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  1. #1

    Old Article: Poverty, not the 'Teen Brain', Responsible for most Youth Crime

    https://psmag.com/economics/its-pove...st-youth-crime
    Psychological and sociological studies have examined the impact of all types of stimuli on teenagers’ criminal behavior—like peer pressure, parental attitudes, dropping out of school, drinking, drugs, and, yes, violent video games. And in the criminal justice world, the “teenage brain” itself has been cited as a reason to end solitary confinement for adolescents and teenagers—not to mention the abolition of both life sentences and the death penalty for juveniles.

    But as important as it is to keep the teenage brain in mind when we as a society decide how poor decisions should be punished, maybe it’s not the most important factor in how those decisions get made in the first place. The results of a new study by Mike Males from the Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice in San Francisco support the argument that teenage poverty, not teenage biology, is most to blame for teenage crime.

    Males looked specifically at the more than 50,000 homicides in California from 1991 to 2002. As one would expect, teenagers perpetrated more of the homicides than other age groups—but only when he did not control for poverty. When he did control for poverty, teenagers committed more crimes than other age groups only in high-poverty areas. In the areas where teenagers had as much money as other middle-aged people, they tended to commit fewer violent crimes. And in the areas where middle-aged people had as little money as other teenagers, those middle-aged people tended to commit just as many violent crimes.


    In other words, financially secure teens act as responsibly as stereotypical middle-aged people; and poor middle-aged people act as recklessly as stereotypical teens. The financial situations of the would-be perpetrators had a lot bigger impact than what age they were at the time. And that impact was huge: The homicide rate among the poorest teenagers Males looked at was 18 times higher than it was among the wealthiest. He writes in his article:

    In every case we have investigated of supposedly signature ‘”adolescent risks”—fatal traffic crashes, firearms mortality, felony crime, violent crime, and, in the present study, homicide and firearms homicide—we find they are severely mitigated or disappear altogether once the economic playing field is leveled.


    So how to level that playing field? Addressing youth unemployment could provide some hope. Teens’ unemployment, and under-employment, have always been a given: Young people typically don’t yet have the experience or education to get well-paying jobs. And in tough economic times like these, teenagers are also often competing for entry-level jobs with more experienced people who would otherwise be higher up the professional ladder.

    The latest job numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics showed an unemployment rate for 16- to 19-year-olds of 17.1 percent. (By comparison, the overall unemployment rate for American workers, as of February, was 5.5 percent.) Lower income areas have always been associated with high crime, but recent research shows that areas with notable income inequality are, too—especially for people between the ages of 15 and 24.

    “Within every race and community, adolescents suffer poverty rates two to three times higher than older adults do,” Males tells SAGE Open. “It is astonishing that researchers have compiled decades of theories and claims about teenagers' supposed risk-taking, impulsiveness, brain deficiencies, and crime-proneness without examining whether these are due to young people's low socioeconomic status, not young age.”

    However, if his analysis is correct, it presents quite a formidable challenge to those policymakers and advocates who would try to affect change in the lives of disadvantaged individuals and lower-income, crime-ridden communities. As Males writes in his article, “Under this revised theory, young people do not ‘age out’ of crime, they ‘wealth out.’”
    Admittedly an older article, but I thought it was worth sharing here to get a discussion going by this. I've seen the issue of "brain development" pop up a lot when discussing adolescent and young adult crime, but rarely have I ever actually seen a material analysis of younger people, which to some degree seems a bit like a "no shit" moment, that poverty and not anything intrinsic to younger people cognitively, is the leading contributor to criminal activity among the youth.

    @Theodarzna @Mihalik

  2. #2
    Uhm. Yes.

    Not exactly news to anyone who exists in the real world rather than in "Boostraps GOPland".

    The reason for nearly all crime is socioeconomic, especially violent crime. Eliminate poverty, eliminate most crime.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Uhm. Yes.

    Not exactly news to anyone who exists in the real world rather than in "Boostraps GOPland".

    The reason for nearly all crime is socioeconomic, especially violent crime. Eliminate poverty, eliminate most crime.
    Well, "Bootstrap GOPland" and "liberal soccer mom-world". I've seen a lot of times on Twitter where "liberal" types will essentially pathologize any stupid or irresponsible choice done by a young person as being the result of an undeveloped brain, even for something like a 20/21 year old disobeying covid guidelines "not being their fault" and the result of their "impulsive" brains instead of just people being assholes through their own agency.

    Personally makes me wonder how much of anything negatively associated with teens and young adults is the result of cognition versus what's the result of societal or economic influences, especially the expectation of recklessness and selfishness by younger individuals, which may ironically, be a cause for at least some of the recklessness or "selfishness" of younger people (psychological "Self-fulfilling prophecies" of low expectations/criminality). Because if an "undeveloped" brain can be used as an excuse to ignore impoverishment among the youth, I wonder what else can and is used as an excuse to avoid closely examining the material, social or mental ills among the youth.
    Last edited by ScipioMoroder; 2021-05-25 at 05:57 PM.

  4. #4
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    The reason for nearly all crime is socioeconomic, especially violent crime. Eliminate poverty, eliminate most crime.
    such bullshit...

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    such bullshit...
    It is not full bullshit.

    Criminal organization continue to exist because they have a endless supply of youth so disillusioned by poverty and the worlds broken system of wealth that the only way out is to commit crime.

    You would turn to crime yourself if your environment ,since birth, shows you the only way out of crippling poverty is crime.

  6. #6
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    It is not full bullshit.

    Criminal organization continue to exist because they have a endless supply of youth so disillusioned by poverty and the worlds broken system of wealth that the only way out is to commit crime.

