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  1. #241
    Elemental Lord Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    No one said that the harassment shouldn't stop in an ideal world.

    Most people have simply been saying that harassment isn't suddenly more important or more worthy of note, sympathy, or action simply because of who you are.
    What would you call the dismissal of harassment in this thread then? Many posters have said something to the effect of "This is how things are, suck it up." Rather than admonish the harassers they put the onus on the victims to "get over it."

    Please read a history book. Certain groups of people have suffered far more intensely and frequently because of who they are. Are you saying that slaves or holocaust victims aren't deserving of greater sympathy and required more urgent action to be taken in their defense? Because they were put in those situations precisely because of who they were.

    Everyone suffers, but some people suffer more than others, often because of things they have no control over. That has always been true. I'd like to dream of a world where we stop such primitive harassment. Perhaps it's idealistic, but it's better than being apathetic.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    What would you call the dismissal of harassment in this thread then? Many posters have said something to the effect of "This is how things are, suck it up." Rather than admonish the harassers they put the onus on the victims to "get over it."

    Please read a history book. Certain groups of people have suffered far more intensely and frequently because of who they are. Are you saying that slaves or holocaust victims aren't deserving of greater sympathy and required more urgent action to be taken in their defense? Because they were put in those situations precisely because of who they were.

    Everyone suffers, but some people suffer more than others, often because of things they have no control over. That has always been true. I'd like to dream of a world where we stop such primitive harassment. Perhaps it's idealistic, but it's better than being apathetic.
    Really? We're going to break out the Holocaust to support a claim that "go to kitchen" is worse than any other form of harassment?

    We did it, thread. We reached the point where "go to kitchen" is paralleled with genocide. People DEFINITELY aren't being unreasonable or anything.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The "I don't want to play a game because people repeatedly call me shitty things" notion is a more persuasive argument than "I don't want to play a game because I can't repeatedly call people shitty things."
    Shit talking is literally the nature of competetive pvp, not that its necessarily the only part of it, but getting angry over defeats or generally being a troll to slip up your enemies is a legit tactic, if it works, it works.

    Theres a reason you can play psychologically to a persons emotions and use them to win a competition, it may not be "honorable" but its "legitimate" as a tactic and has been for years.

    Its the rule of:

    He called me X

    Then call him Y.

    Dont feel you have to be above their level, lower yourself to it and accept this is the nature of the game itself.

    If its not something your cozy with? Seriously? Dont play FPS games competetively, its not a good enviroment for those with a weak confidence/will.

    You need to have a steel will and not give a fuck.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgrym View Post
    You're in for a bit of a surprise if you try this at work or school. Gaming communities are a cesspool.
    But this is not work or school. You probably wouldn't get away with this in a lot of places. That doesn't change the fact that you're the one who controls how you respond to it.
    Still calling them out, one infraction at a time.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgrym View Post
    You're in for a bit of a surprise if you try this at work or school. Gaming communities are a cesspool.
    You sound like my grandmother lol. "If you wouldn't say it in front of your preacher you shouldn't say it at all!"

    People act differently according to their different environments. More news at 11 back to you Dan!

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    What would you call the dismissal of harassment in this thread then? Many posters have said something to the effect of "This is how things are, suck it up." Rather than admonish the harassers they put the onus on the victims to "get over it."

    Please read a history book. Certain groups of people have suffered far more intensely and frequently because of who they are. Are you saying that slaves or holocaust victims aren't deserving of greater sympathy and required more urgent action to be taken in their defense? Because they were put in those situations precisely because of who they were.

    Everyone suffers, but some people suffer more than others, often because of things they have no control over. That has always been true. I'd like to dream of a world where we stop such primitive harassment. Perhaps it's idealistic, but it's better than being apathetic.
    Most it this involves tackling the problem from a realistic standpoint, and weighing the pro's and con's of the scenario. The reality of the situation is that the level of harassment is insanely low to benign in the OP's scenario, and any efforts beyond ignoring/muting would likely cause way more issues than it would solve. I could even argue that any action that Blizz could take wouldn't change the behavior at all or make it worse at this level.

    There is the saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me," but either everyone has forgotten it or doesn't understand what it means. Apparently, we've gotten to the point where we're equating the damage of name-calling to actual physical violence, which as a best case scenario is an extreme stretch... but the more likely scenario is that people are being overly sensitive. Going back to one of my previous posts, over-sensitivity seemingly occurs when people actually are living in peaceful/easy times and don't experience real dangers/drama, so they have to make it up or make a mountain out of a mole hill... because people crave drama and conflict. It's insanely apparent in today's media (whether social or news), where everything is racist/sexist/<insert random -ist> despite actual evidence and logic pointing to the exact opposite... while the irony is that such narratives actually fuel, incite, and sometimes become racism/sexism/<insert random -ism> where none or little existed. As such, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy in the long run when people buy into the narrative that was wrong/flawed from the start, but that's another thread.

