Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[Relapses]

Everything that offers the, eh ehm lemme read, "[...] ability to trade real world capital for virtual player power, yes, [...] is P2W.".

And how do you get on the internet to play your game? Ah right, cable. And how do you pay your cable bill? Ah right, real world capital. If only there were a way to get real world capital out of the affairs of people just seeking to play video games. Video game socialism? Wait, we did that didn't we? I think they called it GameFly.

[Darkeon]

And how do you get on the internet to play your game? Ah right, cable. And how do you pay your cable bill? Ah right, real world capital. If only there were a way to get real world capital out of the affairs of people just seeking to play video games. Video game socialism? Wait, we did that didn't we? I think they called it GameFly.

You can try to weasel your way out of your admitance, but let's stick to comparing video-games with video-games and keep in topic, ya?~

[Relapses]

You can try to weasel your way out of your admitance, but let's stick to comparing video-games with video-games and keep in topic, ya?~

Sorry for applying the same extremist mentality people use to criticize WoW for being P2W to instead criticize people who only want to apply the label to WoW because of the negative connotations it has.

[Dalinos]

Sorry for applying the same extremist mentality people use to criticize WoW for being P2W to instead criticize people who only want to apply the label to WoW because of the negative connotations it has.

Like I said before, if this was the late 90's, you'd have a point.

Buying a boost is not some obscure activity like it was in the days of OG Classic and OG TBC. The first boosts I ever did was selling Amani War Bears in OG TBC. You had to REALLY go out of your way to find out that my guild, and my group, were willing to 9-man ZA and sell the 100% droprate bear mount to a buyer. We weren't advertising in Trade chat, like people do today.

Just to get this straight, I hope you realise your WoW subscription pays for 1 thing, and 1 thing only. Not ownership if the account. Not ownership of the characters. Not ownership of the stuff in your characters bags. None of that. Your WoW subscription simply gives you access to the games' servers. If you have a sub running, you can log in. If you don't, you cannot.

Your real world "analogies" (which they're not) break down when you realise every single living organism on this planet is a consumer. The moment you are born, and the umbilical cord is cut, you start consuming the air around you, via your throat and lungs. By your definition, EVERYTHING in this world is P2W, since humanity changed to a money system and left bartering behind some thousands of years ago.What we are defining here is VERY, VERY precise.

Out-of-game resources being used to gain in-game power. And before you mention it, no, I won't consider "Time" as a resource, because you're sitting down to play a video-game - the GOAL is to WASTE TIME. So no, "Time" is not part of out-of-game resources.

[Relapses]

im trying very hard not to be insulting here, but you seem to be kind of special. If you bought gold then you are at "b" right? hence you can directly bypass anything and everything in the game right? "B>C" seems pretty direct...

my lord man I feel like Im explaining this over and over again to my year old daughter lol

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it doesnt matter what you buy with it. Anything you bought with that gold is an in-game advantage. And only you and the other guy are ''attacking'' my position dont fault yourself into thinking that the majority feel like you. Most people understand well enough that wow is basically p2w these days and has been for a while.

Yeah, leave it to the truly enlightened like you to have pointlessly cynical negative opinions about WoW. That's super uncommon these days!

[rhorle]

im trying very hard not to be insulting here, but you seem to be kind of special. If you bought gold then you are at "b" right? hence you can directly bypass anything and everything in the game right? "B>C" seems pretty direct...

So is real money exchanged from B>C? Direct would be if A gets you C. Indirect is when A has to first get you B and then you get C. Focus less on the insults and more on understanding your own example.

[Relapses]

Iam not being negative at all. You take anything said against wow very personally I have noticed. Relax man.

I've been around here enough to know how the conversations go. "WoW is P2W" goes hand-in-hand with "Blizzard is greedy," which then leads into "if Blizzard cared, they'd remove the token and then mysteriously all boosting would vanish overnight." I guess it's my defense mechanism against having to have somebody tell me for the 4,834th time today that WoW sucks and {insert game here} does it better. Is it really that weird to expect WoW discussion on a WoW forum?

[Darkeon]

Sorry for applying the same extremist mentality people use to criticize WoW for being P2W to instead criticize people who only want to apply the label to WoW because of the negative connotations it has.

Nothing wrong with it being P2W. It's making bucks, people clearly don't care as much about it nowadays than they did in, say, the 90s or 00s, where any sight of P2W was a death sentence.

But we live in a world where Dead Space 3 is a thing. MMORPGs are released with "We are keeping the store cosmetic only for now" type of statements and still bring in massive profits. People don't care about "P2W" as much as they once did.

Hell, this thread would have ended a lot earlier if people didn't go "Sure it has P2W elements, but is it really P2W?" and similar type of statements.

[Battlebeard]

What a silly thread. Everything in life is pay to win, whether you like it or not.

Ofc WoW is, with enough money you can get enough gold to get anything in game. There is nothing you can't buy with enough gold.

You just gotta set your own standard, and find likeminded people. If you wanna raid normally, just do it, stop caring if others buy their way to success, gaming shouldn't be "look what I got", just ignore everyone else and play for fun and for YOUR goals.

For years people are obsessed what others have and if it's fiar if they have it or not. Who cares... if you care, you clearly don't have enough real problems in your life.

[Lochton]

What a silly thread. Everything in life is pay to win, whether you like it or not.

Ofc WoW is, with enough money you can get enough gold to get anything in game. There is nothing you can't buy with enough gold.

