Page 2 of 120 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
12
52
102
... LastLast
  1. #21
    Yes, you are wrong.

    Boosts are irrelevant because you buy boosts from people that have completed the challenging, co-operative content before you.
    Who cares if ArthasdkLoL buys a boost from a guild that killed the end-boss a month ago.

    The same goes for M+. You can't buy your way to the world 1st 22 key for a specific dungeon.
    Buying your way to KSM isn't pay to win it is Pay to Mediocrity. Which is a fitting description for the idiots who buys such boosts.

    The only thing that could be argued that is P2W are BOEs. But it should be noted that all top-end guilds hate BOEs and constantly appeal to Blizzard to lessen the amount of BOEs that you can equip.
    But still it requires the absolute best of the best player to use the advantage of a couple of BOEs in order to get world 1st.

    Can you pay your way to mediocrity in WoW? Yes
    Can you pay your way to world 1st in raids, PvP or M+? No

    WoW is not P2W

  2. #22
    Depending on your personal definition it either is, or is not. That's really all there is to it.

    For some people owning a mount bought for real money is winning and they consider that pay to win already. It's whatever. Arguing with those people is pointless, just let them sit angry in their own corner.

    The better question is can you have fun and/or be competitive within the game without spending money on additional purchases and whether the game provides fair play ground for people who aren't spending, and the answer to that is - yes.
    Last edited by Azerate; 2021-06-02 at 11:39 AM.
    Armory Link
    Mount Collection

    Everything wrong with gamers in one sentence:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavox View Post
    I want Activision-Blizzard to burn, but for crimes against gaming, not because they got me too'd.

  3. #23
    If you define P2W as 'spending RL money on WoW can give you an advantage over some people who don't spend RL money on WoW' then yes, WoW is P2W.
    If you define P2W as 'all people who spend RL money on WoW have an advantage over all people who don't' then no, WoW is not P2W.

  4. #24
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    9,077
    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    Start a new WoW server without level boosts. Everyone is level 1, it's a fresh start, there are no items, nobody has any gear.

    Now, explain to me, EXACTLY how and what you can do with $50 to be ahead of little Jimmy and his friends that do not have $50 to spend. Now go to Neverwinter Online, or Everquest 2, and do the EXACT same thing and see the difference.

    My "Kind" actually know what the hell they are talking about when concerning genuine Pay to Win, your "Kind" clearly don't have a clue.
    You are defining "win" exclusively as having no access whatsoever to really powerful stuff which can only be bought with real money. A very convenient definition, and really useless as well, since it covers pretty much no (PC) game at all. By that logic, only crappy gacha mobile games would be P2W rofl
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomoprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  5. #25
    It depends by what do you mean by pay2win.

    This game is very skill dependant if it comes to endgame. Like even if you will buy fully max possible ilvl toon, but can't utilize it properly, the good player with much lower ilvl will outperform (or kill) you.

  6. #26
    No. And anyone claiming that it is, is being emotional rather than factual.
    You cannot in good conscience worship God, the Son and the Holy Spirit if you also worship Mammon. Capitalism is inherently evil.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Imphrazel View Post
    BUT, you can buy Character boosts. This is a bit tricky for me, because you buy some sort of Player power, but it doesn´t affect the Endgame, it´s just a Time Safe for these people, but it´s definitely something which is discussable.
    But the most annoying thing is definitely the WoW Token itself. You can buy WoW Gold with real Money and can use it to buy BoE Items, which is definitely an increase in Player Power, and so some kind of Pay to Win. And you can buy boosts for M+, Raids, PvP with these Gold. This is not only an increase in Player Power, it´s the pure definition for Pay to win! "You want this? Just pay me X Gold and you get it."
    No it's not pay 2 win. Yes you can buy a boost but that doesn't affect anyone but yourself (and to be honest with how quick levelling is now boosts are pointless imo).

    As for BoEs yes you can buy gold using the wow token and spend it on BoEs in the AH but again it's not pay 2 win because anyone can buy those BoEs on the AH (so they aren't locked behind say a premium currency) and BoEs aren't might allow you to do harder content quicker but they aren't the highest end gear anyway.

    The whole point of a pay 2 win system is that people can buy an advantage over other players who cannot get that advantage through playing the game normally (or where it is almost impossible to). Neither of these is the case with BoEs.

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,411
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    You are defining "win" exclusively as having no access whatsoever to really powerful stuff which can only be bought with real money. A very convenient definition, and really useless as well, since it covers pretty much no (PC) game at all. By that logic, only crappy gacha mobile games would be P2W rofl
    No. I described a scenario that is explicitly required for WoW to be Pay to Win. What can you buy on a brand new server (and they wouldn't have level boosts) that would put you ahead of everyone else that doesnt pay?

    That is the EXPLICIT difference between WoW and actual Pay to Win games, of which you clearly have absolutely zero experience.

    Oh, and crappy mobile games ARE P2W for this very reason. You have an enormous advantage over those that do not pay in shit like that Dungeon Keeper game: Dig walls for payment, or wait 12 hours. And you know what else? That also doesn't require other people to do the work with you.

