1. #1

    Slice and Dice AND Roll the bones?

    I'm just curious whether I'm the only one that thinks that Outlaw has become too complicated?

    Look, I'm sure it's still one of the more simple specs out there, I'm sure that X, Y and Z specs are all way more complicated and that I'm just a big ol' massive nooblet for not liking this, but pre-Shadowlands Outlaw was fun and straight forward.

    You were either maintaining Slice and Dice, or you were fishing for the buff combination of Roll the Bones with the most value.

    And now they're having us do both? As well as make sure to pop Blade Rush for the energy regen? As well as remember to press a covenant ability?

    I dunno, am I the only one that sorta misses the simpler choppy-choppy hack and slash days rather than this focus on spinning loads of plates?
    Last edited by LarryFromHumanResources; 2021-05-26 at 06:54 PM.
    Corporate wishes everyone a happy new year

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    I'm just curious whether I'm the only one that thinks that Outlaw has become too complicated?

    Look, I'm sure it's still one of the more simple specs out there, I'm sure that X, Y and Z specs are all way more complicated and that I'm just a big ol' massive nooblet for not liking this, but pre-Shadowlands Outlaw was fun and straight forward.

    You were either maintaining Slice and Dice, or you were fishing for the buff combination of Roll the Bones with the most value.

    And now they're having us do both? As well as make sure to pop Blade Rush for the energy regen? As well as remember to press a covenant ability?

    I dunno, am I the only one that sorta misses the simpler choppy-choppy hack and slash days rather than this focus on spinning loads of plates?

    The difference is that now it has a cooldown, so you press it much less often. It's much different than the iteration where you spent all the combo points on that until you got something good.

    Anyway, this is the first iteration of Combat/Outlaw that I like, I always stayed the hell away from it. I guess different strokes for different folks.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    You were either maintaining Slice and Dice, or you were fishing for the buff combination of Roll the Bones with the most value.
    It's a lot harder to 'fish' when it has a CD.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  4. #4
    RtB and SnD are not complicated.

    I mean, I'd argue SnD is kind of boring to maintain 'just because', and RtB has RNG elements, but there are some fun aspects like the heal tick on the conduit for SnD, or when you do get certain rolls that engage the rotation more.

    But I wouldn't call them complicated. Unnecessary bloat that could be baked into other abilities, maybe. But not complicated.

    Like, SnD and RtB could be completely and fully rolled into one ability or random procs off other finishers and it'd feel pretty similar.

    Gives you less to do in stealth if they're gone, especially prepping SnD pre combat with MfD, but I could understand if someone found that just busywork for a buff. Kinda why it was removed initially, anyway.

    I find the current version fun, too. But y'know, whatever.
    Last edited by Razion; 2021-05-27 at 12:26 AM.

  5. #5
    I remember back in WOTLK when they first discussed getting rid of "Hunger for Blood" and how they talked about not wanting to spend combo points on anything other than SND because they wanted players to be able to spend them on meaningful attacks instead of trying to keep up a bunch of things that added % based damage gains. Then they took HFB out, gave ret pallys combo points and gave them an ability that increased damage and haste per combo point spent, saying it was a great idea....lol

    Then gave them rtbs and snd, to be used constant during their rotations.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    I'm just curious whether I'm the only one that thinks that Outlaw has become too complicated?

    Look, I'm sure it's still one of the more simple specs out there, I'm sure that X, Y and Z specs are all way more complicated and that I'm just a big ol' massive nooblet for not liking this, but pre-Shadowlands Outlaw was fun and straight forward.

    You were either maintaining Slice and Dice, or you were fishing for the buff combination of Roll the Bones with the most value.

    And now they're having us do both? As well as make sure to pop Blade Rush for the energy regen? As well as remember to press a covenant ability?

    I dunno, am I the only one that sorta misses the simpler choppy-choppy hack and slash days rather than this focus on spinning loads of plates?
    Nothing in this game is really hard.
    But I have to say that personally, having played several melee and a few ranged specs, that Outlaw is definitely among the harder to play specs.
    Not that it's difficult to grasp or anything, but you're just juggling a lot of balls(*) and requires a lot more attention and focus than a lot of other specs.

