Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[Darkeon]

Did you seriously think you "won" by having a heroic kill, especially a purchased one? That's like asking a friend to beat Super Mario for you and then bragging to others for having completing it. You didn't win anything, i'd say.

What is "Winning" in a MMORPG to you?

[Dhrizzle]

I have the achiev, which isn't much. My wow rotten brain was too far gone to realize that aotc denny didn't award a mount. I wouldn't have wasted 60k gold if I've checked lmao.
Got the weapon from it tho, I adquired character power for 60k gold, gold that can be adquired thanks to a cash shop item called WoW Token. That's the very definition of Pay To Win, isn't it? Get an advantage through real money. There are more expensive runs that funnel the drop to you.
Not that I'm saying it is a bad thing, by the way. If the literal president of the company sells boosts, who am I to judge?

60k gold is a tiny amount though, is it really p2w if most players could have that amount of gold kicking around just from playing through the content?

[panda040]

Amazes me that this thread is still ongoing, it's pretty clear the game is pay to win, if you view achieves,player power and progression as elements of winning.

Pretty sure the only people arguing against it are coping because they have partaken in the play to win aspects

[Garretdejiko]

60k gold is a tiny amount though, is it really p2w if most players could have that amount of gold kicking around just from playing through the content?

Is it a matter of price then? The fact that it was cheap only indicates high supply.

[Raelbo]

Bought H Denatrius kill so I could quit earlier. So yes, it is p2w

That's not what p2w is at all though.

p2w is about the game granting you an advantage that is not generally available to those not paying that helps you achieve some winning objective.

While you achieved the winning objective by paying money it fails the p2w definition on a number of other aspects.
- The advantage you obtained (some gold) was not given to you by the game, it was traded from another player
- Being able to obtain said amounts of gold is easily available to anyone
- Being able to defeat Denathrius isn't even something that paying money helped you to do. Other players did it for you.

- - - Updated - - -

Is it a matter of price then? The fact that it was cheap only indicates high supply.

Which is also indicative of the difficulty of beating the content without paying, completely annihilating your claim that it is p2w.

- - - Updated - - -

Amazes me that this thread is still ongoing, it's pretty clear the game is pay to win, if you view achieves,player power and progression as elements of winning.

Irrelevant. Unless you have to pay to get these things, it is, by definition, not p2w

Pretty sure the only people arguing against it are coping because they have partaken in the play to win aspects

No. What is pretty clear is that the people arguing that WoW is p2w have no clue about what p2w means in gaming terms.

- - - Updated - - -

That's the very definition of Pay To Win, isn't it? Get an advantage through real money.

Nope. Pay to Win means that you have to spend real money to gain that advantage.

[Raelbo]

Like I said, triggered. Your perceived slights have only shown how emotionally invested in my posts you are for some strange reason. If you don't like the way I have discussions feel free to ignore/mute me. But come off it with the white knight stuff it's just silly be a grown up. We aren't even talking about the topic at-hand and all of this is off topic, which is why I stopped responding to you before.

If you actually have anything to say about the topic at hand or the things I've discussed, go for it, but put your big boy pants on before you do just in case I reply, eh

Lol. you just proved my point.

PS, since you are crying about how "innocent" you are, let me remind you of your grand entry into this discussion:

Of course it's p2w there's a lot of copium being passed around in this thread..

Finding a more arrogant, condescending or lazy post is difficult on the forum. That says a lot.

[Garretdejiko]

That's not what p2w is at all though.

p2w is about the game granting you an advantage that is not generally available to those not paying that helps you achieve some winning objective.

While you achieved the winning objective by paying money it fails the p2w definition on a number of other aspects.
- The advantage you obtained (some gold) was not given to you by the game, it was traded from another player

The advantage I've obtained was ilvl and an achievement, both things are basic requirements to get invited to harder content, which you can buy as well

- Being able to obtain said amounts of gold is easily available to anyone

That assuming point one was right, but it wasn't

- Being able to defeat Denathrius isn't even something that paying money helped you to do. Other players did it for you.

Blantant p2w mechanics in other games aren't something I coded in the game. I pressed the "trade" button and after a few minutes got the achievement and some gear. Which isn't much diferent than buying the achievement and the gear from an NPC.

