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  1. #1

    KSM S2 Requires both Tyrannical and Fortified.

    +15 Fort + Tyrannical timed to get the recolored mount.

    Interesting change, disappointing reward.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/season-...AUOj-DX37wApJs
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  2. #2
    People don't want to run keys on tyrannical because it's a shit affix and works against the other affixes and artificially increases the difficulty by adding time not necessarily difficulty. Better make it mandatory instead of fixing it!

  3. #3
    Immortal Raugnaut's Avatar
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    !@#$, going to have to run 20 of the shitty poorly designed dungeons rather then merely 10. Was hoping when they said they'll have seperate scores that you could merely do a mix of both tyrannical and fortified, but nope, have to do all 20
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  4. #4
    Players: "Can you just replace Fortified and Tyrannical?"

    *Blizzard makes both mandatory and simultaneously doubles the amount of effort and time required for a recolor.*

    Actually retarded. This dev team is truly something special.
    Last edited by Radaney; 2021-05-27 at 03:43 AM.

  5. #5
    I dont get the whining, a 15 tyrannical is the same boss hp as what a 17 fort? Also it isnt that hard, especially with pride being gone you wont have to worry about wiping on a pride boss and not having it. Sounds like a get good situation.
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  6. #6
    No it doesn't. Don't feed into that clickbait nonsense from Wowhead.
    It requires a set score, and if you are afraid to do keys above 15, it will require both.
    But most players will seemingly get it just from playing without having to worry.
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  7. #7
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    I'm okay with this since I feel like this is going to be something anyone who does keys regularly gets incidentally anyway, although it does get kinda annoying when you're in the home stretch and have to hunt specific keys down; now you have to do that two weeks in a row. So it'll take longer, but not really harder, and it does give you leeway if you do really good in one dungeon to balance out another you might be behind in.

    I do find it annoying that everyone hates Tyrannical, it's terrible for push weeks, just an annoying slog... and their solution isn't to fix it or replace it, it's just to make it mandatory.

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I'm okay with this since I feel like this is going to be something anyone who does keys regularly gets incidentally anyway, although it does get kinda annoying when you're in the home stretch and have to hunt specific keys down; now you have to do that two weeks in a row. So it'll take longer, but not really harder, and it does give you leeway if you do really good in one dungeon to balance out another you might be behind in.

    I do find it annoying that everyone hates Tyrannical, it's terrible for push weeks, just an annoying slog... and their solution isn't to fix it or replace it, it's just to make it mandatory.
    I mean to be fair you technically don't have to hunt it, as you can do higher level keys to replace the score, so if you only need a tyrannical or 2, you can just do a 17 or 18 fort instead, as the score is required rather than the specific dungeon/weekly affixes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    I dont get the whining, a 15 tyrannical is the same boss hp as what a 17 fort? Also it isnt that hard, especially with pride being gone you wont have to worry about wiping on a pride boss and not having it. Sounds like a get good situation.
    It's not hard, it's fucking slow and tedious.

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivank0v View Post
    +15 Fort + Tyrannical timed to get the recolored mount.

    Interesting change, disappointing reward.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/season-...AUOj-DX37wApJs
    Actually, that's not the case. To get the mount you need a 2000 rating. In order to get that "easily" you can do +15 timed on both Tyrannical and Fortified. However, you can also do a +16 or higher and not time them and still get the 2000 rating. So for instance if you do a +17 of every dungeon both Tyrannical and Fortified you should still be able to hit the 2000 rating with how they have it set up.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    It's not hard, it's fucking slow and tedious.
    Meh I did like 20 M+ the first week for gear, and combined with them giving a reward for +20s I have something to push for anyways.

    Slow I'll give you, but tedious? Less so with the fact you can swap keys and you can push whatever key you get higher and higher and it will help get KSM, I can see a lot of people pushing Mists keys to like 19-20 and getting only 12-13 on a dungeon they hate.
    Last edited by bledgor; 2021-05-27 at 04:15 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    not like it's going to be hard... they should have moved it to having to finish +20s...
    the dungeons will get buffed so it will be the same difficulty,with some minor differences do to new theme and maybe stronger or weaker trinkets from raid tier

  13. #13
    Blizzard needs to realize already the playerbase wants to do mythic+ with the easiest possible affixes only and anything else is just annoying.

    Meta class stacking + easiest affix combos = only way we want to play.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    Blizzard needs to realize already the playerbase wants to do mythic+ with the easiest possible affixes only and anything else is just annoying.

    Meta class stacking + easiest affix combos = only way we want to play.
    Not even remotely true.
    But tyrannical is just a shitty affix that's still way harder than fortified.

  15. #15
    I'm reading that "Completing both a Tyrannical and Fortified +15 keystone just in time is about 249 points." Does that mean the two new mythic dungeons don't count?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Not even remotely true.
    But tyrannical is just a shitty affix that's still way harder than fortified.
    Tyrannical is harder than fortified so it’s sucks.

    If/when it’s changed and fortified is harder than tyrannical then fortified will suck.

    If both are removed explosive and necrotic suck.

    The playerbase is always looking for the easiest and best way.

    Just like classic, the easier version of the game, was instantly tuned into a meta clas stacking, world buff stacking, consumable stacking cheese fest to parse on a 3rd party site.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    I dont get the whining, a 15 tyrannical is the same boss hp as what a 17 fort? Also it isnt that hard, especially with pride being gone you wont have to worry about wiping on a pride boss and not having it. Sounds like a get good situation.
    Nope.
    It's like a 18 1/2 fortified boss.

    The math is: base_hp * keystone_mod * 1.3 (tyrannical)

    keystone_mod = 1.08^(keystone_level - 2)
    1.3 is something like 1.08^(3.5)
    Last edited by Keashaa; 2021-05-27 at 06:19 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Marakara View Post
    I'm reading that "Completing both a Tyrannical and Fortified +15 keystone just in time is about 249 points." Does that mean the two new mythic dungeons don't count?
    The new 8 boss megadungeon won't be available for m+ until at least 9.1.5, possibly even 9.2. At least that's the case if they're following the structure of Karazhan and Mechagon.
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  19. #19
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    If people in the m+ community did things based on what was easier, there'd be no such thing as pushing keys. People don't dislike Tyrannical because it's harder (in some dungeons and in mid-range keys I don't think it even is harder), people dislike it because it's slower.

    Hard trash is engaging and might cause you to approach it in diferent ways or plan your route around it. A boss with more hit points and marginally more damage does nothing but make fights take much longer and Zzzzz.

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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited Power View Post
    The new 8 boss megadungeon won't be available for m+ until at least 9.1.5, possibly even 9.2. At least that's the case if they're following the structure of Karazhan and Mechagon.
    I would go with this assumption, as well. Tuning for mid-expansion dungeons has always been a bit wonky, to the point where Seat of the Triumverate dungeon in the Legion MDI had to remove Fortified/Tyrannical in favor of a 3rd affix due to the difficulty being way off compared to other tested dungeons. It's safer to have a dungeon run on normal/heroic/mythic for a patch cycle to iron out all the bugs, then release for M+... where inevitably numbers tuning will get done several times because Fortified/Tyrannical causes scaling issues that you just don't normally see.
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