    It's a bit of a preference thing. I personally think the current outlaw is pretty nice, I don't mind SnD that much. It's easy to keep up and out of ALL the Outlaw things to keep in mind it's both long duration and more or less predictable where the rest is not.
    If you feel like it's 'annoying' a lot of the times, just burn MfD at the start of the fight on SnD and you're generally good. In single target you should have plenty of time to double check SnD and frankly I'm unlucky (as the SnD buff is arguably one of the worst ones) enough to roll SnD buff enough during ST fights that it's almost up permanently.

    As I said, I personally am growing to like it. It's hectic yes, but it also gives a lot of room to grow and get better at the spec.
    On the other hand I don't feel SnD really adds much to the spec (interaction wise); so I wouldn't really mind it if it was removed again.


    (*) Keep an eye on SnD / RtB duration / RtB buffs, as they alter your rotation and priority and whether or not you refresh early / Opportunity procs / BtE CD / MfD CD / Vanish CD / KS or BR CD / Covenant ability CD / AR CD / BF uptime and CD in AoE.
    With how fast the energy income is and how short and erratic most cooldowns are on Outlaw you have to keep an eye on everything as the CDs aren't as predictable as on other specs/classes.
    E.g as Assa rogue you also have a lot of things to keep an eye on with multiple bleeds; but I feel like the pacing is more predictable.
    Last edited by Nythiz; 2021-05-27 at 04:27 PM.

  7. #7
    I wouldn't call it complicated but it sure has a lot going on right now. On top of the usual SS & Dispatch spam you have to keep an eye on SnD, RtB, BtE, BF, AR, BR and then have you other eye on the mechanics.

    Feels pretty busy for sure and is one of the highest (if not the highest) APM specs in the game.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunderella View Post
    I wouldn't call it complicated but it sure has a lot going on right now. On top of the usual SS & Dispatch spam you have to keep an eye on SnD, RtB, BtE, BF, AR, BR and then have you other eye on the mechanics.

    Feels pretty busy for sure and is one of the highest (if not the highest) APM specs in the game.
    While that's definitely not incorrect, thankfully a lot of this can be nigh-automated using addons. A lot of the decision-making simply comes down to certain conditions (do you have buff X and Y combo points? use/don't use ability Z, etc.) and therefore can be turned into things like WAs and the like. It doesn't completely take away a need for skill awareness, but it certainly makes things easier if you just know to press a button when something lights up.

    It certainly FEELS better than the infinite reroll spam in previous versions, even if I do agree that S&D as a pure maintenance buff isn't necessarily something the spec really needed.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    But I wouldn't call them complicated. Unnecessary bloat that could be baked into other abilities, maybe. But not complicated.
    Thank you, that's my feeling exactly.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    I'm just curious whether I'm the only one that thinks that Outlaw has become too complicated?

    Look, I'm sure it's still one of the more simple specs out there, I'm sure that X, Y and Z specs are all way more complicated and that I'm just a big ol' massive nooblet for not liking this, but pre-Shadowlands Outlaw was fun and straight forward.

    You were either maintaining Slice and Dice, or you were fishing for the buff combination of Roll the Bones with the most value.

    And now they're having us do both? As well as make sure to pop Blade Rush for the energy regen? As well as remember to press a covenant ability?

    I dunno, am I the only one that sorta misses the simpler choppy-choppy hack and slash days rather than this focus on spinning loads of plates?
    Unnecessarily and tediously complicated i might add.
    Not to the point that would make me reroll specc/class but still i'd prefer the BfA version of Outlaw.
    So ye.. i feel exactly the same.

  11. #11
    It's just, RtB is a maintenance buff, S&D is a maintenance buff, ghost strike is a maintenance buff, between the eyes is a maintenance buff... That's kind of, well, wtf really. Did they actually think about this design?

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