're accomplishing something.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2021-06-02 at 09:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Still not hearing how this helps the group's overall efficiency, which is what I care about. Sounds a lot like "it has meaning because we say so."

    That's not what "having meaning" means. That's called a pyramid scheme. Once people stop caring about it - Boom - Suddenly it doesn't matter at all anymore. And when the people who achieve the top stop playing - Well, let's just say the people at the bottom aren't much for competing. There's a reason they weren't at the top to begin with.

    You can give a dick waving contest rules, but that doesn't give it "meaning." You're still just waving dicks around and pretending you're accomplishing something.
    Because it motivates people to improve/maintain their level of play even on farm rather than just phoning it in and "just killing the bosses". Not everybody needs that, but it definitely does help others. It's something to do once progress is over and you're on farm.
    And by your logic any sport/competition is a pyramid scheme. Once people stop caring about the NFL or NBA or Bundesliga or whatever it doesn't matter at all anymore. That doesn't mean they don't have value.
    Voidshuffle
    <Echoes>
    Laughing Skull-EU

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    Because it motivates people to improve/maintain their level of play even on farm rather than just phoning it in and "just killing the bosses". Not everybody needs that, but it definitely does help others. It's something to do once progress is over and you're on farm.
    And if I wanted to, I could motivate myself to pick peacebloom endlessly from now until the end of time, and call it a "competition."

    That doesn't make it any more meaningful. You can motivate yourself however you please, I like seeing the raid as a whole hit bigger numbers, and that doesn't happen with giving lower DPS a buff just so they can rank. It happens when the buff is given to the most beneficial character it can be given to.

    And by your logic any sport/competition is a pyramid scheme. Once people stop caring about the NFL or NBA or Bundesliga or whatever it doesn't matter at all anymore.
    This isn't true. People enjoy seeing others in top physical condition, which is incredibly difficult to get to nevermind maintain. Most people will never be as fit as the average major league athlete is IRL. Maintaining that level of physical conditioning, and then showing it off to the masses, DOES have value - As evidenced by the myriads of money people are willing to throw at it, thus giving it ACTUAL value.

    The same cannot be said of a video game. Everyone CAN be trained with the reflexes to kill bosses. You'll notice nobody gets PAID to rank. (If anything, you're paying Blizzard to play the game in an attempt to rank.)

    All the more reason to get the boss over with faster rather than maintain someone's epeen contest.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2021-06-02 at 09:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  18. #98
    Next:
    Why does a combat res spec is asked to combat res
    Can't a DK use AMZ as personal defense
    Why can't Mage just TW when they will benefit most
    Are people entitled to ask the one Monk in group to hit things
    Why does anyone has to drop their rotation to cc/dispel/rebuff/BoP/
    And the list goes on.

    I enjoy having group support utility and feel powerful and important for it. If you don't, perhaps playing a support role or a spec with support utility isn't for you.

    I'm fairly certain there is more to the story of a guild group of several years to turn toxic ove your handling of PI. We will not know that, but arguing that impactful and unique support abilities should be removed because you dislike using them in the most optimal way is by itself toxic. Of course it will cause irritation in others when you mismanage an ability that directly affects them. Have you played other games with support roles/abilities?

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    Next:
    Why does a combat res spec is asked to combat res
    Can't a DK use AMZ as personal defense
    Why can't Mage just TW when they will benefit most
    Are people entitled to ask the one Monk in group to hit things
    Why does anyone has to drop their rotation to cc/dispel/rebuff/BoP/
    And the list goes on.

    I enjoy having group support utility and feel powerful and important for it. If you don't, perhaps playing a support role or a spec with support utility isn't for you.

    I'm fairly certain there is more to the story of a guild group of several years to turn toxic ove your handling of PI. We will not know that, but arguing that impactful and unique support abilities should be removed because you dislike using them in the most optimal way is by itself toxic. Of course it will cause irritation in others when you mismanage an ability that directly affects them. Have you played other games with support roles/abilities?
    That's a great solution until they decide that actually now your spec should also have a CD you need to give away when it didn't when you chose the spec. Shadow didn't have PI for years until it came back in SL, for example, so people did pick a spec that was allowed to keep its own DPS CDs. Rerolling from a spec you enjoy because Blizzard forces a stupid "utility" spell onto that spec is a shit solution.
    And I will use it in the most optimal way/on the most optimal person, I just think it's awful design that you're even able to give away your own throughput CD.

    Comparing spending 1 GCD on a utility spell to giving away one of your DPS CDs is also extremely disingenuous.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    And if I wanted to, I could motivate myself to pick peacebloom endlessly from now until the end of time, and call it a "competition."

    That doesn't make it any more meaningful. You can motivate yourself however you please, I like seeing the raid as a whole hit bigger numbers, and that doesn't happen with giving lower DPS a buff just so they can rank. It happens when the buff is given to the most beneficial character it can be given to.



    This isn't true. People enjoy seeing others in top physical condition, which is incredibly difficult to get to nevermind maintain. Most people will never be as fit as the average major league athlete is IRL. Maintaining that level of physical conditioning, and then showing it off to the masses, DOES have value - As evidenced by the myriads of money people are willing to throw at it, thus giving it ACTUAL value.

    The same cannot be said of a video game. Everyone CAN be trained with the reflexes to kill bosses. You'll notice nobody gets PAID to rank. (If anything, you're paying Blizzard to play the game in an attempt to rank.)

    All the more reason to get the boss over with faster rather than maintain someone's epeen contest.
    Most people will never be as fit as those athletes, and most people also won't be as good as the people consistently topping warcraftlogs (or getting world first or whatever metric you choose to measure WoW skill with). Not everyone can be trained to play at that level. And people do clearly enjoy seeing high level gameplay, otherwise a lot of streamers would be out of a job (and esports wouldn't be a thing).
    Being paid money or not isn't what decides what has value or not.

    Just because you don't enjoy ranks doesn't mean they're not meaningful or have value.
    Voidshuffle
    <Echoes>
    Laughing Skull-EU

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    The same cannot be said of a video game. Everyone CAN be trained with the reflexes to kill bosses. You'll notice nobody gets PAID to rank. (If anything, you're paying Blizzard to play the game in an attempt to rank.)
    Everything in this quote is wrong.

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