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  1. #101
    Retail has the biggest sinks due to the weekly and daily checklists.

    One of the nicest things about Classic has been that i spent a lot of time playing because i WANTED to, not because i HAD to. I can take breaks and not feel like i missed out on some weekly reward chest.

  2. #102
    Retail you can get AOTC week one if you have a decent guild.

    Classic you can clear the raid if your guild has 10 people with a pulse.

    I’d say classic is a much bigger time sink with less reward.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodyleech View Post
    And what exactly do you compare with this statement?
    Aotc does not need extra sockets - no one below the top 100 MYTHIC runner needs them, as those upgrades are minimal.
    Heroic dungeon gear is a way higher upgrade than some sockets/rng upgraded conduits > makes absolute sense to get it. + you do heroics anyways for badges and other stuff, while stygia is just for those 2 things, nothing else.
    So the amount of upgrade you get from one thing is worth doing but not the other because its a smaller ugprade and right there in between is the magical gap that you decided? :P

    Cmon dude.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by AkundaMrdal View Post
    Grinding atleast four m+ each weak (on multiple chars, if you are in hardcore guild), for the exactly same gear each season, if you want to take mythic raiding seriously is why I say retail. I like m+, been running them till now, but I just can't imagine I would do it next one and half year to two years. Which also prevents me from mythic progress rauding, because my guild requires it.
    I'm 7/10m and I havent touched M+ since I got KSM a month or so ago. Find a better guild if the one you are in is literally making you hate life...

    Too many excuses get made around here. Play the game how you want to and find a guild with like-minded goals I mean c'mon lol

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Because it's not cut & dry, there's hardly any piece in MC / Ony that lasts for the enterity of Classic, they however aren't all replaced by BWL gear.

    If you farmed Savage Gladiator Chain / Hand of Justice, you have it and there's no need to go back and farm it again.
    If you farm Item X on Retail from an M+, you have to farm the the same item with higher Ilvl again next season.

    If you farmed a faction to exalted for an item, you have it and there's no need to go back and do rep farms for that faction again.
    If you farmed Torghast for a legendary item, you have to go back next season / patch to upgrade it.

    Classic phases aren't seasons, because they don't invalidate the previous one.
    People didn't go back to BRD and farmed an Item again because BWL came out.
    People also still farmed MC, despite it not dropping [Season 2] loot.
    TBC itemization is not as shit as Classic. You won’t be running around with dungeon or early raid stuff when the next raid opens up

    Edit: and going back into the same dungeon and getting the item again is better than never going into the dungeon again because dungeon gear is fucking trash

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Hauzhi View Post
    How old are you and did you played hardcore back in the day?

    Maybe its me that played it to much and I have no time for it anymore. Classic vanilla or tbc doesnt seduxe me at all. Not even the idea of wotlk.
    almost 40, and i cleared naxx and cleared sunwell back in the day. Very hardcore back then.

    The appeal of the classic games is far more attractive to me than retail. Retail's seasonal approach is too diablo 3, and not enough mmorpg.

    it may be old, but it's a better RPG and there's no question about it. Every single thing has a place in vanilla-wotlk WoW... retail is literally diablo 3 wearing WoW's skin like an imposter.

    The talent system? More D3 than WoW.
    The seasonal progression system? more D3 than WoW
    different levels of the same gear? You guessed it, D3 inspired.
    M+ is just d3 rift affixes slapped onto dungeons with WoW flavor.


    the only things that have any permanence or real "value" in retail are mounts, pets, and cosmetics... like a damn phone game.

    where's the rpg? Where's the rare and exclusive items that only a brave few ever get? Where's the value in gear, or the actual dangers of the world?

  7. #107
    Vanilla by far - you spend heaps of time just doing nothing waiting for things to turn up (mobs, groups etc)

    Retail has far less wasted time - and you only have to do the stuff you want.

    Due to COVID-19, Germany is running out of sausages and cheese.
    The government considers this to be the Wurst Käse scenario

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    So the amount of upgrade you get from one thing is worth doing but not the other because its a smaller ugprade and right there in between is the magical gap that you decided? :P

    Cmon dude.
    Duh. You do heroics anyways, so you get gear that gives higher upgrades than conduits or sockets would do. For those you'd need to do content you are not doing for other reasons.
    I asked you for what you compare, I just simply listed both and compared those (even though both things technically aren't comparable) complete different gameplay activities.
    Basic knowledge, blahblah, I don't expect more than just basic knowledge.
    Last edited by Bloodyleech; 2021-05-25 at 01:55 PM.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodyleech View Post
    Duh. You do heroics anyways, so you get gear that gives higher upgrades than conduits or sockets would do. For those you'd need to do content you are not doing for other reasons.
    I asked you for what you compare, I just simply listed both and compared those (even though both things technically aren't comparable) complete different gameplay activities.
    Basic knowledge, blahblah, I don't expect more than just basic knowledge.
    If your English was more coherent your logic would be easier to follow.

