1. #721
    Tokens are just a safer way to do what people was doing waaaay before it's implementation. if you don't like how WoW give players the option to sell gear or services, that's ok, and you can say the game if p2w because of that. But it has nothing to do with the WoW token. It is an elegant solution to shady sites and constant scams, not the causation of player being able to exchange RL money for goods and services.

  2. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    No, tokens were added in 2015.
    TCG loot cards were sold from October 2006.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The TCG was was launched in 2006. Which I don't think it's too much of a stretch to call that "legal P2W", it just had more hoops to jump through than the token does.
    Or thanks to this thread, I've decided to call TCG loot for 'Exclusive P2W' while tokens are P2W for everyone..

    Since tokens are apparently considered P2W.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  3. #723
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Or thanks to this thread, I've decided to call TCG loot for 'Exclusive P2W' while tokens are P2W for everyone..

    Since tokens are apparently considered P2W.
    Or those those who like living on the edge, it was like a gacha roll to see if they won the P2W by actually buying packs.

  4. #724
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    TCG loot cards were sold from October 2006.

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    Or thanks to this thread, I've decided to call TCG loot for 'Exclusive P2W' while tokens are P2W for everyone..

    Since tokens are apparently considered P2W.
    Neither are P2W but no matter how many people you try to correct in this thread, most simply do not possess the critical thinking skills necessary to understand that it's half a dozen of one and six of another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Or those those who like living on the edge, it was like a gacha roll to see if they won the P2W by actually buying packs.
    TCG was patently worse than anything modern Blizzard does these days but players like to keep their nostalgia goggles so firmly attached that they often begin cutting off circulation to their brains.

  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Or those those who like living on the edge, it was like a gacha roll to see if they won the P2W by actually buying packs.
    I admit I had my winnings, quite a lot of them, even managed to auction off a spectral tiger on eBay... Though, I regret having done it, seeing the prices now.. But money was money. But the few things sold on the auction for gold netted still a few hundred thousand.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  6. #726
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The TCG was was launched in 2006. Which I don't think it's too much of a stretch to call that "legal P2W", it just had more hoops to jump through than the token does.
    What did the TCG add that wasn't cosmetic? I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

    We're talking pay2win here, not pay2lookcool.

  7. #727
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    What did the TCG add that wasn't cosmetic? I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

    We're talking pay2win here, not pay2lookcool.
    The mounts are BoE. They could be bought with real cash, to sell on the AH for gold.

  8. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    What did the TCG add that wasn't cosmetic? I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

    We're talking pay2win here, not pay2lookcool.
    Then we can use this for tokens?

    What did the token add that wasn't game-time? I can't think of anything off the top of my head

    We're talking pay2win here, not pay2play
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The mounts are BoE. They could be bought with real cash, to sell on the AH for gold.
    The pets could be sold at the auction too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Neither are P2W but no matter how many people you try to correct in this thread, most simply do not possess the critical thinking skills necessary to understand that it's half a dozen of one and six of another.

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    TCG was patently worse than anything modern Blizzard does these days but players like to keep their nostalgia goggles so firmly attached that they often begin cutting off circulation to their brains.
    Yeah, I've noticed. Only reason I'm in this thread is to have an overall view of what people feel, and when they mention token, many seem to cut off the talk once we talk further back than the token..
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  9. #729
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    TCG was patently worse than anything modern Blizzard does these days but players like to keep their nostalgia goggles so firmly attached that they often begin cutting off circulation to their brains.
    But it came with that sweet sweet rush of serotonin when you open a pack with a loot card in it.
    Buying a token isn't nearly the same!

    But yeah it's pretty crazy, especially considering how the value just skyrocketed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    I admit I had my winnings, quite a lot of them, even managed to auction off a spectral tiger on eBay... Though, I regret having done it, seeing the prices now.. But money was money. But the few things sold on the auction for gold netted still a few hundred thousand.
    I think I only ever got like, one pet card. But I also only started finding the packs like, shortly before they stopped making them too, since I started with Cataclysm basically.

    Ended up nabbing a Feldrake and Spectral tiger from the AH though at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    The pets could be sold at the auction too.
    I actually forgot that one. The ethereal pet and spectral tiger cub are still pretty pricey last I checked.

  10. #730
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The TCG was was launched in 2006. Which I don't think it's too much of a stretch to call that "legal P2W", it just had more hoops to jump through than the token does.
    It is a huge stretch. TCG was micro transactions or cash shop. They were not pay to win and not all cash shop things is pay to win. We had an entire discussion about how you think a level boost is not pay to win and here you are saying cosmetic items are.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  11. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It is a huge stretch. TCG was micro transactions or cash shop. They were not pay to win and not all cash shop things is pay to win. We had an entire discussion about how you think a level boost is not pay to win and here you are saying cosmetic items are.
    If i remember correctly, you spent several hours yesterday saying "level boost is pay to win"
    And then you said buying BoE's is NOT pay to win at all.

    Whats the deal with you and him? Will you spend again 10+ hours going in circles with all this weird opinions?

  12. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by Roanda View Post
    If i remember correctly, you spent several hours yesterday saying "level boost is pay to win"
    And then you said buying BoE's is NOT pay to win at all.

    Whats the deal with you and him? Will you spend again 10+ hours going in circles with all this weird opinions?
    /shrug I'm not indulging him anymore.