You just gotta set your own standard, and find likeminded people. If you wanna raid normally, just do it, stop caring if others buy their way to success, gaming shouldn't be "look what I got", just ignore everyone else and play for fun and for YOUR goals.

For years people are obsessed what others have and if it's fiar if they have it or not. Who cares... if you care, you clearly don't have enough real problems in your life.

Yeah.. You might be right. At the look of this, and people's views, WoW's been P2W since 2006 legally, and there is no active or recently dead MMORPG that isn't P2W.

We're just arguing in stages, steps, amounts, and how far.

As I've stated before, I enjoy the game for the adventure and content I experience. My only problem is a side effect of a necessary evil, the boosting spam. The rest is just as it is but in the online world, some people are more obsessed with the doings of other people - it is human nature.

[TriHard]

WoW is pay to win regardless of what anyone has to say.
It is a well known fact, it's not an opinion.

It is so bad in fact that it has become one of the most P2W MMOs out there.

[Elbob]

WoW is pay to win regardless of what anyone has to say.
It is a well known fact, it's not an opinion.

It is so bad in fact that it has become one of the most P2W MMOs out there.

Kind of a weird fact counting I can't get any power from the store

[Lochton]

WoW is pay to win regardless of what anyone has to say.
It is a well known fact, it's not an opinion.

It is so bad in fact that it has become one of the most P2W MMOs out there.

WoW is barely P2W, and the most direct P2W is the catch-up mechanic, as the token is only considered due to "extra steps" even though Pay2Win is when you get the advantage from the game maker, and not another player but as it makes the game P2W, then why are we talking about the token being an issue when WoW has been P2W by the rules since 2006?

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Kind of a weird fact counting I can't get any power from the store

Naw, the P2W has been stretched from being advantages from the game maker to being game-time bought from the game maker with real money that you can trade with other players for gold, as long as it is within the ToS. At this stage, if I gift someone the next expansion, and they lend me, or give me gold in the future as gratitude, one could consider that P2W too.

[Raelbo]

Serious question for @Raelbo

would you consider it pay to win if blizzard puts up gear, that you can aquire through playing the game normally, for gold?

No. You clearly haven't been paying attention. The critical flaw in the "wow is p2w because gold can be used to 'win'" argument is that it fails to consider the fact the token works by sourcing the gold from other players. What the gold is eventually used for is entirely irrelevant.

If Blizzard started gold directly to players for cash, then that would be p2w. If Blizzard started selling current tier gear to players for cash, then that would be p2w.

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im trying very hard not to be insulting here, but you seem to be kind of special.

Delusions of grandeur here....

If you bought gold then you are at "b" right? hence you can directly bypass anything and everything in the game right? "B>C" seems pretty direct...

Except that you are not bypassing anything. You are getting other players to bypass it for you. That is not p2w. If WoW was a p2w game you wouldn't need other players to acquire that gold for you. You wouldn't need other players to carry you through content.

Furthermore, in an actual p2w game, those other players (the ones carrying your ass) would not even be able to do that content without themselves having to pay.

[Raelbo]

Kinda rich coming from you LOL

Oh shut up already. You came into this debate full of condescension and devoid of any kind of argument. At least I have made the effort to substantiate my viewpoint. You're entitled to disagree, but unless you can actually put together an actual argument (as opposed to snide 1 liners) you have not earned the right to pretend your opinion is worth anything, let alone some epitome of genius.

[Daymanmb]

And how do you get on the internet to play your game? Ah right, cable. And how do you pay your cable bill? Ah right, real world capital. If only there were a way to get real world capital out of the affairs of people just seeking to play video games. Video game socialism? Wait, we did that didn't we? I think they called it GameFly.

What a ridiculous argument.. Paying for internet AND game time AND a computer to play on, is the same barrier of entry FOR EVERYONE.. How infantile..

[saeadeb]

I've been around here enough to know how the conversations go. "WoW is P2W" goes hand-in-hand with "Blizzard is greedy," which then leads into "if Blizzard cared, they'd remove the token and then mysteriously all boosting would vanish overnight." I guess it's my defense mechanism against having to have somebody tell me for the 4,834th time today that WoW sucks and {insert game here} does it better. Is it really that weird to expect WoW discussion on a WoW forum?

Imagine whiteknighting a pay to buy pay to subscribe pay to win videogame all day long every day.

[Relapses]

What a ridiculous argument.. Paying for internet AND game time AND a computer to play on, is the same barrier of entry FOR EVERYONE.. How infantile..

No shit it's infantile, that's the point. Just like all the back asswards arguments people make to convince themselves that the game is implicitly P2W so they can continue whatever dumb fucking anti-Blizzard crusade they're on.

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Imagine whiteknighting a pay to buy pay to subscribe pay to win videogame all day long every day.

I'm sorry, did you have a point?

[Daymanmb]

No shit it's infantile, that's the point. Just like all the back asswards arguments people make to convince themselves that the game is implicitly P2W so they can continue whatever dumb fucking anti-Blizzard crusade they're on.

No, but like your point is so stupid, it doesnt even fit as an analogy... does everyone have to pay for a boost/token to play WoW? No? Huh, so its not like paying for the internet at all, is it?

[Relapses]

No, but like your point is so stupid, it doesnt even fit as an analogy... does everyone have to pay for a boost/token to play WoW? No? Huh, so its not like paying for the internet at all, is it?

I'd encourage you to re-read my reply. Focus in on the part where I said that was intentional.