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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    3.0 and 3.1 were perfect, it went downhill after the much too early release of 3.2. And that's actually the fault of cataclysm too, since they already were so extremely behind the schedule so that they couldn't create more content for wrath because of cata.
    Even as a Wrath fanboy, this is an absurd statement. 3.0 was *woefully* undertuned, to the point that it was a joke even for the most casual groups. Private servers have literally buffed 3.0 raid and dungeon content by 200+% and it's still a cakewalk. It was so easy that it's almost insulting to the intelligence of the playerbase, especially coming out of TBC which was tuned quite tightly for the most part, even if it was still easy content.

    3.1 was a lot better, but still undertuned.

    If WotLK Classic launches with 3.3.5 classes and tuning and doesn't buff T7 content by at least 75%, it will be a fucking stomp, maybe even more than Vanilla Classic was.

    Source: Am currently playing heavily buffed T7 on a very popular pserver. It's still a joke that we full clear in 2 hours.

  2. #202
    I am Murloc! Mister K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Naxx 2.0 and trial of the crusader, ruby sanctum (doesn't really count). Wotlk basicslly only had 2 raid tiers. Wrath also started giving out free welfare epics. I like wrath for the cool factor, but honestly it's pretty over rated simply because Arthas and DK class is cool.
    Naxx was lazy but a nice throwback to those who did not experience it. It wasn't that difficult.
    ToGC was a boring raid however it was hard. Majority of guilds did not complete 25HC with no deaths and max attempts.
    TBC started giving away welfare epics too, Wrath just made it that much easier. This "welfare epics" argument is a joke.
    People do not like Wrath and rate it as the best expansion (and it is, clearly, the stats show it whether you like it or not) because of DKs and Arthas. The raids were generally better, harder, more interesting, achievements and hardmodes made the longevity of the game better. Additionally professions had a decent meta, PVP was WAY more balanced and fun.

    Sure it was a beginning of the end with LFG but outside of that, the game was great.
    -K

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    Even as a Wrath fanboy, this is an absurd statement. 3.0 was *woefully* undertuned, to the point that it was a joke even for the most casual groups. Private servers have literally buffed 3.0 raid and dungeon content by 200+% and it's still a cakewalk. It was so easy that it's almost insulting to the intelligence of the playerbase, especially coming out of TBC which was tuned quite tightly for the most part, even if it was still easy content.
    You mean like MC was totally undertuned? Yes, it is, but it is the first raid of the expansion. Don't forget that you can't compare it to anything after Vanilla and TBC, because it was back then.

    More off that TBC was totally overtuned, but back then, TBC had in it's first patch 2 1/2 Tier dungeons already implemented; so the balancing back then was totally different.

    That said, yes, 3.3.5 classes are probably too strong (with the exception of DKs are no longer as OP as they were in 3.0);

    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    3.1 was a lot better, but still undertuned.
    Nah, now you think like a retailer. To say it simple: NOTHING IN CLASSIC IS NOT UNDERTUNED: MC-NAXX were undertuned, KARA-SUNWELL will be undertuned. While you were probably a bit right in 3.0, 3.1 has a perfectly reasonable difficult-level; because don't forget that nobody managed either to defeat Lich King with 0% buff or while it was the most recent content also Yogg'saron with 0 Keepers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    If WotLK Classic launches with 3.3.5 classes and tuning and doesn't buff T7 content by at least 75%, it will be a fucking stomp, maybe even more than Vanilla Classic was.
    Yes, it will be, but that's Classic: the skill players have nowadays is so much higher, PCs became better (that also makes a huge difference), internet connections became faster, snappier and so on. There's a reason why spell batching existed and there's one why it was removed for example.

    Still: yes i think blizzard needs to give everything an tuning patch: it's good that they did it in TBC, but i think there needs to be more done in WotLK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    Source: Am currently playing heavily buffed T7 on a very popular pserver. It's still a joke that we full clear in 2 hours.
    Sorry, but Numbers of Private Servers are numbers of Private Servers: nothing worth. Since many calculations are server side and people there simply guess how it should have been, you can't compare anything that happens there to the official ones: will there be a huge gap: surely not, but still you can't compare them.

    In the end i think that if one expansions needs some classic+ content, then it's WotLK for sure. While i loved it, blizzard also did some awkward changes back then, for example the argent tournament. It was stupid to have this in icecrown and not in Crystalsong forest where it was supposed to be; but back then it was necessary because of Dalaran; that would not be the case nowadays; not just because we have much better computers, but because they could easily use some phasing or sharding technology there to go around this issues.

    And don't forget Azjol Nerub, that was also completely cut and made in just 2 dungeons. That they stomped the whole nerubian lore out of Northrend was a very bad move. This was similar bad as was to cut out Farahlon in WoD

    And for 3.3 content that seems to be totally cut i would love to see the siege of icecrown, but that's probably will never happen.
    Last edited by Velerios; 2021-06-11 at 08:05 AM.

  4. #204
    I don't get what was so great about Arthas in WOTLK though... he was like Dr Claw... showing up, could have killed is next time, only to say he would get us later. His character was not a real threat and was not handled well at all.

  5. #205
    Patch 3.1 was actually a trainwreck of a patch, it was the biggest rollercoaster ever when it comes to class changes.

