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  1. #341
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    In terms of strict definitions absolutely. The question is however how many actually do buy tokens to buy raid carries?
    An unknown number. Not everyone who sells the token is out to buy a carry.
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  2. #342
    So Blizzard basically selling time skip for really basic content is not ok ?

    but players selling Ahead of the curve + zillions pve boosts and pve/glad boost is not a problem ? it is more of a problem to me since the chat on most servers has become a permanent commercial


    Blizz boost basic / irrelevant content (that most people have done countless times)

    Players boost ''meaningful content''

    I wonder which is more pay to win...

    It's also amusing to see that if as a player you manage to make enough gold, sell enough boost, using the pay to win aspects of the game, the game becomes free to play
    Last edited by AlbertColvert; 2021-06-03 at 02:06 PM.

  3. #343
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    In terms of strict definitions absolutely. The question is however how many actually do buy tokens to buy raid carries?
    I've bought a couple million in gold via tokens. I have bought zero boosts in any content. Most of it went to the AH to pad my mounts since after I quit playing full time i never got any mounts from the last 3 expansions. Also bought my professions to max for 2 characters via enchanting mats and alchemy mats. I bought the Lightbringer tabard and Sylvannas music box. Couple mounts from the BMAH as well as a couple T3 pieces. Nothing major, like 200K in total?

    The worst I've done is buy 200+ boe's for an alt. I haven't even took that to LFR, just tanked some M+ on it

    Everything I bought went back into the server and players and I can accoutn for pretty much every copper I spent. I have like 180K left. It's just bullshit confirmation bias that people who buy gold, buy boosts.
    Last edited by Malania; 2021-06-03 at 02:09 PM.

  4. #344
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    I've bought a couple million in gold via tokens. I have bought zero boosts in any content. Most of it went to the AH to pad my mounts since after I quit playing full time i never got any mounts from the last 3 expansions. Also bought my professions to max for 2 characters via enchanting mats and alchemy mats. I bought the Lightbringer tabard and Sylvannas music box. Couple mounts from the BMAH as well as a couple T3 pieces. Nothing major, like 200K in total?

    The worst I've done is buy 200+ boe's for an alt. I haven't even took that to LFR, just tanked some M+ on it

    Everything I bought went back into the server and players and I can accoutn for pretty much every copper I spent. I have like 180K left. It's just bullshit confirmation bias that people who buy gold, buy boosts.
    I have sold 20 tokens in my time to get gold, and no time has the gold earned been used for boosts. Some has been sunk into the auction to sate my collection mania, others for collection stuff, some for profession levelling, donating for community competitions, giving new players gold/bags, and others went back into buying a token for game-time.
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  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    I've bought a couple million in gold via tokens. I have bought zero boosts in any content. Most of it went to the AH to pad my mounts since after I quit playing full time i never got any mounts from the last 3 expansions. Also bought my professions to max for 2 characters via enchanting mats and alchemy mats. I bought the Lightbringer tabard and Sylvannas music box. Couple mounts from the BMAH as well as a couple T3 pieces. Nothing major, like 200K in total?

    The worst I've done is buy 200+ boe's for an alt. I haven't even took that to LFR, just tanked some M+ on it

    Everything I bought went back into the server and players and I can accoutn for pretty much every copper I spent. I have like 180K left. It's just bullshit confirmation bias that people who buy gold, buy boosts.
    I think I bought a token to get a donkey mount because I mean come on it's a donkey.

    My point was simply just that while yes you absolutely could by your way to the best gear it is not something many players do. It would be exceedingly expensive because you're also subject to drop rates and whatnot. One week you pay to get a pair of boots but the chest piece drops for you which you already have, gotta pay again next week.

    Not something someone does.

    Which means that WoW is pay-to-win in technical definitions only, not in practice.
    Last edited by LarryFromHumanResources; 2021-06-03 at 02:29 PM.
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  6. #346
    Dreadlord aarro's Avatar
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    Nope.............
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  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    This again. Everyone else with a positive IQ value, knows there isnt anything to win in WoW.
    There also isn't anything to win via pissing matches in MMOC... yet here we are. "P2W is bad"..."WOW isn't P2W ARTARD!"

    Personally, I don't think I'd call it P2W. P2W is buying characters that can't be gained via playing - or abilities that are more powerful than free abilities.

    I WOULD call it Pay 2 Screw the economy... because all the money creates gold which punishes those who aren't paying by making things more expensive than they'd be otherwise. I can buy pots with gold... but when those pots cost 5x more because cash buyers are driving the prices up... shrug.

    Until top guilds start "selling" runs through hard content - and that does happen occasionally... but even then THAT is limited and you'll generally not get TOP tier until right before it becomes obsolete...
    [color=blue]This thread has lived beyond its life expectancy. ... It's also met the forum quota for posters insulting the intelligence of their peers to grasp the age-old upper hand in argumentation, I believe officially coined by Plato: "Ur, like, dumb and that's why I'm right." Zarhym


  8. #348
    Here is a very simple fact. When complexity limit got world first mythic CN back in Dec 23, they had an average ilvl of 220.. That's literally 1 weeks after CN Mythic got opened.. How the hell did they get that? Easy.. They dropped MILLIONS of gold to buy every single mythic/heroic BOE they can find from the auction house. And guess where those gold came from? Hint.. Wowtoken was extremely cheap back then...

  9. #349
    Sorta, but not the kind that gives unfair advantages to players who are willing to pay.