  13. #733
    Quote Originally Posted by Roanda View Post
    If i remember correctly, you spent several hours yesterday saying "level boost is pay to win" And then you said buying BoE's is NOT pay to win at all. Whats the deal with you and him? Will you spend again 10+ hours going in circles with all this weird opinions?
    Buying a BoE is not pay to win. You buy them from players and they are supplied by players. If that is pay to win then so is buying flasks, enchants, herbs, or anything else for gold. A level boost is pay to win because you are buying an advantage relating to power from Blizzard. Cosmetics are not pay to win because they are cosmetics and do not relate to power.

    Battle pets are a grey area. They are cosmetic but they do confer power because you can gain xp, rep, gold, world quests etc from the pets. And some store pets offer unique abilities and can only be obtained from the store. Even some that are now "retired".
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I think I only ever got like, one pet card. But I also only started finding the packs like, shortly before they stopped making them too, since I started with Cataclysm basically.

    Ended up nabbing a Feldrake and Spectral tiger from the AH though at least.
    I admit, where I live, the stores that sold TCG cards for Warcraft all had limits of max 10 pr. customer pr. week, so I went to three other stores too once one had been paid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I actually forgot that one. The ethereal pet and spectral tiger cub are still pretty pricey last I checked.
    I have my two lvl 25 Ethereal Soul Traders, and one Spectral Tiger Cub at 21, not letting them go, haha. And yeah, they are a bit.. spicy.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It is a huge stretch. TCG was micro transactions or cash shop. They were not pay to win and not all cash shop things is pay to win. We had an entire discussion about how you think a level boost is not pay to win and here you are saying cosmetic items are.
    The TCG discussion was added because some people believe that the token is P2W, they are both of the same premises.

    1.: Both Sold by Blizzard.
    2.: Both Purchased with real money (though TCG is gambling and token is not)
    2a.: TCG are trading cards for the Warcraft universe, and some cards could contain actual in-game loot.
    2b.: The token is a game-time item for World of Warcraft.
    3.: Both created items to be traded/sold.
    4.: Both legal to be sold for gold.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  15. #735
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    I admit, where I live, the stores that sold TCG cards for Warcraft all had limits of max 10 pr. customer pr. week, so I went to three other stores too once one had been paid.


    I have my two lvl 25 Ethereal Soul Traders, and one Spectral Tiger Cub at 21, not letting them go, haha. And yeah, they are a bit.. spicy.
    Can't say I can judge considering my pokemon/mtg card buying.

    Despite never playing either anymore lol.

    I am a teensy bit jealous of those Soul Traders though.

  16. #736
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    The TCG discussion was added because some people believe that the token is P2W, they are both of the same premises.

    1.: Both Sold by Blizzard.
    2.: Both Purchased with real money (though TCG is gambling and token is not)
    2a.: TCG are trading cards for the Warcraft universe, and some cards could contain actual in-game loot.
    2b.: The token is a game-time item for World of Warcraft.
    3.: Both created items to be traded/sold.
    4.: Both legal to be sold for gold.
    TCG was not sold by Blizzard though. It was first Upper deck. Then Cryptozoic entertainment that has ties to Blizzard but is a separate privately held company. They are still in business today. It is silly to equate all cash shop type purchases as pay to win even if some believe the token is pay to win. They are no where near the same premise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptozoic_Entertainment
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  17. #737
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The mounts are BoE. They could be bought with real cash, to sell on the AH for gold.
    Ahh-- you're right, sure, I've seen them sold. Good point.

    Much less direct than selling tokens, but certainly on the same slippery slope.

  18. #738
    I love how everyone saying it's not pay to win doesn't have legitimate reasons. It just boils down to "because I said so".

  19. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Can't say I can judge considering my pokemon/mtg card buying.

    Despite never playing either anymore lol.

    I am a teensy bit jealous of those Soul Traders though.
    Used to have various collections. Cards of Pokémon, Yugioh, Warcraft TCG, and MTG, on top of that, used to collect Pogs (not the headwear, but the round discs) and few other things, hah.

    And yeah, the traders are my pride and joy.. hoping for a cheap to come on AH so I have three of them.. Haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    TCG was not sold by Blizzard though. It was first Upper deck. Then Cryptozoic entertainment that has ties to Blizzard but is a separate privately held company. They are still in business today. It is silly to equate all cash shop type purchases as pay to win even if some believe the token is pay to win. They are no where near the same premise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptozoic_Entertainment
    Okay.. So, more steps, but in the end, Blizzard.

    And they are the same?

    There just, as I forgot to add, more steps to TCG, but in the end, they brought in gold, like the token. Making it more exclusive than the token because of the gambling.

    Someone in the thread stated that a real-money item from the developer (in this case commissioned out to someone else but still from Blizzard (i.e. codes and all)) which can be traded for in-game gold, is Pay2Win.

    Not to mention that TCG is legal to sell for gold, and game-time was not legal to sell for gold until we could with the token.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I love how everyone saying it's not pay to win doesn't have legitimate reasons. It just boils down to "because I said so".
    Well, as we've seen in the thread, it boils down to different opinions of what 'power' is and what 'advantage' something seems to give.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Ahh-- you're right, sure, I've seen them sold. Good point.

    Much less direct than selling tokens, but certainly on the same slippery slope.
    Both are, according to the development of this thread, indirect P2W as the gold earned could buy you gear or boosts.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  20. #740
    Would it be called p2w in any other MMO?

    YES

    The only reason its not called p2w in WoW is because people dont want to admit it.
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