    Patch 3.0 design was way more fun for most classes to play.

    (The raids being a totally different story than the patches)

  6. #206
    I don't have time for both Classic and TBC, and I prefer TBC (always have).

    It also doesn't help that I can't even log into my Classic character without paying to have it copied. With no clear plan on what they want to do with those realms it feels like I'd be wasting money.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Zergin8r View Post
    I don't get what was so great about Arthas in WOTLK though... he was like Dr Claw... showing up, could have killed is next time, only to say he would get us later. His character was not a real threat and was not handled well at all.
    “Why don’t they make super villains that just kill everybody”

    For the same reason you roll your eyes at horror movies. It’s fiction. It wouldn’t be a lot of fun if the good guys couldn’t win.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    “Why don’t they make super villains that just kill everybody”

    For the same reason you roll your eyes at horror movies. It’s fiction. It wouldn’t be a lot of fun if the good guys couldn’t win.
    He could have at least been a threat though, up to the actual ICC raid/Heroics and other than in the Wrath Gate cinematic he really did not do much. I'm not saying he should have killed us but they could have portrayed him as more than a pushover until the final patch.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Zergin8r View Post
    He could have at least been a threat though, up to the actual ICC raid/Heroics and other than in the Wrath Gate cinematic he really did not do much. I'm not saying he should have killed us but they could have portrayed him as more than a pushover until the final patch.
    "Allowing you to kill all my generals and empowered creations i spent years developing was all part of my plan."

    Makes total sense to replace dozens of bosses that could handle 10-25 of us at a time.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2021-06-11 at 08:11 PM.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Farora View Post
    Still waiting on classic fresh.
    You might be waiting forever on an official classic fresh. I know of an unofficial classic launching July 30.

  11. #211
    Bloodsail Admiral Xykotic's Avatar
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    Because we just had like two years of it after not having it for a long, long time. People wanting to return to a game old does not mean they want to play that exact old game 24/7 for the rest of their lives.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    the fact that an mmo all about playing dress up is potentialy the biggest mmo says a lot about the deplorable state of the genre
    You say that like WoW hasn't been about collecting slightly different coloured versions of outfits you already have for years now... The main purpose of covenants appears to be just that. One set for a few quests, one for anima grind and another two set for the special covenant "mini-games" grind. Unless you were lucky enough to pick Night Fae, as then you get another two Anima grinds instead. Joy.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    the fact that an mmo all about playing dress up is potentialy the biggest mmo says a lot about the deplorable state of the genre
    That's literally WoW though 99% of the people play this game to get the various cosmetic sets, mounts, and toys.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    That's literally WoW though 99% of the people play this game to get the various cosmetic sets, mounts, and toys.
    exept lfr,rdf and other activities that are in no way related to cosmetics see huge use,been playing the game since around the time AQ came out and i played probably around 80% of the games lifespan,and i LITERALY not know ONE person that plays for cosmetics/mounts or toys

  15. #215
    Bloodsail Admiral Viikkis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergin8r View Post
    He could have at least been a threat though, up to the actual ICC raid/Heroics and other than in the Wrath Gate cinematic he really did not do much. I'm not saying he should have killed us but they could have portrayed him as more than a pushover until the final patch.
    Yeah Lich King feels like a saturday morning cartoon villain in Wrath. Shows up with big talk then makes some minions of him to "get rid of the unwanted guests!" and we beat the minions and so on.

    But there's a reason why Arthas appears after every corner in Northrend. In TBC Blizzard found out that many players didn't even know who Illidan was and why we were fighting him. So they made sure to introduce the villain more in Wrath but they over did it IMO.

  16. #216
    They are dead since classic went live and all has been grinded to the bones.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Froggy View Post
    You might be waiting forever on an official classic fresh. I know of an unofficial classic launching July 30.
    Hmmmm. Never played on private before.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Xykotic View Post
    Because we just had like two years of it after not having it for a long, long time. People wanting to return to a game old does not mean they want to play that exact old game 24/7 for the rest of their lives.
    Thank you. Not to mention many people have more responsibilities, and other things going on in their lives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Ah come on Granyala, there's several possible reasons for it. A few that would get us banned here like pointing out a deficite in his mental capacity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oktoberfest View Post
    Man I swear, every time someone uses the term 'Critical Thinking' I want to pop em in the mouth.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister K View Post
    Naxx was lazy but a nice throwback to those who did not experience it. It wasn't that difficult.
    ToGC was a boring raid however it was hard. Majority of guilds did not complete 25HC with no deaths and max attempts.
    TBC started giving away welfare epics too, Wrath just made it that much easier. This "welfare epics" argument is a joke.
    People do not like Wrath and rate it as the best expansion (and it is, clearly, the stats show it whether you like it or not) because of DKs and Arthas. The raids were generally better, harder, more interesting, achievements and hardmodes made the longevity of the game better. Additionally professions had a decent meta, PVP was WAY more balanced and fun.

    Sure it was a beginning of the end with LFG but outside of that, the game was great.
    Don't forget, Ulduar is still (imo) the best raid they ever built, for pure fun, and it wasn't a cakewalk with hardmodes, either.

  20. #220
    they better be farming naxx because according to them vanilla is the pinnacle of video gaming and blizzard sold out starting with tbc

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