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  1. #721
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    To be fair, I'm not quite sure I'd pin that on the token alone. Before as you've said, there was CM and Mythic to be boosted through. Both are really one time events if you're paying for the mount from Mythic especially. I would venture as far to say the people buying the boosts for this weren't interested in gear really, but the cosmetic rewards.

    Now we have M+, which not only attracts the people who were buying CM boosts so they can get their KSM, but also people who are looking to gear up alts quickly since generally speaking buying a single +15 run isn't too out of the realm of possibilities, unlike Mythic raid boosts which are a hell of a lot more expensive.

    To top it off, SL has the unique issue of PvP being the most reliable way to gear up, encouraging people to also look for PvP boosts rather than spending the time invested in it.

    The token does end up drawing quite a bit of attention in that case for people looking for that quick gold though.
    I think the token really kicked it off because of how few people actually had gold in wow to start with. The limiting factor of boosts wasn't so much people willing to sell boosts but the number of people who could reliably buy them.

    While gold selling always happened it was far more taboo and risky then. I know selling CE mounts we usually had mostly the same buyers each tier almost all of them auction house mugils.

  2. #722
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Yes and no.

    On one side you can pay to finish the game raid/story/gear wise.

    On the other hand people who do it this way will always have to pay their way. They will never be able to clear mythic/rank high in PvP/clear high M+ Keys without paying someone to carry them.

    Every person who can will never pay their way to the top as getting a full set of gear is laughable easy in wow and paying RL money for it is stupid. Unless you are in the WFR. Because well... these earlie items give you an edge. But their own fault. No one forces them to participate in it.

    So. Winning no. Finishing... maybe. Also strawman: I never met one single person who bought themselves a full set of max lvl gear via boosts...
    It's not P2W, it's Pay2BRFL.

    Pay 2 Be Really Fucking Lazy

    /thread

  3. #723
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    But then WoW has been legally P2W since October 2006..
    No, tokens were added in 2015.

  4. #724
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    I think the token really kicked it off because of how few people actually had gold in wow to start with. The limiting factor of boosts wasn't so much people willing to sell boosts but the number of people who could reliably buy them.

    While gold selling always happened it was far more taboo and risky then. I know selling CE mounts we usually had mostly the same buyers each tier almost all of them auction house mugils.
    It definitely gave the ability to buy gold to those who didn't want to risk the bans, because as you said it was far more risky to back then.

    I just do also wonder how many people use that to buy stuff like CE, because I would think it would be more popular to be like, "Oh, I'll buy a token to get a +15 done this week". At least, currently the NA token is around 180k and I'm pretty sure you could get an M+ run with that (haven't looked into the prices lately though admittedly).

    Granted, that's just more on a lower level of what you're saying anyway I believe, so less of disagreeing and more of idle curiosity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    No, tokens were added in 2015.
    The TCG was was launched in 2006. Which I don't think it's too much of a stretch to call that "legal P2W", it just had more hoops to jump through than the token does.

  5. #725
    Tokens are just a safer way to do what people was doing waaaay before it's implementation. if you don't like how WoW give players the option to sell gear or services, that's ok, and you can say the game if p2w because of that. But it has nothing to do with the WoW token. It is an elegant solution to shady sites and constant scams, not the causation of player being able to exchange RL money for goods and services.

  6. #726
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    No, tokens were added in 2015.
    TCG loot cards were sold from October 2006.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The TCG was was launched in 2006. Which I don't think it's too much of a stretch to call that "legal P2W", it just had more hoops to jump through than the token does.
    Or thanks to this thread, I've decided to call TCG loot for 'Exclusive P2W' while tokens are P2W for everyone..

    Since tokens are apparently considered P2W.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  7. #727
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Or thanks to this thread, I've decided to call TCG loot for 'Exclusive P2W' while tokens are P2W for everyone..

    Since tokens are apparently considered P2W.
    Or those those who like living on the edge, it was like a gacha roll to see if they won the P2W by actually buying packs.

