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  1. #61
    Pandaren Monk Redroniksre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    The bigger issue is the boost. The Phase-Hunter is just an easy tell that somebody more than likely used the boost.

    A lot of people returned to Classic in part specifically to escape the contemporary money milking practices that retail WoW has now, and that started getting worse because people kept making excuses and stating "It's just a mount, it's just a pet, it's just a helm, it's just a boost, it's just.." Naturally, those same people wouldn't be keen about Blizzard then trying the same for WoW and having people make yet the same excuses. "It's just x."

    At the end of the day, I'm sure a lot of Classic players feel like the game they asked for for years is being ruined and milked by retail players who defend it exactly because it has become the status quo on retail.

    I say this as somebody who plays only retail, hasn't even installed Classic or TBC Classic at any point and hasn't had any interest in 15 year old content, but has seen some of the arguments for why people prefer it, and the lack of a cash shop, paid boosts, etc. ranks very high on that list and has for years.

    tl;dr: people clamoring for classic for years feel like retail whales have come into the game that they so desired and ripped it apart and given blizzard an opportunity to turn it into the same cynical money milking scheme that retail has in a sense become.
    I can understand that sentiment, though i feel like without that boost a lot of people who want to play TBC would never be able to slog through Vanilla levelling. So in essence, it has allowed more people to play than would have otherwise (i know my friend has as well). I can't say i agree with the affect of the shop on retail. The shop has had really no noticeable impact on the game since all that is sold there are mounts and the boost. The boost has been practically invalidated thanks to levelling streamlining, and the mounts and pets are all vanity. The "worst" of it has already been added to TBC, so there is no going down from there unless people care about those vanity mounts -so damn much-.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    A lot of people returned to Classic in part specifically to escape the contemporary money milking practices that retail WoW has now, and that started getting worse because people kept making excuses and stating "It's just a mount, it's just a pet, it's just a helm, it's just a boost, it's just.." Naturally, those same people wouldn't be keen about Blizzard then trying the same for WoW and having people make yet the same excuses. "It's just x."

    At the end of the day, I'm sure a lot of Classic players feel like the game they asked for for years is being ruined and milked by retail players who defend it exactly because it has become the status quo on retail.
    Why would anyone who loathes the practices in retail expect Classic - released by the same people - to be different? It’s literally the same company.

    If someone hates Blizzard’s monetization practices, they should stay away from Blizzard products.

    This whole “I’m going to make it better by giving them money and complaining on forums” is just asinine.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    Why would anyone who loathes the practices in retail expect Classic - released by the same people - to be different? It’s literally the same company.

    If someone hates Blizzard’s monetization practices, they should stay away from Blizzard products.
    I mean, that's one of my reasons for why I didn't even bother with Classic myself.

    But they asked for years and expected a time capsule, which Classic-Classic(?) was for the most part. But TBC Classic clearly isn't what with the boosts, so they're lashing out because they feel like Classic is being retailized.

  4. #64
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    The bigger issue is the boost. The Phase-Hunter is just an easy tell that somebody more than likely used the boost.

    A lot of people returned to Classic in part specifically to escape the contemporary money milking practices that retail WoW has now, and that started getting worse because people kept making excuses and stating "It's just a mount, it's just a pet, it's just a helm, it's just a boost, it's just.." Naturally, those same people wouldn't be keen about Blizzard then trying the same for WoW and having people make yet the same excuses. "It's just x."

    At the end of the day, I'm sure a lot of Classic players feel like the game they asked for for years is being ruined and milked by retail players who defend it exactly because it has become the status quo on retail.

    I say this as somebody who plays only retail, hasn't even installed Classic or TBC Classic at any point and hasn't had any interest in 15 year old content, but has seen some of the arguments for why people prefer it, and the lack of a cash shop, paid boosts, etc. ranks very high on that list and has for years.

    tl;dr: people clamoring for classic for years feel like retail whales have come into the game that they so desired and ripped it apart and given blizzard an opportunity to turn it into the same cynical money milking scheme that retail has in a sense become.
    Thanks for being honest about this. A lot of the discussions and threads here are made by people who obviously have not played classic and have no interest in (which is obvious when looking at their post history), but seem compelled to stir the community for some reason I do not quite understand in this strange retail versus classic competition.

    First of all, there is no such thing as a vanilla purist. I think everyone agrees that major bugs should be fixed, and that a few changes to things that make no sense are welcomed. Vanilla purists is a concept created by people not playing classic who come here to try to provoke people playing classic.

    Also, and I am sharing this from talking to a lot of people with whom I play in Classic, the main reason that draws players to come back to classic and why they have stopped playing retail a few expansion ago has nothing to do with the cash shop. It is mainly because retail has become a single player game. The LFG which is base on ilevel, totally killed the social and community feel of a MMORPG. You could be playing with robots for all that matters. People are rude, don't talk and barely interact. And redoing the same content with a difficulty slider, on top of titanforging, is a majorn turn off as well, because if you fall behind, you won't find groups because your ilevel will be lagging.