    So what does this all mean? In this specific case, people are saying to ignore the individuals because the scenario described is so benign in the grand scheme of things. There was no call to action or violence, it was just stupid people saying stupid things that ultimately lead to nothing and had no actual malice behind them (stupidity does not automatically equate to violent/literal intent). As I said in my previous post, if the individuals were constantly following the OP around, circumventing ignore/mute mechanics (such as creating multiple accounts to constantly whisper such things), etc., then this scenario would elevate to something where Blizz should probably step in.

    Ultimately, as I've stated before, this is all about human nature. While the idealistic view is that you can end all forms of harassment, the realistic view is two-fold: people's definitions of harassment are so varied and skewed and lacking perspective (especially nowadays) that you'd never get a consensus on what constitutes harassment, and even with a unified harassment definition you'd never get rid of it completely. That's just how human nature works. Even as an individual, fighting your own nature can be extremely difficult in some cases... but when it comes to problems like this, controlling your own actions is still way easier and effective than trying to control the actions of others. Similarly, if an issue that is a result of human nature is small to benign, it's not uncommon that it's better to ignore said issue as the solution can be equally as bad or worse... or you just make more problems for yourself and everyone else. The only times intervention should even be considered is for a moderate or severe problem, exactly because fighting human nature never ends well, and the choice between the two is always a choice of the lesser of two evils.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    If you guys really think that saying that white men are typically the ones who are dismissive of the issues that women and people of color face is racist, then you really don't have any clue what racism actually feels like or how it impacts the lives of those who experience it. Which, like I said, proves my point.

    That's like saying someone's racist for saying that white people owned slaves. It's not racist to state a fact. If you wish to prove me wrong then by all means go ahead and verify your race. I'm still entirely confident that the majority of people in this thread saying to "suck it up and get over it" are white men. Why? Because white men don't face discrimination due to their race and don't experience the same types of sexism as women. Therefore, they don't understand it, dismiss it, and tell people who do have different lived experiences to just "get over it."

    Also obviously don't feed the trolls. I'm not saying you should get upset when someone says some dumb shit to you online, but that doesn't mean you can't advocate for that harassment to stop.
    Once again, you are assuming the color of people's skin and also assuming their gender which is both racist and sexist. I know plenty of women who discriminate against men and women. I know plenty of POC who discriminate against white people and other POC. So placing all the blame on "white men" when you literally have no idea who is behind the keyboard is nothing but a sexist comment and shows you are a hypocrite.

  8. #248
    Good god this thread has just devolved into identity Olympics.

    Mods, time to give this one a close.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Notshauna View Post
    For what it's worth I totally agree with you, Overwatch in particular has a huge problem with misogyny and while I haven't experienced any personally I've heard countless women including my sister complain about it. That being said with regards to this particular website you are barking up the wrong tree as they've long since given up on reigning in the parades of bigots.
    Again:

    A) It's not our problem that you can't deal with stupid people.
    B) You need to grow up and learn how to deal with stupid people.

    The solution lies with you. Not Blizzard, not MMO-Champion - YOU. Learn to ignore this behavior and it will go away. Once they see they're not getting attention for it, they will stop.

    But hey, what do I know? I'm only someone twice your age who's dealt with people saying mean and stupid things about them for a lot longer than you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Yeah... no, but good job making random accusation that have zero weight. You are almost as worse as these guys tbh if you think like that, there is absolutely zero reason anyone should be allowed to speak like that to anyone and reacting like this will always just encourage more toxic behaviours.

    Why do i have to be punished if im getting attacked like this? Why do i have to go and listen to bullshit, manually mute every piece of shit i encounter while they keep spitting bullshit? These shits need to be punished, not me, easy as that.
    Do you have eyes? People in this very thread have told you why you need to do it. Again: because you are the one who gets offended. If you react like it doesn't bother you at all, they will stop, because they're not getting attention. That's what they want - they want you to get upset and run crying to Mommy.

    And again, I agree that they should grow up and act better. But that's their problem. You have the tools to deal with your frustration. Use them and move on with your life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    And this solves what exactly?

    The community isn't gonna be any less toxic just because i personally cant see it.
    Turning off my chat gives them an echo chamber to fester in and it locks me out of competitive play.

    Nvm that the report system is absolute garbage.

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    Nope, it doesn't.
    People with your mindset are just mad that you cant actively harass anyone anymore without being called out on it.
    No. You do NOT get to blame other people for your inability to deal with life. You do not get to stand on your ivory tower and cast the blame on the horrible indigents below.

