Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[Temp name]

yeah sure they are radiant of honesty, i remember way back in tbc/wrath when they also were full of honesty, until literally the seller exposed them (and blizz still didn't ban for that reason, they banned for 'cheating' mechanics)
No idea about today hardcore raid community but back then unless u literally dedicate ur life 24/7 to wow u had to buy gold to be able to compete on top lvl, a new raid out u must get everything day 1, even a single gem is a must, ironically back then gold had little to no value for 99% of wow players since no mounts to sell or mini pets, gold was for consumables (which are cheap), repairs and done, having 20k is like having 200k, u only need gold for maintenance for most wow players, since gold didn't equal to any real life money

I mean, why'd they lie about borrowing gold from a boosting community instead of spending irl money on it..? Hell, if they were going to buy 40-100mil worth of tokens, why not just say the truth instead of making up a story about borrowing it, and having the boosting community actually go along with it?

[Drusin]

It can be but it depends on how you define Pay2Win, since everyones definition of p2w isn't the same you're going to wind up with a 20 page thread lol

[M1r4g3]

This is not the definition of p2w and it's not even rational. All Microtransactions are not pay to win.

It is tho, especially in a game which doesn't have a clear-cut end goal that everyone shares, if someone cares more about looks then for them getting cosmetics that they cant get without paying in some form is p2w.

[Relapses]

as soon as you can buy something that another player had to earn / can't earn without spending real money it is instantly pay 2 win.

someone bought 1 level with real money? pay 2 win.

someone bought a mount with real money? pay 2 win.

someone bought a pet with real money? pay 2 win.

Was this post an attempt to define Pay 2 Win with only wrong answers?

[Malania]

It is tho, especially in a game which doesn't have a clear-cut end goal that everyone shares, if someone cares more about looks then for them getting cosmetics that they cant get without paying in some form is p2w.

The game may not have a clear cut end goal, but the term does have a clear cut explanation. It's not buying gear or pets or looks. It's buying an advantage that has no alternative method of achievement.

[TheRevenantHero]

So there is a definition, numerous actually, of what a P2W is. As you stated, it doesn't specifically include what p2w is for an mmo so you trying to make points out of opinions and fucking justify them with your "own" logic is no more relevant in this conversation than anything I fucking said. All you are doing is voicing an opinion and marking off things in our conversation from my point of view, discounting them with your own fucking opinion and then saying I'm wrong.

I have no reason to be obtuse, I have played games of all kinds for decades and have a very good understanding of p2w and how it works but you and I disagree on this point. I will make a point and then I will bow out of OUR conversation as you seem angry already and I feel it will further degrade the topic. You have literally brought no more logic to this conversation than anyone else. Stop saying it's a 100% form of p2w, you clearly stated already there isn't a definition of p2w for mmos, so this is just your uneducated opinion as much as anything.

The points you have tried to make are based on you trying to discount other people's points by thumping your chest and saying "I'm right and your wrong, BECAUSE!" The OPINIONS you added to this conversation are just that, no more factual than anyone else's opinions and you provided the data to discount your own opinions by stating there is no definition to mmo p2w, which I find humorous. Good day sir lol.

You can disagree all you want. You're still wrong and now I know you actually ARE being purposely obtuse. Good to know.

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As soon as Blizzard introduced the ability to buy level boosts, WoW became pay to win without a doubt.

[rhorle]

It is tho, especially in a game which doesn't have a clear-cut end goal that everyone shares, if someone cares more about looks then for them getting cosmetics that they cant get without paying in some form is p2w.

No it isn't. Just because you care more about something doesn't mean you are winning anything. It just means you are using a micro transaction. Pay to win has been used to label a difference between types of micro transactions and not as a catch all for any transaction for real money. Pay to Win is about power. If collections granted power then a mount, pet, or cosmetic would fall under pay to win.

It isn't about end goals but about the power attached to the micro transaction.

[Relapses]

As soon as Blizzard introduced the ability to buy level boosts, WoW became pay to win without a doubt.

That's a cool opinion you have there. Too bad it doesn't change the literal definition of what P2W actually means.

[TheRevenantHero]

That's a cool opinion you have there. Too bad it doesn't change the literal definition of what P2W actually means.

Buying a level boost to skip large swaths of content that another player would need to play through because they didn't pay the same amount is 100% pay to win. It's clear YOU don't know what p2w is.

[Shedaar]

Sorry if this is discussed anywhere else, could not find any Thread related to this.
Also Sorry for my English, it´s not my 1st Language

So I thought about my discussion following "New World" and the monetising System they want to add, by selling boosts and other convenient Items in addition to cosmetic Stuff. Most people claimed this would be p2w and I have to think about WoW in it´s current state and thinks you could buy by real Life Money.

You can buy all these Mounts and other shiny stuff from the Ingame store, and that´s total OK for me, because you don´t push your Player power with these items.
BUT, you can buy Character boosts. This is a bit tricky for me, because you buy some sort of Player power, but it doesn´t affect the Endgame, it´s just a Time Safe for these people, but it´s definitely something which is discussable.
But the most annoying thing is definitely the WoW Token itself. You can buy WoW Gold with real Money and can use it to buy BoE Items, which is definitely an increase in Player Power, and so some kind of Pay to Win. And you can buy boosts for M+, Raids, PvP with these Gold. This is not only an increase in Player Power, it´s the pure definition for Pay to win! "You want this? Just pay me X Gold and you get it."