    I'm genuinely not sure what point your post is trying to make

  10. #110
    Its less about which one is bigger but more where each one is loaded.

    Retail = VERY fast up front leveling and opening gearing process. But end game is extremely time gated and slow mostly by RNG and system checks.

    Classic(s) = Pretty slow leveling and opening gearing process. But end game is pretty much there for the taking if you aren't socially inept.

    (and when I say slow its more a time invested. Both can be over powered if you put in 20+ hours a day to just slam fuck them and you have a little luck)

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Really? Gearing is pretty fast and easy in retail, there's no need to farm anything daily, etc. OP mentioned AOTC progression and there isn't really much needed to put a lot of time in to do that. Gearing in TBC can be fairly easy (unless you're unlucky with that tank sword from Mechanar, I remember I was!), gotta get rep's up for heroics, atunements, professions can matter, etc.

    I'd say it's pretty similar.

    The hell it is. This and among other reasons is why I left the game about 2 weeks ago. Retail is nothing but a farm orgy. the Anima grind is real and especially since Blizzard can't balance covenants even if their lives depended on it. And believe it or not a lot of people switch covenants more then once, and for some more then twice.
    Last edited by Aggressive; 2021-05-25 at 02:35 PM.
    People on this thread only get pissed at you when you don't agree with them...FACT

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyvax View Post
    Retail has the biggest sinks due to the weekly and daily checklists.

    One of the nicest things about Classic has been that i spent a lot of time playing because i WANTED to, not because i HAD to. I can take breaks and not feel like i missed out on some weekly reward chest.
    Did we play the same game?

    Because you had to grind a 150-300g/week for raid consumes during classic, i’d consider that a pretty big part of a weekly ”Checklist” and also not something i wanted to do, But something that was required.

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  13. #113
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    I don't follow why people think TBC had less gear replacement. There was still arena seasons and tiers of raid content along with badge gear replacements. Everything you do in retail you'll be doing in TBC, the difference was there's no world quests. Your rep farming is running dungeons over and over.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    I don't follow why people think TBC had less gear replacement. There was still arena seasons and tiers of raid content along with badge gear replacements. Everything you do in retail you'll be doing in TBC, the difference was there's no world quests. Your rep farming is running dungeons over and over.
    Its actually not as bad as people say. The rep farming.

    Not even aldor&scryer rep is bad compared to todays grinds

  15. #115
    Obviously it's subjective. But if we define time sink as the time you waste without getting any bit of enjoyment out of it - then retail is in a bad spot. All systems of SL are forcing you to login and do chores on a daily and weekly basis. At a certain period you start asking youself if you are actually treating game as a second job. To be more specific:

    - For any high-end pve or pvp content you need to craft a legendary. To craft a legendary you need to farm soulash in Torghast - two runs each week for 4 weeks for one legendary. Plot twist: 90% of the classes have 2-3 bis legendaries for different activities.
    - You wanna do dungeons for gear and valor? While getting needed drop is exciting, good luck finding a group for a +5 key without bloated rio score on your main. I am 2k rio pug guy who barely geared up his melee dps alt-DH to 220 ilvl in 3 weeks. So expect to spend 1/3 of your active time doing Oribos laps while searching for group.
    - You want to pvp? GL being oneshot by boosters and 220+ ilvl people at 0 rating. Gear inflation and oneshot meta alongside dead lfg have been a big issue for the last 2 months yet zero fixes from blizz so far.
    - Furthermore. If you want to have sockets and 226 conduits, you also need to do Maw dailies, which are even worse than Torghast.
    - Apart from that you have a daily chore in form of emissaries, which reward you with gold. Most of my guildies have alrdy stopped doing those 3 months ago.
    - Oh right, on top of that you have anima. A currency to buy overpriced reskins of same 6 mounts and same 4 sets! You can also donate a shitton of it to take part in various engaging activities including reskinned MoP farm, WoD garrison, Legion class hall buildings and BfA ship mission table.

    I have yet to experience TBC to actually compare, but I've been leveling a draenei shaman for the last 5 days and am having a blast.
    Last edited by orney; 2021-05-25 at 02:42 PM.

  16. #116
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Its actually not as bad as people say. The rep farming.

    Not even aldor&scryer rep is bad compared to todays grinds
    I didn't mind them, I completed exalted with every TBC faction back then. Just in comparison you can knock out 1500-3000 rep in a single world quest these days. People need to expect dungeon farming heroics instead for gear and patterns available at exalted. If you're expecting TBC to be less of a time sink it still has everything you do today (minus WQ's) just without the shortcuts the WQ's offer.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    TBC itemization is not as shit as Classic. You won’t be running around with dungeon or early raid stuff when the next raid opens up
    The same can also applied to raids.