  8. #728
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    TCG loot cards were sold from October 2006.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Or thanks to this thread, I've decided to call TCG loot for 'Exclusive P2W' while tokens are P2W for everyone..

    Since tokens are apparently considered P2W.
    Neither are P2W but no matter how many people you try to correct in this thread, most simply do not possess the critical thinking skills necessary to understand that it's half a dozen of one and six of another.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Or those those who like living on the edge, it was like a gacha roll to see if they won the P2W by actually buying packs.
    TCG was patently worse than anything modern Blizzard does these days but players like to keep their nostalgia goggles so firmly attached that they often begin cutting off circulation to their brains.

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Or those those who like living on the edge, it was like a gacha roll to see if they won the P2W by actually buying packs.
    I admit I had my winnings, quite a lot of them, even managed to auction off a spectral tiger on eBay... Though, I regret having done it, seeing the prices now.. But money was money. But the few things sold on the auction for gold netted still a few hundred thousand.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  10. #730
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The TCG was was launched in 2006. Which I don't think it's too much of a stretch to call that "legal P2W", it just had more hoops to jump through than the token does.
    What did the TCG add that wasn't cosmetic? I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

    We're talking pay2win here, not pay2lookcool.

  11. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    What did the TCG add that wasn't cosmetic? I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

    We're talking pay2win here, not pay2lookcool.
    The mounts are BoE. They could be bought with real cash, to sell on the AH for gold.

  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    What did the TCG add that wasn't cosmetic? I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

    We're talking pay2win here, not pay2lookcool.
    Then we can use this for tokens?

    What did the token add that wasn't game-time? I can't think of anything off the top of my head

    We're talking pay2win here, not pay2play
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The mounts are BoE. They could be bought with real cash, to sell on the AH for gold.
    The pets could be sold at the auction too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Neither are P2W but no matter how many people you try to correct in this thread, most simply do not possess the critical thinking skills necessary to understand that it's half a dozen of one and six of another.

    - - - Updated - - -



    TCG was patently worse than anything modern Blizzard does these days but players like to keep their nostalgia goggles so firmly attached that they often begin cutting off circulation to their brains.
    Yeah, I've noticed. Only reason I'm in this thread is to have an overall view of what people feel, and when they mention token, many seem to cut off the talk once we talk further back than the token..
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  13. #733
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    TCG was patently worse than anything modern Blizzard does these days but players like to keep their nostalgia goggles so firmly attached that they often begin cutting off circulation to their brains.
    But it came with that sweet sweet rush of serotonin when you open a pack with a loot card in it.
    Buying a token isn't nearly the same!

    But yeah it's pretty crazy, especially considering how the value just skyrocketed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    I admit I had my winnings, quite a lot of them, even managed to auction off a spectral tiger on eBay... Though, I regret having done it, seeing the prices now.. But money was money. But the few things sold on the auction for gold netted still a few hundred thousand.
    I think I only ever got like, one pet card. But I also only started finding the packs like, shortly before they stopped making them too, since I started with Cataclysm basically.

    Ended up nabbing a Feldrake and Spectral tiger from the AH though at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    The pets could be sold at the auction too.
    I actually forgot that one. The ethereal pet and spectral tiger cub are still pretty pricey last I checked.

  14. #734
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The TCG was was launched in 2006. Which I don't think it's too much of a stretch to call that "legal P2W", it just had more hoops to jump through than the token does.
    It is a huge stretch. TCG was micro transactions or cash shop. They were not pay to win and not all cash shop things is pay to win. We had an entire discussion about how you think a level boost is not pay to win and here you are saying cosmetic items are.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  15. #735
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It is a huge stretch. TCG was micro transactions or cash shop. They were not pay to win and not all cash shop things is pay to win. We had an entire discussion about how you think a level boost is not pay to win and here you are saying cosmetic items are.
    If i remember correctly, you spent several hours yesterday saying "level boost is pay to win"
    And then you said buying BoE's is NOT pay to win at all.