Which is also indicative of the difficulty of beating the content without paying, completely annihilating your claim that it is p2w.

Difficulty doesn't have anything to do with it, though. If I said Mythic Denny instead of Heroic, would've made it more or less p2w? Doesn't matter either, cause it falls into the same category.

[Raelbo]

The advantage I've obtained was ilvl and an achievement, both things are basic requirements to get invited to harder content, which you can buy as well

No, the advantage you gained was a bit of gold, which was neither given to you by the game nor requires spending money.

That assuming point one was right, but it wasn't

What is "point one"? What are grounds for claiming it wasn't right?

Blantant p2w mechanics in other games aren't something I coded in the game. I pressed the "trade" button and after a few minutes got the achievement and some gear. Which isn't much diferent than buying the achievement and the gear from an NPC.

Still doesn't classify as p2w though, for the reasons stated above. Both the gold and the boost you got came from other players. Both acquiring gold and defeating Denathrius heroic are things that can be reasonably achieved in game without the need to spend money. This is proven by the facts that the gold you bought was acquired by other players who clearly didn't spend money to acquire it, and the people who carried you through Castle Nathria didn't spend money to be able to do so.

Difficulty doesn't have anything to do with it, though. If I said Mythic Denny instead of Heroic, would've made it more or less p2w? Doesn't matter either, cause it falls into the same category.

As I said above, the fact that you're paying other players automatically disqualifies it as being p2w, regardless of difficulty.

A p2w mechanic would see the game granting you an advantage that would help you to defeat the encounter.

- - - Updated - - -

Funny how you got the message I'm claiming any sorts of ''innocence'' or whatever, which is also weird. Innocent of what? This is a messaging board my guy maybe stop being so emotionally invested in it?

My point was: Sticks and stones. Grow up

And yeah there is a lot of copium going around in this thread. Even was linked how world first kill was obtained due to gold investment, yet people are still claiming that you cant buy to win anything you want in this game thanks to Blizz selling gold, thus making the game indirectly p2w. If you don't like that, that's a you problem. If you don't like the way I talk/discuss things, that's also a you problem. Feel free to ignore me if my words hurt your feelings, that's what the function is there for. I say again, all of this is extremely off topic and we aren't here to have a therapy session for you. Last time, bye


On topic: wow is p2w.

And my point is this is a forum. If you want to make a claim, back it up, or shut up. WoW is not p2w, and the fact that you have thus far been unable to supply any kind of argument to support your claim, resorting instead to ad hominem, is very telling.

[Raelbo]

Notice how it's only 2-3 people arguing against the world?

Funny you should say that. The entire basis of my argument is what "the world" has to say about what p2w is. It's just a few folks here who want to disagree with that definition and thus claim that wow is p2w.

[Dhrizzle]

Is it a matter of price then? The fact that it was cheap only indicates high supply.

More the fact that a player could very easily do what you did without spending any real money.

[Garretdejiko]

No, the advantage you gained was a bit of gold, which was neither given to you by the game nor requires spending money.

Is this some new 4D chess strategy where you people think that killing bosses only award gold?
Anyway, call it shortcut, whatever. Game became p2w the moment WoW Token was introduced. It is true, I don't pay directly to the game to get the achievement. Putting a few obstacles between costumer and service doesn't change the core idea. You can twist and turn your own idea of p2w all you want, doesn't change the fact that you can:
-Buy token for real money
-Get gold for said token
-Get gear advantage for said gold.
Yeah, I said a few obstacles, but it's only one. And the gear I obtained thanks to the paid boost, helped me beat Mythic Raid Bosses.

More the fact that a player could very easily do what you did without spending any real money.

I'm currently not subbed, but iirc I have around 500k gold. Let's say I buy a M Sylvannas and I get all the loot. Is Mythic Sylvannas easy for the average player? I don't really know, but I can buy it.

[TheLucky1]

Imagine paying others to play the game you pay monthly for.

People who do that seriously need to get help.