    So back to the main topic.. I personnally don't care if you can buy a one-time boost to lvl58, so you can hop in TBC. It would be a major turn off to be levelling alone in a ghost town just to catch up. Those boosts are clearly undergeared and certainly do not have an advantage over characters that have been raiding.

    And cosmetic stuff does not bother me in the slightest..

  5. #65
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savant View Post
    Dude raised hundrend thousands for charity, why trash him?
    Because he rallys his community of brainless sheep to harass people?

    Not to mention that if there is any kind of negativity related to blizzard or wow, even if it is just a tiny thing, he fans the flames to agitate his viewers to monetize on it.

    Lets face it, hes a hypocritical piece of shit that jumps on any hate bandwagon he sees to make money, yet simultaneously complains about mtx/tokens, etc.
    Last edited by Nnyco; 2021-05-31 at 04:46 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    This is snowflake epeen territory. Nothing is unique in the game anymore. In game or shop purchased. Removing the shop would not change that. People would still buy mount and cosmetic boosts. This is speaking as someone who's had the realm 2nd mount Al'ar. Everything becomes less prestigous in time.
    I had the first Al'ar mount. I say the opposite. My argument has more validity because arbituary reasons i just made up.

    Also lemme put in some y2k words to underline my arguments:

    Woke, 1337, #Hashtag, Caitlyn Jenner and CIS.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    I play a video game to have fun. I like showing off my skills and accomplishments in the game I play. You running around the game with a bought mount and paying to hit level 58 devalues all my effort. Why level 1-58 when you can pull out a credit card? Why work hard to get a mount when you can just buy a unique one? You want to show off you have money then do what I do and buy a Porsche and drive it around. Coming into my game and using a credit card to buy your way in is not impressing anyone.
    Cool. I don't care. Mostly because it is most certainly not your game. And if what somebody else does affects your enjoyment simply because they didn't grind away at something, that's a you problem.

    I own three store bought mounts. Why? Because I thought they were really cool. If you want to spend your time grinding for mounts, cool, knock yourself out. That's perfectly fine. Me, my time is important to me. If I need to spend 50 hours trying to be lucky enough to get a mount, or work for 1 hour and then use that money to get a cool mount I will gladly go that route.

    You do what you want with your time and let others do what they want with theirs. Because despite what you claim, what other people do has zero impact on you.

  8. #68
    I honestly don't get why people are upset. It's gonna be like the Diablo 3 mount. You all know that, right? It's gonna be everywhere. It's not gonna be 1 or 2 people in shat with it, in the middle, showing off. No. Your gonna see them Fing everywhere. Especially when leveling. It saves a few hundred gold. Relax people. It's gon b kay.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Man...Blizzard, the company that apparently only cares about money makes mounts "noone cares about"?

    The achievements for having a shitloads of mounts and people chasing them ...the fact that I today still instantly get ppl joining my rare summons that drop mounts seem to disagree with you ^^



    Yeah, I know this is just a rhetorical question. And obviously you can answer it yourself ^^
    No i'm genuinely asking. Why would people buy them

  10. #70
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    I had the first Al'ar mount. I say the opposite. My argument has more validity because arbituary reasons i just made up.

    Also lemme put in some y2k words to underline my arguments:

    Woke, 1337, #Hashtag, Caitlyn Jenner and CIS.
    Clearly arguing from a rational standpoint with a valid counter argument with that statement. You sir, have bested me. How could I possibly refute that kind of brilliance? Now put your toys away, it's time for bed.

  11. #71
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    I always wondered... did anyone actually play the TCG game?
    I did for a bit until I got loot hungry and suddenly had the itch to scratch those 50 cards I had piling up in the corner, away from the main pile..
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan2 View Post
    extremely smart people like Asmongold
    i almost spit my tea

  13. #73
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savant View Post
    TLDR: Blizzard Cashshop was thing in TBC onwards, but it was structured differently. Not to mention in game services, like Name change/Realm Transfer.
    By the new rules put in around the world, TCG was basically, gambling. Heck, with the new rules, even Pokémon cards are basically gambling..