    Whats the deal with you and him? Will you spend again 10+ hours going in circles with all this weird opinions?

  16. #736
    Quote Originally Posted by Roanda View Post
    If i remember correctly, you spent several hours yesterday saying "level boost is pay to win"
    And then you said buying BoE's is NOT pay to win at all.

    Whats the deal with you and him? Will you spend again 10+ hours going in circles with all this weird opinions?
    /shrug I'm not indulging him anymore.

  17. #737
    Quote Originally Posted by Roanda View Post
    If i remember correctly, you spent several hours yesterday saying "level boost is pay to win" And then you said buying BoE's is NOT pay to win at all. Whats the deal with you and him? Will you spend again 10+ hours going in circles with all this weird opinions?
    Buying a BoE is not pay to win. You buy them from players and they are supplied by players. If that is pay to win then so is buying flasks, enchants, herbs, or anything else for gold. A level boost is pay to win because you are buying an advantage relating to power from Blizzard. Cosmetics are not pay to win because they are cosmetics and do not relate to power.

    Battle pets are a grey area. They are cosmetic but they do confer power because you can gain xp, rep, gold, world quests etc from the pets. And some store pets offer unique abilities and can only be obtained from the store. Even some that are now "retired".
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  18. #738
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I think I only ever got like, one pet card. But I also only started finding the packs like, shortly before they stopped making them too, since I started with Cataclysm basically.

    Ended up nabbing a Feldrake and Spectral tiger from the AH though at least.
    I admit, where I live, the stores that sold TCG cards for Warcraft all had limits of max 10 pr. customer pr. week, so I went to three other stores too once one had been paid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I actually forgot that one. The ethereal pet and spectral tiger cub are still pretty pricey last I checked.
    I have my two lvl 25 Ethereal Soul Traders, and one Spectral Tiger Cub at 21, not letting them go, haha. And yeah, they are a bit.. spicy.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It is a huge stretch. TCG was micro transactions or cash shop. They were not pay to win and not all cash shop things is pay to win. We had an entire discussion about how you think a level boost is not pay to win and here you are saying cosmetic items are.
    The TCG discussion was added because some people believe that the token is P2W, they are both of the same premises.

    1.: Both Sold by Blizzard.
    2.: Both Purchased with real money (though TCG is gambling and token is not)
    2a.: TCG are trading cards for the Warcraft universe, and some cards could contain actual in-game loot.
    2b.: The token is a game-time item for World of Warcraft.
    3.: Both created items to be traded/sold.
    4.: Both legal to be sold for gold.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  19. #739
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    I admit, where I live, the stores that sold TCG cards for Warcraft all had limits of max 10 pr. customer pr. week, so I went to three other stores too once one had been paid.


    I have my two lvl 25 Ethereal Soul Traders, and one Spectral Tiger Cub at 21, not letting them go, haha. And yeah, they are a bit.. spicy.
    Can't say I can judge considering my pokemon/mtg card buying.

    Despite never playing either anymore lol.

    I am a teensy bit jealous of those Soul Traders though.

  20. #740
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    The TCG discussion was added because some people believe that the token is P2W, they are both of the same premises.

    1.: Both Sold by Blizzard.
    2.: Both Purchased with real money (though TCG is gambling and token is not)
    2a.: TCG are trading cards for the Warcraft universe, and some cards could contain actual in-game loot.
    2b.: The token is a game-time item for World of Warcraft.
    3.: Both created items to be traded/sold.
    4.: Both legal to be sold for gold.
    TCG was not sold by Blizzard though. It was first Upper deck. Then Cryptozoic entertainment that has ties to Blizzard but is a separate privately held company. They are still in business today. It is silly to equate all cash shop type purchases as pay to win even if some believe the token is pay to win. They are no where near the same premise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptozoic_Entertainment
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

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