[Sansnom]

Is this some new 4D chess strategy where you people think that killing bosses only award gold?
Anyway, call it shortcut, whatever. Game became p2w the moment WoW Token was introduced. It is true, I don't pay directly to the game to get the achievement. Putting a few obstacles between costumer and service doesn't change the core idea. You can twist and turn your own idea of p2w all you want, doesn't change the fact that you can:
-Buy token for real money
-Get gold for said token
-Get gear advantage for said gold.
Yeah, I said a few obstacles, but it's only one. And the gear I obtained thanks to the paid boost, helped me beat Mythic Raid Bosses.

While token made it more common, people had been able to buy runs before token was a thing. So one would could argue WoW was always p2w. Sure less people may be doing it but p2w is p2w, whether it is one person or one hundred people buying runs.

Is WoW pay 2 win? You can for sure. Was it due to the token? No.

[Tartys]

What do you guys think? Is WoW really pay to win nowadays or am I just over interpreting something in this?

To win what?

[Relapses]

Notice how it's only 2-3 people arguing against the world?

When the only acceptable answer for you is one which is 100% in line with your predisposed line of thinking, yes. It will go on forever. And people will, until the end of time, come into this thread and pretend like they're enlightened sages for using the incorrect definition of P2W to describe what's happening in WoW. This topic should be locked and the moderators should add it to the list of forbidden topics because there's no way anybody from either camp is going to convince themselves the other side is correct.

- - - Updated - - -

That has nothing to do with it. There will always be a 'black market' of selling gold/runs that are explicitly against the TOS. The difference comes when the company itself endorses buying gold is when it becomes officially p2w ala the wow token. "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" is not the motto a company should take in regards to people selling gold/boosts for irl money and maintaining the integrity of the game.

There is a grand canyon-type of difference there and I hope you can see it.

You admitted a few pages back that you thought the game was always P2W so why are you now saying that the game "became P2W ala the WoW token"?

[Garretdejiko]

While token made it more common, people had been able to buy runs before token was a thing. So one would could argue WoW was always p2w. Sure less people may be doing it but p2w is p2w, whether it is one person or one hundred people buying runs.

Is WoW pay 2 win? You can for sure. Was it due to the token? No.

Yeah I see your point. Thing is, token implementation made boost easier, cause it made it not against ToS.
Blizz wasn't the one getting the money, boosters did. Blizz wanted their share, and bam, WoW Token.

[Relapses]

Yeah I see your point. Thing is, token implementation made boost easier, cause it made it not against ToS.
Blizz wasn't the one getting the money, boosters did. Blizz wanted their share, and bam, WoW Token.

Boosts for gold were never against the ToS. The token was introduced to give people with gold stockpiles an option to pay for their subscription with virtual currency. You're incorrectly framing the purpose of the WoW token.

- - - Updated - - -

Did I say that though? Maybe you misunderstood?

You quoted me where I said pretty much exactly that and agreed with the sentiment behind my post.

That's how facts work.

And this is why the topic should be locked.

[panda040]

That's not what p2w is at all though.

p2w is about the game granting you an advantage that is not generally available to those not paying that helps you achieve some winning objective.

While you achieved the winning objective by paying money it fails the p2w definition on a number of other aspects.
- The advantage you obtained (some gold) was not given to you by the game, it was traded from another player
- Being able to obtain said amounts of gold is easily available to anyone
- Being able to defeat Denathrius isn't even something that paying money helped you to do. Other players did it for you.

- - - Updated - - -



Which is also indicative of the difficulty of beating the content without paying, completely annihilating your claim that it is p2w.

- - - Updated - - -



Irrelevant. Unless you have to pay to get these things, it is, by definition, not p2w



No. What is pretty clear is that the people arguing that WoW is p2w have no clue about what p2w means in gaming terms.

- - - Updated - - -



Nope. Pay to Win means that you have to spend real money to gain that advantage.

A game having optional pay to win is still pay to win retard lol. its just opt in pay to win

get a fucking clue

edit: remove the wow token or make it soul bound and it will no longer be pay to win

[Relapses]

A game having optional pay to win is still pay to win retard lol. its just opt in pay to win

get a fucking clue

edit: remove the wow token or make it soul bound and it will no longer be pay to win

Do... do you even know how the token works?

[Garretdejiko]

Boosts for gold were never against the ToS.

I don't see gold writen on that quote. Are you ok?