    Feel free to replace "Savage Gladiator chain" with "Onslaught Belt" or "Quick Strike Ring" and "BRD" with "MC", doesn't change jackshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    Edit: and going back into the same dungeon and getting the item again is better than never going into the dungeon again because dungeon gear is fucking trash
    Whatever floats your boat, but it's not my cup of tea to do the same dungeon at adjusted difficulty for a literally the same reward at a higher Itemlvl every ~6 months, i personally prefer it when i can put some activities behind me instead of doing virtually the same grinds 4x over the course of an expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Not even aldor&scryer rep is bad compared to todays grinds
    On top of that:
    1. You can buy all items off the AH (meaning any sort of Goldfarm can be substituted for it)
    2. The only lasting rewards are the superior shoulder enchants, which are only a slight upgrade over the cheap ones in the grand scheme of things

    Heck, if one wanted to bypass farming Scryer / Aldor farm, one could've also banked some Sapphiron Shoulder enchants, which are equivalent / slightly superior to the Aldor / Scryer ones.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-05-25 at 02:47 PM.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    I didn't mind them, I completed exalted with every TBC faction back then. Just in comparison you can knock out 1500-3000 rep in a single world quest these days. People need to expect dungeon farming heroics instead for gear and patterns available at exalted. If you're expecting TBC to be less of a time sink it still has everything you do today (minus WQ's) just without the shortcuts the WQ's offer.
    I'm expecting my server to be hard to farm aldor/scryer rep on in the start as most people will probably be going to the major farm locations. I play on one of the bigger pvp servers and as alliance.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by orney View Post
    Obviously it's subjective. But if we define time sink as the time you waste without getting any bit of enjoyment out of it - then retail is in a bad spot. All systems of SL are forcing you to login and do chores on a daily and weekly basis. At a certain period you start asking youself if you are actually treating game as a second job. To be more specific:

    - For any high-end pve or pvp content you need to craft a legendary. To craft a legendary you need to farm soulash in Torghast - two runs each week for 4 weeks for one legendary. Plot twist: 90% of the classes have 2-3 bis legendaries for different activities.
    - You wanna do dungeons for gear and valor? While getting needed drop is exciting, good luck finding a group for a +5 key without bloated rio score on your main. I am 2k rio pug guy who barely geared up his melee dps alt-DH to 220 ilvl in 3 weeks. So expect to spend 1/3 of your active time doing Oribos laps while searching for group.
    - You want to pvp? GL being oneshot by boosters and 220+ ilvl people at 0 rating. Gear inflation and oneshot meta alongside dead lfg have been a big issue for the last 2 months yet zero fixes from blizz so far.
    - Furthermore. If you want to have sockets and 226 conduits, you also need to do Maw dailies, which are even worse than Torghast.
    - Apart from that you have a daily chore in form of emissaries, which reward you with gold. Most of my guildies have alrdy stopped doing those 3 months ago.
    - Oh right, on top of that you have anima. A currency to buy overpriced reskins of same 6 mounts and same 4 sets! You can also donate a shitton of it to take part in various engaging activities including reskinned MoP farm, WoD garrison, Legion class hall buildings and BfA ship mission table.

    I have yet to experience TBC to actually compare, but I've been leveling a draenei shaman for the last 5 days and am having a blast.
    Instead of "grinding" torghast until you have your best 225 legendaries and doing some emissary quests that take less than an hour to do in total once every 3 days (and at least in my guild you can pretty much always find guildies to boost alts through high M+ and the runs take like 30min tops) you will be grinding gold to be even able to afford your enchants and consumables for raids. Sure, if you mained a mage in classic or had an alt mage to sell boosts like crazy it will be easy to gear up at the beginning and even purchase your epic flying skill/mount, but if you played a hybrid/healer spec and didn't have time for alts you are in for some serious grinding for highly contested resources be it herbs/ore/skins or specific mobs.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    usually the opposite. tbc had its fair share of quick gear, and catch up mechanics.

    the difference is it doesn't have the seasonal nature of retail so the progression ladder remains relevant and permanent. You don't reset every patch and need to repeat the entire process essentially.

    one and done content will always be easier by nature than never ending seasonal grinds
    I don't understand this at all, unless you consider badge gear "being done." Every raid has better gear than the last and you will still throw everything else out when the next BC raid tier hits.

    WoW has literally been like this from the beginning, unless you are content being far behind. And if you are, it doesn't matter anyway

    The only "permanent progress" in any version of this game is achievements/unlocks, which don't even exist in vanilla/tbc

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