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  1. #1

    Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

    Sorry if this is discussed anywhere else, could not find any Thread related to this.
    Also Sorry for my English, it´s not my 1st Language

    So I thought about my discussion following "New World" and the monetising System they want to add, by selling boosts and other convenient Items in addition to cosmetic Stuff. Most people claimed this would be p2w and I have to think about WoW in it´s current state and thinks you could buy by real Life Money.

    You can buy all these Mounts and other shiny stuff from the Ingame store, and that´s total OK for me, because you don´t push your Player power with these items.
    BUT, you can buy Character boosts. This is a bit tricky for me, because you buy some sort of Player power, but it doesn´t affect the Endgame, it´s just a Time Safe for these people, but it´s definitely something which is discussable.
    But the most annoying thing is definitely the WoW Token itself. You can buy WoW Gold with real Money and can use it to buy BoE Items, which is definitely an increase in Player Power, and so some kind of Pay to Win. And you can buy boosts for M+, Raids, PvP with these Gold. This is not only an increase in Player Power, it´s the pure definition for Pay to win! "You want this? Just pay me X Gold and you get it."

    I think WoW is going a dramatic way towards p2w, and this is not only Blizzards fault.
    Blizz did the Mistake in the first, to make it possible by adding the Token, just because they wanted to address illegal gold selling.
    The Only thing I can imagine at this point to address this, is to forbid boosts for Gold and remove boe items (in Raid quality) from the Game.

    What do you guys think? Is WoW really pay to win nowadays or am I just over interpreting something in this?

    Thanks for Reading

  2. #2
    Yes, it is.
    1) You can use $$$ to buy a token which is equal to WOW gold.
    2) WOW gold can buy you: BOE gear and boosts (more gear).
    You can basically use $$$ to buy raid achieves (AOTC, KSM) and gear now.
    Blizz does nothing to stop the boosting because it drives token sales (goto line 1)

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Viikkis's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm nitpicking here but WoW token and boost are more like pay to advance. Skip playtime but you don't really "win" the game. If you had a token in store which could be used to let's say insta kill 1 raid boss per raid THAT would be pay to WIN. Just an example.

    But it is really about what is winning in WoW anyways?

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    No it isn't pay to win.

    At most it is pay to catch up. In absolutely NO way is buying a boost putting you ahead of everyone else that doesn't which is the definitive requirement for it being a true pay to win game. In buying a boost, you are REQUIRED to use other people who can actually traverse the content. The only way buying a boost or a token would be pay to win is if nobody else is required to get you the gear.

    Pay to win is Neverwinter, where buying gear is not only completely possible but allows you to absolutely outgear everyone that doesn't pay.
    Speciation Is Gradual

  5. #5
    More like an undercover P2W. Since you can buy gold with real money via tokens you can buy boosts for raid achievements, those ultra expensive BoEs at the start of each tier and probably other stuff from AH/BMAH. I woudln't call P2W since the things you can buy with that gold are pretty limited.

    I'm fine with the boosts. I don't buy those, but I them see more like a QoL so I can understand why someone would buy them.

  6. #6
    The moment you can purchase your way to any type of power advantage, it's Pay 2 Win, because you are able to use your money to get closer to victory.

  7. #7
    Yes its pay 2 win, not directly by the cash shop, but you can sink your money in the game and use the gold to pay.. well pretty much for everything

  8. #8
    no, it's not P2W... you could always buy gold for boost etc, so if that's the measure every mmo out there is P2W.
    Member: Shadow Lands Alpha Club, Member since 4/9/2020

  9. #9
    You can pay 2 skip. I don't think there is much to win though... i think pay 2 win stuff is a problem if it sour the integrity of the player experience. That's ofc up to each and everyone but for WoW, being able to skip some tedious shit like leveling, I don't see it was a p2w. Nor do I see boosting as it either... except maybe in pvp. However, considering that boosted people usually just lose when not being boosted anymore I don't see it as a problem either.

    If they could buy gear that was way more powerful and made it a cakewalk to beat better players, sure...
    Games that have exclusive gear, which is way better than what you can get normally, through a store would be p2w for example.

    Problem with counting boosting and such as p2w though is that every game is p2w. You can always pay other players to help you and it happens in almost all games.

