1. #2021
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    WRONG.

    Many mobile games that are pay to win don't sell or facilitate the selling of actual items of power. The sell or facilitate the sale of currency. Like gold in wow.
    .
    you fucking serious? lolololool i can tell you right now, most mobile games literally sell actual items, and lootboxes that contain items, yes lots also do currency, but most of them do items. and even those that DO do currency, allow you to buy items DIRECTLY wiht the currency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitally_Atomic View Post
    It's legitimately worrying how many people don't see WoW as pay to win as it currently stands...
    because by the logic we have, its always been pay to win.

    a rich person who does not have to work to survive can easily afford to play all day every day.
    a rich person who has the money to buy multiple computers and accounts can multibox.
    a rich person can buy gold from websites.

  2. #2022
    Yes; It's still Pay-2-Win since the last time we discussed it.

  3. #2023
    having the ability to use real game money to buy gold tokens to use to buy BOE upgrades to get into current content isn't something i would really call pay to win. Pay to win is if you can spend real money, gain a huge advantage and basically buy your way to the top of the leaderboards, buying gear that gets you in the door isn't pay to win, sorry.

  4. #2024
    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    having the ability to use real game money to buy gold tokens to use to buy BOE upgrades to get into current content isn't something i would really call pay to win. Pay to win is if you can spend real money, gain a huge advantage and basically buy your way to the top of the leaderboards, buying gear that gets you in the door isn't pay to win, sorry.
    I agree. People are arguing over semantics about what exactly they are paying for. Pay to win is a term used for one thing: having an advantage over someone who is not able to achieve the same thing without using real life money.

    If you are talking about buying carries or BoEs that ANYONE can get, without using a credit card is not pay to win.

    End of discussion.

  5. #2025
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmittay View Post
    I agree. People are arguing over semantics about what exactly they are paying for. Pay to win is a term used for one thing: having an advantage over someone who is not able to achieve the same thing without using real life money.

    If you are talking about buying carries or BoEs that ANYONE can get, without using a credit card is not pay to win.

    End of discussion.
    Why do you use this definition? It is often added "sometimes not available in game" but it is not the core of the definition at all. Why do you think it is?

    Just a friendly heads up - adding "end of discussion" just shows you REALLY don't want anyone to correct you on this, because I'm guessing it's the only argument you have.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Sites have their own audiences with their own specialized opinion makers.

  6. #2026
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    Yes; It's still Pay-2-Win since the last time we discussed it.
    Except it wasn't then and it isn't now either
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  7. #2027
    Herald of the Titans Lora's Avatar
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    WoW became p2w the second tokens were introduced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uggorthaholy View Post
    Thanks but no thanks, Lora, for making me question everything in existence forever.

  8. #2028
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    having the ability to use real game money to buy gold tokens to use to buy BOE upgrades to get into current content isn't something i would really call pay to win. Pay to win is if you can spend real money, gain a huge advantage and basically buy your way to the top of the leaderboards, buying gear that gets you in the door isn't pay to win, sorry.
    That is the definition of pay to win...you got it right. They just ignore the facts and call it pay to win simply for the fact they want another excuse to hate on Blizzard
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  9. #2029
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    That is the definition of pay to win...you got it right. They just ignore the facts and call it pay to win simply for the fact they want another excuse to hate on Blizzard
    So just to be clear - a game where you buy "gems" and those gems can be used to purchase endgame bis sets - that's not p2w?
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Sites have their own audiences with their own specialized opinion makers.

  10. #2030
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    So just to be clear - a game where you buy "gems" and those gems can be used to purchase endgame bis sets - that's not p2w?
    It's not pay to win...it's pay to catch up

    Pay to win would be if said sets were only obtainable by spending money
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  11. #2031
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    It's not pay to win...it's pay to catch up

    Pay to win would be if said sets were only obtainable by spending money
    Where did you get that definition from? That is certainly an example of p2w, and the most egregious example, but very uncommon.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Sites have their own audiences with their own specialized opinion makers.

  12. #2032
    Stood in the Fire
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    If you pay the right boosters you can be on top of the PVE and PVPers lists so in one way it is...

  13. #2033
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Except it wasn't then and it isn't now either
    Factually false.

    You are able to directly purchase power through the in-game store.

    Was the situation back when this thread popped up and it's still the situation now. Stop lying and one day you might have a better game.

  14. #2034
    So, I wanna check something here... Are the top end raiders able to "p2w" with their dollarydoos? Because, so far, all I'm seeing are people that aren't "winning" getting the benefit of "paying to win" off the back of the people that "won".

  15. #2035
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Why do you use this definition? It is often added "sometimes not available in game" but it is not the core of the definition at all. Why do you think it is?

    Just a friendly heads up - adding "end of discussion" just shows you REALLY don't want anyone to correct you on this, because I'm guessing it's the only argument you have.
    Because all these bastardised versions of the meaning are wrong. Can you only buy items using real life currency that puts you above players who don't buy it?

    If the answer is no, then it isn't.

    In WoW, I'd say it's pay for convenience.
    Last edited by Schmittay; 2021-09-27 at 03:48 AM.

  16. #2036
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmittay View Post
    Because all these bastardised versions of the meaning are wrong. Can you only buy items using real life currency that puts you above players who don't buy it?

    If the answer is no, then it isn't.
    Bastardized? So all the definitions online that dont agree with what you say are wrong, and your personal, and vastly different definition is the right one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    So, I wanna check something here... Are the top end raiders able to "p2w" with their dollarydoos? Because, so far, all I'm seeing are people that aren't "winning" getting the benefit of "paying to win" off the back of the people that "won".
    For the 400th time, the term "pay to win" does not require "winning", but rather gaining an advantage.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Sites have their own audiences with their own specialized opinion makers.

  17. #2037
    Quote Originally Posted by Lora View Post
    WoW became p2w the second tokens were introduced.
    No. It has either been always P2W or never P2W, token didnt change anything. Depending on your definition.
    Middle man isn't included in either, because why bother even converting to token when you can buy directly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    For the 400th time, the term "pay to win" does not require "winning", but rather gaining an advantage.
    And you still don't gain any advantage because you already lost, by the time anyone would be willing to boost you.
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  18. #2038
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Bastardized? So all the definitions online that dont agree with what you say are wrong, and your personal, and vastly different definition is the right one?

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    For the 400th time, the term "pay to win" does not require "winning", but rather gaining an advantage.
    What advantage? The same gear that others already have to have for you to get yours? The same gear that the people carrying can't get through the same method because there's no one to do it for them?

    Because as far as I can tell, the people paying have 0 advantage over the people boosting them.

  19. #2039
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post

    And you still don't gain any advantage because you already lost, by the time anyone would be willing to boost you.
    No one said gain an advantage over "everyone" - did you think thats what it means?

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    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    What advantage? The same gear that others already have to have for you to get yours? The same gear that the people carrying can't get through the same method because there's no one to do it for them?
    Again, read above - nothing and noone said you gain an advantage over EVERYONE.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Sites have their own audiences with their own specialized opinion makers.

  20. #2040
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    No one said gain an advantage over "everyone" - did you think thats what it means?
    If you change that word in your definition to 'anyone' then every single game in entire history of humankind would become P2W.
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