    You're just as bad as the people you're mad at. They think they're right to be a jerk to people, and you think you're right to blame everyone but yourself for your failing. I'm sorry people disagree with you, sunshine, but that's life.

    And no, it doesn't make the community better. But that's not something you can control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    report them to the police for harassment or for insulting... both are crimes in sweden...
    That's... Pretty sad. Really sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    Lotta white boys in here who've never been discriminated against acting like discrimination isn't a big deal. If every time you opened your mouth in game you were either insulted or flirted with by lonely nerds, you probably wouldn't think it's so funny.

    Sexist and racist people should be punished for bad behavior and if they continue, they should be banned. These two forms of discrimination are rampant in gaming because gaming companies don't do shit about it.
    You think I've never been discriminated against? Try again. I'm fat. People think I'm disgusting because I'm overweight. People look at me like I'm lazy, and weak, and slow. My boss has even made cracks about me when he didn't think I could hear. I've been discriminated against for longer than you've been alive, and I've learned how to deal with it. You haven't, and until you do, there's no point in dealing with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    OP I would first tell you to ignore the assholes in this thread. I won't name names, but you know who you are.

    Secondly, unfortunately there's no simple fix for this issue. What you're going to have to do is the same tired
    method that everyone else does whenever someone acts like a belligerent fuckhead :

    Mute & block them, followed by sending a report. It may not feel like it accomplishes anything, but you will
    at some point down the road get a message the next time you start Overwatch that says a player that you
    reported (without saying who) was dealt with.

    It's not much, but it's at least something.
    If she won't do it in the game, what makes you think she'll do it here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    If you think that what I said even comes close to actual racism and discrimination then you're proving my point exactly.
    You made a sweeping negative generalization about a group of people based upon their race. That is the very definition of racism.

    You then made a statement about how to deal with that racial group in a way that you think is fair and right, even though other racial groups do the same thing and exhibit the same behaviors. That is the very definition of discrimination.

    There's this wonderful book called a dictionary. You might want to crack it open to look up the terms you're going to use in your argument before you use them. There are more words than "feminist" in there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    If you guys really think that saying that white men are typically the ones who are dismissive of the issues that women and people of color face is racist, then you really don't have any clue what racism actually feels like or how it impacts the lives of those who experience it. Which, like I said, proves my point.

    That's like saying someone's racist for saying that white people owned slaves. It's not racist to state a fact. If you wish to prove me wrong then by all means go ahead and verify your race. I'm still entirely confident that the majority of people in this thread saying to "suck it up and get over it" are white men. Why? Because white men don't face discrimination due to their race and don't experience the same types of sexism as women. Therefore, they don't understand it, dismiss it, and tell people who do have different lived experiences to just "get over it."

    Also obviously don't feed the trolls. I'm not saying you should get upset when someone says some dumb shit to you online, but that doesn't mean you can't advocate for that harassment to stop.
    "White men don't face discrimination"?

    Are you that freaking naïve?

    "White men don't experience the same types of sexism as women"?

    Really?

    You've got your head so far in the sand people in Australia can see it.
    Still calling them out, one infraction at a time.

  10. #250
    The concept of trash talk is so foreign to many it's just not funny anymore. I imagine many here would've run from the internet cafe I frequented during my CoD days at what we said to each other back then. The girls got it especially bad both in the taking and the giving.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  11. #251
    Weeb Queen Video Games's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    What would you call the dismissal of harassment in this thread then? Many posters have said something to the effect of "This is how things are, suck it up." Rather than admonish the harassers they put the onus on the victims to "get over it."

    Please read a history book. Certain groups of people have suffered far more intensely and frequently because of who they are. Are you saying that slaves or holocaust victims aren't deserving of greater sympathy and required more urgent action to be taken in their defense? Because they were put in those situations precisely because of who they were.

    Everyone suffers, but some people suffer more than others, often because of things they have no control over. That has always been true. I'd like to dream of a world where we stop such primitive harassment. Perhaps it's idealistic, but it's better than being apathetic.
    Or, women could be learn to be better at games and stop perpetuating the stereotype :>

  12. #252
    Lol overwatch is a dead game. Theres no one left to "purge".

  13. #253
    Sugarcube , i know for a fact that You only showed a (Response) and not how this got started , i'm 100% sure you started provoking them , and this is the response you got in return , furthermore you are toxic and hell sugarcube
    you only show 1 side of the story, that's toxic femininity, you deserve all those negative comments they threw at you , Full story pls or stop whining

  14. #254
    while we are at it, let's purge society of feminists. All these groups thrive on division and segregation.. creating more barriers that don't celebrate our differences but rather negate them to enforce their narrowminded views and further segregate us till we are all hating each other.

    Ban them all I say.