  10. #10
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    White knights will soon chime in with "you don't win anything by buying tokens", but that's only if you assume that you can't "win" (in a traditional sense) in an MMO. But by that logic, nothing could ever possibly be P2W, not even selling full mythic sets in the store, since you don't win anything by buying a full mythic set

    But if we count skipping tedious grinds and/or having instant access to the best gear in the game, as well as the most prestigious titles in the current season as "winning", then WoW is definitely P2W, even if not as blatantly as other games.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    White knights will soon chime in with "you don't win anything by buying tokens",
    And Black Knights are already chiming in with "yes, it's totally pay to win even though GENUINE pay to win games explicitly make payment systems that are an absolute advantage over everyone that doesn't pay"

    Anyone saying WoW is P2W does not understand the definition of P2W
    Speciation Is Gradual

  12. #12
    This again.

    Yeah if you are a terrible player that thinks reaching 210ilvl when the max is 229 is "win", while never achieving anything and you cant even clear LFR with 10, you consider WoW is P2W.

    Everyone else with a positive IQ value, knows there isnt anything to win in WoW.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    And Black Knights are already chiming in with "yes, it's totally pay to win even though GENUINE pay to win games explicitly make payment systems that are an absolute advantage over everyone that doesn't pay"

    Anyone saying WoW is P2W does not understand the definition of P2W
    or hasn't played EQ2

  14. #14
    Dreadlord reemi's Avatar
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    If you considere "boost" and "service sold by illegal partys", then every games is pay to win.

    You can buy account on ebay, you can pay someone to boost you. And everything in this world is pay to win then... because you can always buy anything with money. There's no limit!

    Even if you own the best player account in Arena, are you going to win? I don't think so.

    BUT, IMO its not P2W... because:
    Pay to win mean it allow players to purchase items or abilities, this is not the case in WoW.
    Last edited by reemi; 2021-06-02 at 11:34 AM.

  15. #15
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    And Black Knights are already chiming in with "yes, it's totally pay to win even though GENUINE pay to win games explicitly make payment systems that are an absolute advantage over everyone that doesn't pay"

    Anyone saying WoW is P2W does not understand the definition of P2W
    There are degrees of P2W you know, as is the case with most things in life. But I wasn't expecting your kind to realise it anyway, so... Go in peace <3
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  16. #16
    Can you get a adventage you cant get without money with it? No? It is not pay to win

  17. #17
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reemi View Post
    If you considere "boost" and "service sold by illegal partys", then every games is pay to win.

    You can buy account on ebay, you can pay someone to boost you.
    Yeah, and for quite a while it was considered cheating, and it was a bannable offense in your second example.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  18. #18
    depends. there are several definitions of Pay 2 Win.

    if you mean:
    using real money to gain ANY kind of advantage, regardless of its availability from other sources? - Yes. to note here is that the only P2W-part of this is $->gold. anything you get from that gold can be bought with gold earned in-game. if paying gold for advantage is considered P2W, then everything in the game is P2W.

    using real money to gain an advantage that is difficult to obtain from other sources - depends on your skill level. if you are good enough and have the time to clear mythic, there is nothing a carry can buy that you could realistically benefit from.

    using real money to gain an advantage that is IMPOSSIBLE to obtain by other means - No. gold can be made by in-game means, and anything gold can buy is part of either the game itself or player-made economy.

    next question is: what do you consider "winning"?
    for me, WoW is about overcoming a challenge with a group of people i like to play with.
    in MoP i raided heroic (later renamed mythic) with people who could do mythic, and it was fun.
    this time, i play with people who are happy to clear normal and maybe half of the heroic bosses, and it is still fun for me.
    both of these are situation where my "winning" is not affected by anything i could get from real money.

    another thing to argue is: is it P2W if the option exists at all, or does it have to be an option that can be easier/faster than in-game alternatives?
    to buy a token, you need to have real money to spare. a lot of people can make the amount of gold a token sells for with less effort than working for the money it would cost to buy a token.

    and i do not consider RMT or anything that goes beyond the options provided by blizzard, because that would be a whole other discussion.
    The above mentioned remarks, ideas and notions are simply my thought on this topic. I do not wish to aggravate, denounce or criticize anyone who, for whatever reason, may disagree.

  19. #19
    Pay to save time at best. The boosts will always be there and you can earn gold in-game, simply by farming.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    There are degrees of P2W you know, as is the case with most things in life. But I wasn't expecting your kind to realise it anyway, so... Go in peace <3
    Start a new WoW server without level boosts. Everyone is level 1, it's a fresh start, there are no items, nobody has any gear.

    Now, explain to me, EXACTLY how and what you can do with $50 to be ahead of little Jimmy and his friends that do not have $50 to spend. Now go to Neverwinter Online, or Everquest 2, and do the EXACT same thing and see the difference.

    My "Kind" actually know what the hell they are talking about when concerning genuine Pay to Win, your "Kind" clearly don't have a clue.
    Speciation Is Gradual

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