    Safety of the store:
    Blizzard store -> Select Product -> Purchase -> Receive

    The TCG rabbit hole:
    Blizzard -> Contracted Production -> Vendor -> Select Product -> Purchase -> Hope For Product To Have Wished For Content -> Receive
    Blizzard -> Contracted Production -> Vendor -> Select Product -> Purchase -> Hope For Product To Have Wished For Content -> Do Not Receive
    Blizzard -> Contracted Production -> Vendor -> Select Product -> Purchase -> Hope For Product To Have Wished For Content -> Receive -> Post Online For Extortionate Amount Of Money -> Sell -> Send Off -> Buyer Receive.
    Blizzard -> Contracted Production -> Vendor -> Select Product -> Purchase -> Hope For Product To Have Wished For Content -> Receive -> Post Online For Extortionate Amount Of Money -> Sell -> Send Off -> Buyer Receive -> Card Code Has Been Used.
    Blizzard -> Contracted Production -> Vendor -> Select Product -> Purchase -> Hope For Product To Have Wished For Content -> Receive -> Post Online For Extortionate Amount Of Money -> Sell -> Do Not Send Off -> Buyer Loss -> Repost -> Etc.
    Post Online For Extortionate Amount Of Money -> Sell -> Do Not Send Off -> Buyer Loss -> Repost -> Etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan2 View Post
    you are right, it was an issue back then as well - but only very few people had the wisdom to identify it.

    today, with extremely smart people like Asmongold having a massive audience, it's become clear to pretty much everyone why micro/macro-transactions have no place in an MMORPG.
    You do not need to be smart to be toxic, nor do you need to be stupid to be toxic.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  14. #74
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    They are causing sensationalism, because they rely on having more viewers.

    The real problem in shot shops with no gameplay effect, but GDKP... none talks about that big elephant in the room. Gold laundry at its finest.

    it is easier to flame instead people who got deluxe rofl, which has 0 impact on the game.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    Clearly arguing from a rational standpoint with a valid counter argument with that statement. You sir, have bested me. How could I possibly refute that kind of brilliance? Now put your toys away, it's time for bed.
    I see the point went past you completely.

    My post was a mockery of yours. None of the arguments in that post bear any weight whatsoever.

  16. #76
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    I see the point went past you completely.

    My post was a mockery of yours. None of the arguments in that post bear any weight whatsoever.
    Again, thank you for the explanation. You're really helping me keep up.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    Which just mean that you care too much about pixels.
    Stupid argument. The entire game is made of pixels, duh.
    And making part of it buyable just cheapens the game design, philosophy and experience.

    You'd think that after seeing the consequences on retail, people would get the problem and not throw the overused idiotic "if you don't like it, don't do it".

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    ROFL. What's "extremely smart" about being nothing more than a hypocritical troll that capitalizes on the hatetrain against blizzard?
    He was big brained when he advertised that toxic weak aura to auto spit on people riding that mount. The dumb masses loved that one.

  19. #79
    The Lightbringer The-Shan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    ....the fact that the most successful non wow MMOs make most of their money from microtransactions shows this is kinda a lie


    Also macro transactions...like do you even know what that is?
    These games lose a huge amount of their appeal the denser/more involved the microtransactions are. People want a form of escapism, and the moment you start involving dollar signs and allowing payment for ingame achievements, it starts to lose its luster, its sense of wonder. Just because most of them do it today, doesn't mean it's a good thing. During the renaissance of the MMORPG (2000s) games didn't have these cash shops in the west, at least not very prevalently.

    People want to get lost in these games, and cash shops make that difficult. There's a reason the MMO genre is fading, it's because its so hard to get lost in them now, to get totally immersed and feel a drive to achieve. Cash shops aren't the only thing that contributes to this, but it's a huge part of it.

    Blizzard compounded the blowback from this by making an entirely new mount that looks like its from retail on 'low' graphics. It doesn't look like a classic mount, and its gigantic, sticking out like a sore thumb. It looks obnoxious and it hurts the illusion of going back to a better time that people want out of TBC. I guarantee you it wouldn't have been as bad if they just threw the feldrake, rooster, or the nether rocket in and called it a day.
    Last edited by The-Shan; 2021-06-01 at 10:20 AM.
    thinly veiled high elf thread

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Shan View Post
    These games lose a huge amount of their appeal the denser/more involved the microtransactions are. People want a form of escapism, and the moment you start involving dollar signs and allowing payment for ingame achievements, it starts to lose its luster, its sense of wonder. Just because most of them do it today, doesn't mean it's a good thing. During the renaissance of the MMORPG (2000s) games didn't have these cash shops in the west, at least not very prevalently.

    People want to get lost in these games, and cash shops make that difficult. There's a reason the MMO genre is fading, it's because its so hard to get lost in them now, to get totally immersed and feel a drive to achieve. Cash shops aren't the only thing that contributes to this, but it's a huge part of it.

    Blizzard compounded the blowback from this by making an entirely new mount that looks like its from retail on 'low' graphics. It doesn't look like a classic mount, and its gigantic, sticking out like a sore thumb. It looks obnoxious and it hurts the illusion of going back to a better time that people want out of TBC. I guarantee you it wouldn't have been as bad if they just threw the feldrake, rooster, or the nether rocket in and called it a day.
    MMORPGs being less popular is probably more related to general attention spans and the fact that they just can’t make them challenging enough. It’s a genre that requires a steep initial investment to get up the power curve.

    MMOs are also boring as fuck to watch.

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