  15. #255
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prothynyas View Post
    Sugarcube , i know for a fact that You only showed a (Response) and not how this got started , i'm 100% sure you started provoking them , and this is the response you got in return , furthermore you are toxic and hell sugarcube
    you only show 1 side of the story, that's toxic femininity, you deserve all those negative comments they threw at you , Full story pls or stop whining
    lol... i said hello on voice chat when we got into the game and he said that... i guess saying hello is provoking if you're not a man according to you...

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    What would you call the dismissal of harassment in this thread then? Many posters have said something to the effect of "This is how things are, suck it up." Rather than admonish the harassers they put the onus on the victims to "get over it."

    Please read a history book. Certain groups of people have suffered far more intensely and frequently because of who they are. Are you saying that slaves or holocaust victims aren't deserving of greater sympathy and required more urgent action to be taken in their defense? Because they were put in those situations precisely because of who they were.

    Everyone suffers, but some people suffer more than others, often because of things they have no control over. That has always been true. I'd like to dream of a world where we stop such primitive harassment. Perhaps it's idealistic, but it's better than being apathetic.
    Anybody who equates the holocaust victims to some woman getting butthurt because a couple of jerks said stupid things on a computer game is, IMO, incapable of being taken seriously. Those people couldn't put anyone on ignore or stop playing. They were tortured and executed for who they were. The OP is just whining because she doesn't have anything better to do on the weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    lol... i said hello on voice chat when we got into the game and he said that... i guess saying hello is provoking if you're not a man according to you...
    So you say. We have no proof that that's actually what happened.

    And no, saying hello is not provoking, no matter who you are. We've already said we disapprove of the behavior. But the fact that you're still in here whining about it shows where the problem really lies. Do you think those players are sitting around, a week later (or however long it's been), thinking about some random encounter with a woman in a game? Do you really think that? Of course not. They've moved on. You have not. That's your problem, not ours, and not Blizzard's.
    Still calling them out, one infraction at a time.

  17. #257
    look i play ring of elysium on the side were the girl gamers even start provoking guys themselves because they wanna have fun ( just fun ) and i have no problem with an off comment like what do you do in the garage all day , and the first time i heard that i was like ... lol what did i do, whats goin on? they told me that , that was normal and that i should join in if i felt like it , so this is the norm over there on that game .
    and 2 if you only said hi then here's some insight to help you out , 1 did they have a bad day ? 2 are they teens in puberty ? 3 did they have some women in their lives making them feel like shit ? 4 do they have some pent up anger that you noticed in their voices ? 5 was it a warm day and where they in the mood to talk ? 6 some guys like to show off their bravado by acting like dicks to make others laugh because thats all that got , was it like that in this case ? 7 did it had anything to do with your voice ? you having a good day or bad ? , and yeh some guys insult you to provoke a reaction because hurting your feelings or insulting you in a way makes you angry and you will get fixated on that guy its a reverse flirt ( technically ) because in his mind he already got you as his girlfriend and treats it like friendly banter which a girlfriend can take , but since yr not its just a plain insult out of nowhere , thats the best i can give ya and i would just ignore it or think of 1 or 2 Comebacks like i mentioned before , what do you do in the garage all day ? or just give them the reply ( i have sex in the kitchen what else you do in there ? ) lol just let em know who's boss and leave it there , and if they are annoying just mute them , i hope this bit of advice will help you

  18. #258
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    nice... 2 people in the same game screaming on voice chat about how i should suck their dick and telling me to go mercy and then i leave voice because of it... and then they type in the chat after that...


  19. #259
    While I sympathize with you, and I wish there was more that could be done... this isnt up to blizzard or any other game dev.
    They cant change the minds of idiots.

    They can try to ban everyone who says shit, but if its over voice chat there isnt any proof so they cant do anything.

    All you can do is try to change the world.. unfortunately not even blizzard can do that.

    Im sorry people suck ass. I hope you can find a way to ignore them and enjoy the game in spite of them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuraijake View Post
    women aren't allowed to be held accountable for anything
    You're both morons. Women arent perfect, but theres 10 of them playing this game. Gimme one example of a group of women saying something that is somehow insulting to men playing overwatch.

    Goddamn this forum is so fucking cringe. Fucking neck beard incels.

  20. #260
    I dont experience alot of trash talking anymore in OW. It happens now and again, but its more complaining if someone performs bad.

    Personally I dont care about it. I report, leave VC, ignore useless chatter in chat and go on about my business. Often enough if one starts ranting and no one replies to it, it dies off quickly. Like in tango, it takes two to get going. If one player goes off in VC or chat and no one really replies, it fades off.

    It sucks when people are being toxic douchebags, the best we can do is be nice and communicate in a positive manner. The toxic ppl can be ignored and reported.

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