    Someone had to do the work to get the items, someone had to do the work to get the gold, someone had to do the work to get to a gear and skill level to where they can carry you. These people will ALWAYS be above you. There are absolutely no methods at all in WoW where you could pay for anything that takes you above everyone that doesn't pay, even temporarily. And the same is certainly not true in the Dungeon Keeper mobile game, or Neverwinter Online, or even Everquest 2.
    Last edited by Lollis; 2021-06-02 at 11:55 AM.
    Speciation Is Gradual

  9. #29
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    9,077
    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    No. I described a scenario.
    Your scenario isn't the only possible one. Your definition of P2W is narrow, too narrow to be of any actual use.
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomoprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  10. #30
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,411
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Your scenario isn't the only possible one. Your definition of P2W is narrow, too narrow to be of any actual use.
    Feel free to elaborate.

    Here are methods on how WoW would actually be Pay to Win:

    • You can buy gold WITHOUT others being required to farm it and buy tokens.
    • You can buy level boosts on a brand new server while everyone else is level 1.
    • You can buy items WITHOUT others being required to farm them.
    • You can buy an NPC clear of X dungeon or Raid (Or be made invulnerable/superpowered etc to do it yourself)
    • You can literally buy Titles/Status from PvP or PvE.


    Each one would be explicitly making WoW Pay to Win, or at the very least "Pay to Massive Advantage." Additionally, each one is also represented (possibly multiple of them) in many of the genuine Pay to Win games that do exist.
    Last edited by Lollis; 2021-06-02 at 12:12 PM.
    Speciation Is Gradual

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Your scenario isn't the only possible one. Your definition of P2W is narrow, too narrow to be of any actual use.
    Lets say in wow you can pay to other people and they will win it for you. But without boosters you will not gain the ability to win by yourself.

  12. #32
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    FEEL THE WRATH OF MY SPANNER!!
    Posts
    33,986
    No, it is not Pay 2 Win, though many hold belief in such due to the token and the boost - but they are not really qualifying as Pay 2 Win, I believe.

    Unless, if you take the tokens as Pay 2 Win, then you believe that having gold is Pay 2 Win, and this any MMORPG that has people offering a service for gold, to be Pay 2 Win.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Imphrazel View Post
    Sorry if this is discussed anywhere else, could not find any Thread related to this.
    You REALLY didn't look hard enough

  14. #34
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    9,077
    Quote Originally Posted by iinverse View Post
    Lets say in wow you can pay to other people and they will win it for you. But without boosters you will not gain the ability to win by yourself.
    Of course you won't, Blizz isn't dumb, you will always have to rely on others. It doesn't change anything, though.
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomoprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  15. #35
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,411
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Of course you won't, Blizz isn't dumb, you will always have to rely on others. It doesn't change anything, though.
    Yes it does. It defines the precise meaning of the words.

    How do you define winning? Is it being able to "Win" over other players who must therefore implicitly "Lose"? You know, like everyone else does?
    Speciation Is Gradual

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    No, it is not Pay 2 Win, though many hold belief in such due to the token and the boost - but they are not really qualifying as Pay 2 Win, I believe.
    by some peoples definition boost saves you time so its p2w, but by that definition SUBSCRIPTION is p2w bcs you can get gametime via playing (farming gold) but you decide to rather save time and spend rl money, and buy sub, so its the same as boost just with BIGGER advantage

  17. #37
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    FEEL THE WRATH OF MY SPANNER!!
    Posts
    33,986
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    by some peoples definition boost saves you time so its p2w, but by that definition SUBSCRIPTION is p2w bcs you can get gametime via playing (farming gold) but you decide to rather save time and spend rl money, and buy sub, so its the same as boost just with BIGGER advantage
    Well, then we go into the deep hole. If boost is P2W, then the currency is P2W too because you can get currency from token, and if there was no token, you could get currency illegally. So, everything is P2W suddenly..
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Well, then we go into the deep hole. If boost is P2W, then the currency is P2W too because you can get currency from token, and if there was no token, you could get currency illegally. So, everything is P2W suddenly..
    yeah, thing is i dont mind if someone wants to think wow is p2w even though i disagree, but when someone says its p2w since token i grind my teeth, as selling gold/boosts/BOE items (especialy for twinks) was present since vanila... so either its not p2w or it always been...
    personaly, i think its not p2w as you cant buy advantage that cant be gained via regular play

  19. #39
    Depends. To win what? Top spots in Mythic raiding guilds, M+ high key runs, top arena/rbg rankings? No. If winning means good gear? What does gear matter if the player s*cks?

    So, NO, its not pay to win. Token just helps nerds with $$$ to skip the grinding process. But they still can't compete with good players. How can someone win if the better player is selling you boosts? That means the seller already won...

  20. #40
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    The Lookout
    Posts
    20,775
    No it isn't, since you can earn all things in game without using Tokens and don't gain player power beyond that which is achievable in game by using Tokens.

    Idiots along the way forgot what Pay2Win actually means.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •