Bigger time sink, BC or Retail?

[Fenrys]

Easily TBC. People saying you have to regrind stuff in retail are deluding themselves. To get AOTC you don't need grind anything once. You just turn up the first week. Also, with each phase better gear is released with bosses which require better gear to down. How is this different from retail? Your gear doesn't stay "relevant" the whole expansion. A few over-tuned items here or there which you keep using is no different to retail, which frequently has items which are used in later tiers because of how powerful they are.

For those who want to spend a lot of time in either, both have ways to do that. In TBC those grinds are mandatory, in retail they are optional.

[Azerate]

Forever is an interesting word :-)

Anyhow I would bet you anything that eventually there is going to be a classic > retail character transfer service to make those Quiraji battle tanks and Benedictions "forever". It won't be cheap & A/Blizzard will deny such plans up until we are nearing the last patch of classic Wrath, but it will happen eventually!

Forever is a simplification of sorts, but yes, the cosmetics will remain in the game as long as the game is on-line. Gear gets oudated every patch and becomes completely obsolete. Same was true in Vanilla/BC/Wrath etc. Maybe to a lesser degree, but still. Gear is gear. New gear gets added and it replaces the old one. The only usefulness of old gear is when it gets added as transmog appearance (which by the way does not exist in Classic).

I doubt any transfers between classic and main game will ever happen, and I also don't see what it has to do with what I posted as well

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

For those who want to spend a lot of time in either, both have ways to do that. In TBC those grinds are mandatory, in retail they are optional.

We are comparing apples and oranges here. Currently retail isn't in launch mode, at launch you needed to farm gear, legendaries, soul ashes etc. just like you need to farm certain things in TBC launch. But after TBC is in the same phase like SL is now there is no longer that grind required, just pure raid logging.

TBC is going to be same like SL:

In SL HC week you ran M+ keys nonstop until you had 210 gear (HC week had 210 ilvl cap)
In TBC you run 5 mans nonstop until you have the gear you need

[Aphrel]

retail for two reasons:

reason 1: retail progress is time gated. You cant grind your stygia for 16hours a day for 2 days and be done etc. Instead you need to do it for 30min a day, every day for 2 months. This goes for almost all grinds in retail outside of the raids.

reason 2: Retail progress effectively resets to 0 every patch. In tbc, there will be considerably less stuff to do on a daily/weekly basis after the initial rush.

[Fenrys]

We are comparing apples and oranges here. Currently retail isn't in launch mode, at launch you needed to farm gear, legendaries, soul ashes etc. just like you need to farm certain things in TBC launch. But after TBC is in the same phase like SL is now there is no longer that grind required, just pure raid logging.

OK - but to get to the raid log point, you have to grind way more in TBC. Farming gear, legendaries and soul ash takes a trivial amount of time a the beginning of the patch.

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

OK - but to get to the raid log point, you have to grind way more in TBC. Farming gear, legendaries and soul ash takes a trivial amount of time a the beginning of the patch.

TBC is going to be same like SL:

In SL HC week you ran M+ keys nonstop until you had 210 gear (HC week had 210 ilvl cap)
In TBC you run 5 mans nonstop until you have the gear you need

I can tell you farming M+ for gear was not trivial since only 2 items dropped if you timed it. Out of 10 item pool you had 10% chance to get the item you wanted in addition to 2/5 chance to actually get loot so it was like 4% chance per run to get the item you wanted.

[Bloodyleech]

Requirements for tbc
Rep grind
Mat farming for reps
Heroic grind
Attuning

Retail
3 weekly quests
Lfr unless you have full covenant gear
1 m+ dungeon a week
2 torghast runs a week
Channeling to anima conductor daily for 30 days because leggo rng acquisition is and always will be garbage

Honestly tbc is more of a time sink because retail is just a 3 hour weekly chore list

Uhm.. Could you explain that? Every legendary is a fixed drop(chance) at specific spots.
Not even without cov gear you need LFR gear, as you even list m+.
Would really like to know what you specifically need the conductor for...?

[ClassicPeon]

This is actually pretty subjective, but let's give it a shot.
AOTC, when? I'm a casual mythic raider that got AOTC in mid January, many of my friends in AOTC only guilds didn't get theirs til first week of May, a 4 month gap.
My guild and theirs both raid 6hrs/week.

At what pace do you intend to play BC? BC has the attunements, once done you can raid log peacefully.
In SL, you had the initial grind of M0s, renown, cov story etc. I personally started raid logging exclusively in February, once all the previous steps were won and done.

The other factor is, in BC you'll be encouraged to run Kara, Grull's and Mags. Once the next raids, SSC and Eye come out you won't suddenly stop Kara, Grull's and Mags.
If all you want to do is raid the latest and greatest raid, BC probably takes less to keep up, just 1 raid night would do it.

Long story short, Retail only has the current raid on whatever difficulty you play. BC will have multiple raids with crazy items, so you may find yourself raiding a lot more because while you don't need DST from Grull's, someone else does :3

I doubt many raiding guilds will keep running kara after ssc and so on comes out. They should be pretty geared from kara at that point. Unless its to gear up alts or just for fun but thats not really relevant to this discussion

[Bloodyleech]

retail for two reasons:

reason 1: retail progress is time gated. You cant grind your stygia for 16hours a day for 2 days and be done etc. Instead you need to do it for 30min a day, every day for 2 months. This goes for almost all grinds in retail outside of the raids.

reason 2: Retail progress effectively resets to 0 every patch. In tbc, there will be considerably less stuff to do on a daily/weekly basis after the initial rush.

#1 No. Why do you farm stygia? For a small 1-2% boost? Okay, what rank are you playing at? (Post is about Aotc anyways, which does need stygia grinding even less)
#2 In both versions you have to go into the next raid to get better stuff. But to be a good player you have to do the older raids in TBC too, not just the newest.

[ClassicPeon]

Requirements for tbc
Rep grind
Mat farming for reps
Heroic grind
Attuning

Retail
3 weekly quests
Lfr unless you have full covenant gear
1 m+ dungeon a week
2 torghast runs a week
Channeling to anima conductor daily for 30 days because leggo rng acquisition is and always will be garbage

Honestly tbc is more of a time sink because retail is just a 3 hour weekly chore list

You are missing some stuff from retail. Like the maw farming for covenant upgrades and innitial rep.

Saying all you need in retail is 1m+ a week is like saying all you needed to do in wrath was 1 hc a week. You are skipping the entire gearing we did at the start with hc's, mythics, and general gearing in m+/pvp.

[Fenrys]

TBC is going to be same like SL:

In SL HC week you ran M+ keys nonstop until you had 210 gear (HC week had 210 ilvl cap)
In TBC you run 5 mans nonstop until you have the gear you need

This isn't the grind though. Running content to get gear is comparable and not grindier in TBC. Farming rep for attunements is the grind, long ass attunement quest lines is the grind.

[ClassicPeon]

#1 No. Why do you farm stygia? For a small 1-2% boost? Okay, what rank are you playing at? (Post is about Aotc anyways, which does need stygia grinding even less)
#2 In both versions you have to go into the next raid to get better stuff. But to be a good player you have to do the older raids in TBC too, not just the newest.

With this logic you also dont need to farm hc's for gear in tbc. You can clear kara in green level 70 gear.

[Bloodyleech]

With this logic you also dont need to farm hc's for gear in tbc. You can clear kara in green level 70 gear.

And what exactly do you compare with this statement?
Aotc does not need extra sockets - no one below the top 100 MYTHIC runner needs them, as those upgrades are minimal.
Heroic dungeon gear is a way higher upgrade than some sockets/rng upgraded conduits > makes absolute sense to get it. + you do heroics anyways for badges and other stuff, while stygia is just for those 2 things, nothing else.

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

This isn't the grind though. Running content to get gear is comparable and not grindier in TBC. Farming rep for attunements is the grind, long ass attunement quest lines is the grind.

Kara attunement isn't long ass grind. It only requires some quests and 4 or 5 normal dungeons which you probably run for gear anyway. Getting heroic keys will require some time tho but luckily I'm T3 geared so I can skip that and go into Karazhan right away.

[Fenrys]

Kara attunement isn't long ass grind. It only requires some quests and 4 or 5 normal dungeons which you probably run for gear anyway. Getting heroic keys will require some time tho but luckily I'm T3 geared so I can skip that and go into Karazhan right away.

Good for you. Doesn't negate my point at all though.

[Greyvax]

Retail has the biggest sinks due to the weekly and daily checklists.

One of the nicest things about Classic has been that i spent a lot of time playing because i WANTED to, not because i HAD to. I can take breaks and not feel like i missed out on some weekly reward chest.

[Tzunami]

Retail you can get AOTC week one if you have a decent guild.

Classic you can clear the raid if your guild has 10 people with a pulse.

I’d say classic is a much bigger time sink with less reward.

[ClassicPeon]

And what exactly do you compare with this statement?
Aotc does not need extra sockets - no one below the top 100 MYTHIC runner needs them, as those upgrades are minimal.
Heroic dungeon gear is a way higher upgrade than some sockets/rng upgraded conduits > makes absolute sense to get it. + you do heroics anyways for badges and other stuff, while stygia is just for those 2 things, nothing else.

So the amount of upgrade you get from one thing is worth doing but not the other because its a smaller ugprade and right there in between is the magical gap that you decided? :P

Cmon dude.

[Wuusah]

Because it's not cut & dry, there's hardly any piece in MC / Ony that lasts for the enterity of Classic, they however aren't all replaced by BWL gear.

If you farmed Savage Gladiator Chain / Hand of Justice, you have it and there's no need to go back and farm it again.
If you farm Item X on Retail from an M+, you have to farm the the same item with higher Ilvl again next season.

If you farmed a faction to exalted for an item, you have it and there's no need to go back and do rep farms for that faction again.
If you farmed Torghast for a legendary item, you have to go back next season / patch to upgrade it.

Classic phases aren't seasons, because they don't invalidate the previous one.
People didn't go back to BRD and farmed an Item again because BWL came out.
People also still farmed MC, despite it not dropping [Season 2] loot.

TBC itemization is not as shit as Classic. You won’t be running around with dungeon or early raid stuff when the next raid opens up

Edit: and going back into the same dungeon and getting the item again is better than never going into the dungeon again because dungeon gear is fucking trash

[justandulas]

How old are you and did you played hardcore back in the day?

Maybe its me that played it to much and I have no time for it anymore. Classic vanilla or tbc doesnt seduxe me at all. Not even the idea of wotlk.

almost 40, and i cleared naxx and cleared sunwell back in the day. Very hardcore back then.

The appeal of the classic games is far more attractive to me than retail. Retail's seasonal approach is too diablo 3, and not enough mmorpg.

it may be old, but it's a better RPG and there's no question about it. Every single thing has a place in vanilla-wotlk WoW... retail is literally diablo 3 wearing WoW's skin like an imposter.

The talent system? More D3 than WoW.
The seasonal progression system? more D3 than WoW
different levels of the same gear? You guessed it, D3 inspired.
M+ is just d3 rift affixes slapped onto dungeons with WoW flavor.


the only things that have any permanence or real "value" in retail are mounts, pets, and cosmetics... like a damn phone game.

where's the rpg? Where's the rare and exclusive items that only a brave few ever get? Where's the value in gear, or the actual dangers of the world?