I think WoW is going a dramatic way towards p2w, and this is not only Blizzards fault.
Blizz did the Mistake in the first, to make it possible by adding the Token, just because they wanted to address illegal gold selling.
The Only thing I can imagine at this point to address this, is to forbid boosts for Gold and remove boe items (in Raid quality) from the Game.

What do you guys think? Is WoW really pay to win nowadays or am I just over interpreting something in this?

Thanks for Reading

Yes, if you think that better items is going to get you through mythic sire denathrius then yes, it's pay2win
#sarcasm

[Soimu]

Ofc it is lol. Any person with a little bit of intelligence knows that. You can buy gold with real money and with that gold you can buy either BOE items which gets you inside raids or buy boosts which gets you the best gear in the game, complete every achievement or reach high ranks in pvp.

[Relapses]

Buying a level boost to skip large swaths of content that another player would need to play through because they didn't pay the same amount is 100% pay to win. It's clear YOU don't know what p2w is.

Oh okay, so now we define words with our feelings. Ben Shapiro would be rather disappointed.

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Ofc it is lol. Any person with a little bit of intelligence knows that. You can buy gold with real money and with that gold you can buy either BOE items which gets you inside raids or buy boosts which gets you the best gear in the game, complete every achievement or reach high ranks in pvp.

I have many intelligences and you're wrong.

[TheRevenantHero]

Oh okay, so now we define words with our feelings. Ben Shapiro would be rather disappointed.

Just because you refuse to accept facts doesn't make them feelings. If you can spend money to gain an advantage in game over players NOT spending money then it's pay to win. Period.

[rhorle]

Oh okay, so now we define words with our feelings. Ben Shapiro would be rather disappointed.

It isn't defining words with feelings. A level boost clearly falls under the typical definition of pay to win. Just because you are "buying power" that is irrelevant or the starting point for new content doesn't change that you are buying power. The definition typically used has never been about the "Best in slot" being bought but merely that power was bought.

Are level boosts a big deal? No. Because it isn't relevant power which is why many find it acceptable or justified even if they don't accept pay to win existing in games.

[Relapses]

Just because you refuse to accept facts doesn't make them feelings. If you can spend money to gain an advantage in game over players NOT spending money then it's pay to win. Period.

What facts am I refusing to accept? The purpose of WoW is to play the game, get gear and complete difficult content. There is no gear on the Blizzard store. You intentionally changing the definition of "winning" to fit whatever random ass parameters you feel are unfair does not change the fact that WoW is not, never has been and never will be P2W.

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It isn't defining words with feelings. A level boost clearly falls under the typical definition of pay to win. Just because you are "buying power" that is irrelevant or the starting point for new content doesn't change that you are buying power. The definition typically used has never been about the "Best in slot" being bought but merely that power was bought.

Are level boosts a big deal? No. Because it isn't relevant power which is why many find it acceptable or justified even if they don't accept pay to win existing in games.

I disagree on a fundamental level there for the reasons I just explained in the post above.

[EvilHakik]

100% Pay to win, you can buy wow tokens, sell them for gold, then purchase items to make you stronger. That's the definition of pay to win.

[Relapses]

100% Pay to win, you can buy wow tokens, sell them for gold, then purchase items to make you stronger. That's the definition of pay to win.

You can use the WoW token for things that aren't gear; and honestly, if you're buying WoW tokens to buy gear instead of just buying shit through a boosting service (*cough* RMT *cough*) you're doing it wrong anyway.

[rhorle]

I disagree on a fundamental level there for the reasons I just explained in the post above.

Power doesn't just come from gear though. No one is changing the definition of "pay to win" to random parameters by including all forms of character power that exist in the game. You can by character power directly from Blizzard. It just is power that is not relevant to end game until the end of the expansion when the boosts get brought up in preparation for the next expansion launch.

Your logic indicates that Blizzard could sell Heroic raid gear and as long as it isn't Mythic raid gear it won't be pay to win. Because you are not buying the best power you can get but an inferior form of it. A boost is a form of pay to win but the game is not pay to win because of the boosts.

[TheRevenantHero]

What facts am I refusing to accept? The purpose of WoW is to play the game, get gear and complete difficult content. There is no gear on the Blizzard store. You intentionally changing the definition of "winning" to fit whatever random ass parameters you feel are unfair does not change the fact that WoW is not, never has been and never will be P2W.

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I disagree on a fundamental level there for the reasons I just explained in the post above.

You just clearly don't know what pay to win is. As rhorle said, you are literally buying power with a level boost. Just because YOU think it's insignificant doesn't change the fact that you are literally buying character power. You are spending money to gain an advantage and that is 100% a form of p2w. But it's clear you are incapable of seeing any point other than your own.

[scelero]

If you think buying boosts is pay to win..... you should go to a triple monitor setup and convince that's not pay to win as well.