    You would turn to crime yourself if your environment ,since birth, shows you the only way out of crippling poverty is crime.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niklas_Lindgren

    Kurt Niklas Lindgren (born June 26, 1972, in Sörmjöle, Umeå Municipality), known in the media prior to his arrest as Hagamannen ("The Haga Man"), is a convicted Swedish serial rapist. Lindgren was convicted of nine counts of sexual assault in 2006, two of which were labeled attempted murder, in relation to attacks in the city of Umeå from 1998 to 2005. The attacks were all made outdoors, involved physical violence and in some cases attempts to kill his victims. The nickname "Hagamannen" refers to the area in Umeå named Haga where Lindgren made his first assault.
    one of the worst serial rapists in sweden...

    family father, owns a house... you going to tell me that he was raping because he's poor?

    then another man...

    https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a...-mot-tolv-barn

    For several years, the 67-year-old man is suspected of having sexually abused 12 children. Many of the victims were very young at the time of the acts, some as young as one year old.

    Everything began to be discovered when a boy reported that a child in the residential area had been abused.

    - The man was arrested and during the house search of the man, a very large number of storage media were seized. During the review, it has been established that abuse of the children has been filmed. The man has also possessed a very large amount of downloaded child pornographic material, in total there are over 2.5 million illegal files, says chamber prosecutor Åsa Lidefelt Skog.
    i guess he's poor and needs economic support...
    Last edited by Sugarcube; 2021-05-26 at 11:13 PM.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niklas_Lindgren



    one of the worst serial rapists in sweden...

    family father, owns a house... you going to tell me that he was raping because he's poor?

    https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a...-mot-tolv-barn



    i guess he's poor and needs economic support...

    Serious? You are comparing a serial killer to my statement of Organized crime?

  8. #8
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    Serious? You are comparing a serial killer to my statement of Organized crime?
    wtf are you talking about? i made no statement about organized crime...

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    wtf are you talking about? i made no statement about organized crime...
    Bahahahaha… pay attention to what you quote.

  10. #10
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    Bahahahaha… pay attention to what you quote.
    likewise to you... mihalik said nothing about organized crime either...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    The reason for nearly all crime is socioeconomic, especially violent crime. Eliminate poverty, eliminate most crime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    such bullshit...

    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    It is not full bullshit.
    i responded to you saying it's not bullshit...
    Last edited by Sugarcube; 2021-05-26 at 11:31 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    wtf are you talking about? i made no statement about organized crime...

    He's saying that you replied to his point about organized crime with your comparison post about a serial killer.


    Pay attention for once.

  12. #12
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    He's saying that you replied to his point about organized crime with your comparison post about a serial killer.


    Pay attention for once.
    what fucking serial killer?

    pay attention...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niklas_Lindgren



    one of the worst serial rapists in sweden...

    family father, owns a house... you going to tell me that he was raping because he's poor?

    then another man...

    https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a...-mot-tolv-barn



    i guess he's poor and needs economic support...
    Are you capable of grasping the difference between anecdotes and statistics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Uhm. Yes.

    Not exactly news to anyone who exists in the real world rather than in "Boostraps GOPland".

    The reason for nearly all crime is socioeconomic, especially violent crime. Eliminate poverty, eliminate most crime.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    what fucking serial killer?

    pay attention...
    I said the reason for nearly all crime. Not all crime.

    Sociopaths, psychopaths exist. Even in that case, most diagnosed sociopaths and psychopaths never actually get on the wrong side of the law, as they can be socialized in the right conditions to be functioning members of society, or often if diagnosed early their condition can be managed via therapy, of course all that is much easier in a society that invests in things like education, social safety nets and healthcare. Outliers will always exist, but that doesn't change the fact that most crime is motivated by socioeconomic factors and conditions.

    Magic fucking words those nearly all are, innit? Reading comprehension must not be your thing.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2021-05-27 at 12:37 AM.

  15. #15
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I said the reason for nearly all crime. Not all crime.

    Sociopaths, psychopaths exist. Even in that case, most diagnosed sociopaths and psychopaths never actually get on the wrong side of the law, as they can be socialized in the right conditions to be functioning members of society, or often if diagnosed early their condition can be managed via therapy, of course all that is much easier in a society that invests in things like education, social safety nets and healthcare. Outliers will always exist, but that doesn't change the fact that most crime is motivated by socioeconomic factors and conditions.

    Magic fucking words those nearly all are, innit? Reading comprehension must not be your thing.
    it's not even close to nearly all crime...

  16. #16
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    it's not even close to nearly all crime...
    Then show your work because right now you look irrational.

    "Nearly all crime is due to socioeconiomic reasons"

    you: "nuh uh what about the instances of the exceedingly rare serial killers!"

    Right the "rare" instance of serial killers is what you're using to say tha tnot nearly all crime is related to economic factors... do you see the folly in that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    it's not even close to nearly all crime...
    Citation please. Otherwise you can take your opinion and shove it where the sun don't shine.

  18. #18
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Citation please. Otherwise you can take your opinion and shove it where the sun don't shine.
    you're the one claiming it's nearly all crime... i simply don't believe it...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Then show your work because right now you look irrational.

    "Nearly all crime is due to socioeconiomic reasons"

    you: "nuh uh what about the instances of the exceedingly rare serial killers!"

    Right the "rare" instance of serial killers is what you're using to say tha tnot nearly all crime is related to economic factors... do you see the folly in that?
    where do you even get serial killers from? holy shit...

  19. #19
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    you're the one claiming it's nearly all crime... i simply don't believe it...

    - - - Updated - - -



    where do you even get serial killers from? holy shit...
    Ooh sorry.. serial rapist...does that help your argument? Hint... no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post

    Right the "rare" instance of serial killers is what you're using to say tha tnot nearly all crime is related to economic factors... do you see the folly in that?
    Of course he doesn't. Cuz his opinion>silly data sets put together by silly researchers.

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