    Example: pay to obtain otherwise unobtainable powerful gear that gives you an advantage over players who refuse to spend money

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertColvert View Post
    but players selling Ahead of the curve + zillions pve boosts and pve/glad boost is not a problem ? it is more of a problem to me since the chat on most servers has become a permanent commercial
    Using in-game currencies to offer services is not "pay to win". If that was the case then any game with the ability to trade is pay to win. Which then dilutes the meaning of the phrase to be irrelevant. Is a level boost technically pay to win? Yes. But in the spirit of the concept it is less so because the boosts are usually to to a lower level then current content. So you don't win anything relevant to others.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  11. #351
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    Which means that WoW is pay-to-win in technical definitions only, not in practice.
    It's not even pay to win by definition, since pay to win means that you pay for a huge advantage over people who don't buy that same thing. Like, if you could buy a level 63 character, that'd be hilariously broken, and pretty much required for anyone seriously playing the game. But no, they don't offer that. They offer you the option to get gold, which is already easily available in game, or a level 50 character, which takes like 25 hours to do if you're slow

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Semihagez View Post
    Here is a very simple fact. When complexity limit got world first mythic CN back in Dec 23, they had an average ilvl of 220.. That's literally 1 weeks after CN Mythic got opened.. How the hell did they get that? Easy.. They dropped MILLIONS of gold to buy every single mythic/heroic BOE they can find from the auction house. And guess where those gold came from? Hint.. Wowtoken was extremely cheap back then...
    So? They also take out loans and have gold making farms with boosts in the "off-season". Buying the token doesn't make it pay to win because you don't buy the win from Blizzard. They can't buy any gear with that gold unless a player first sells them the gear. Does the Token, and gold, make things in the game far more accessible? Yep. But it isn't paying to win since you need some one in-game to offer the gold, BoE's, or other service.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  13. #353
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semihagez View Post
    Here is a very simple fact. When complexity limit got world first mythic CN back in Dec 23, they had an average ilvl of 220.. That's literally 1 weeks after CN Mythic got opened.. How the hell did they get that? Easy.. They dropped MILLIONS of gold to buy every single mythic/heroic BOE they can find from the auction house. And guess where those gold came from? Hint.. Wowtoken was extremely cheap back then...
    Here's a hint:
    It was from boosting communities.


    Wait, no, that wasn't a hint, that was the answer..
    https://www.reddit.com/r/woweconomy/...t_40000_after/
    Here's a thread from last world first race going over it
    And a wowhead post going over it from dazar'alor: https://www.wowhead.com/news/methods...-studio-290137
    Last edited by Temp name; 2021-06-03 at 03:01 PM.

  14. #354
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WernerCD View Post
    There also isn't anything to win via pissing matches in MMOC... yet here we are. "P2W is bad"..."WOW isn't P2W ARTARD!"

    Personally, I don't think I'd call it P2W. P2W is buying characters that can't be gained via playing - or abilities that are more powerful than free abilities.

    I WOULD call it Pay 2 Screw the economy... because all the money creates gold which punishes those who aren't paying by making things more expensive than they'd be otherwise. I can buy pots with gold... but when those pots cost 5x more because cash buyers are driving the prices up... shrug.

    Until top guilds start "selling" runs through hard content - and that does happen occasionally... but even then THAT is limited and you'll generally not get TOP tier until right before it becomes obsolete...
    But the money is not creating gold? You are just getting gold from another player.
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  15. #355
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    Here's a hint:
    It was from boosting communities.


    Wait, no, that wasn't a hint, that was the answer..
    https://www.reddit.com/r/woweconomy/...t_40000_after/
    Here's a thread from last world first race going over it
    And a wowhead post going over it from dazar'alor: https://www.wowhead.com/news/methods...-studio-290137
    yeah sure they are radiant of honesty, i remember way back in tbc/wrath when they also were full of honesty, until literally the seller exposed them (and blizz still didn't ban for that reason, they banned for 'cheating' mechanics)
    No idea about today hardcore raid community but back then unless u literally dedicate ur life 24/7 to wow u had to buy gold to be able to compete on top lvl, a new raid out u must get everything day 1, even a single gem is a must, ironically back then gold had little to no value for 99% of wow players since no mounts to sell or mini pets, gold was for consumables (which are cheap), repairs and done, having 20k is like having 200k, u only need gold for maintenance for most wow players, since gold didn't equal to any real life money
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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  16. #356
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semihagez View Post
    Here is a very simple fact. When complexity limit got world first mythic CN back in Dec 23, they had an average ilvl of 220.. That's literally 1 weeks after CN Mythic got opened.. How the hell did they get that? Easy.. They dropped MILLIONS of gold to buy every single mythic/heroic BOE they can find from the auction house. And guess where those gold came from? Hint.. Wowtoken was extremely cheap back then...
    Not to mention they borrowed a lot of gold too.

    Then again, that method isn't new either.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  17. #357
    Yes, BoE + WoW Token means Warcraft is 100% pay to win, up to and including 'pay to be #1'.

  18. #358
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    But the money is not creating gold? You are just getting gold from another player.
    and he is creating gold from in-game mechanism, gold isn't constant in wow, u can get infinity gold as long there is a chineese gold farming bot herbing druid in necrolords
    so money is getting gold from someone else, but gold itself is being made from anything
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  19. #359
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So? They also take out loans and have gold making farms with boosts in the "off-season". Buying the token doesn't make it pay to win because you don't buy the win from Blizzard. They can't buy any gear with that gold unless a player first sells them the gear. Does the Token, and gold, make things in the game far more accessible? Yep. But it isn't paying to win since you need some one in-game to offer the gold, BoE's, or other service.
    I've tried telling this point and they just twist it by saying, "Blizzard is making it P2W indirectly".
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Yes, BoE + WoW Token means Warcraft is 100% pay to win, up to and including 'pay to be #1'.
    Nope. Because players supply BoE's. If no one lists a BoE for sale then you can't buy anything with gold even if you sourced that gold from a token. If buying a BoE makes the game pay to win then it has always been pay to win since Vanilla.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

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