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  1. #801
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    You've yet to field a single suggestion on what Blizzard could do to stop gold selling.

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    How does this address what I said in any way, shape or form?
    I mean i have you not being able to follow along isnt a me issue...

  2. #802
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You're smart enough to realize...what?
    It's minimal to be able to disenchant every quest item you get? It's minimal to be able to skin every beast you kill? It's minimal to be able to mine/gather every node you see?

    That's what you consider minimal? That sounds more like you just don't care about it while leveling and consider it "minimal" because YOU think it's not important. Has nothing to do with intelligence.



    What are you even talking about?

    I bring up old professions and everything because that's what you skip by getting a boost. Yes, you can go back to it, but then you still end up having to spend the time you paid to skip in the end. Even if it's less to you because you're a higher level, it's still additional time. And it's directly related to the boost.

    Your example of gear has nothing to do with it. You get handed pretty awful gear when you boost. You're reaching in the first place to try to compare it to gear, because heroic gear is what you use to get into mythics. You don't use a level 50 boost to get into mythics. It's not comparable at all. You may think it's some great point, but it's pretty flawed because of that.
    Who cares about old professions? Professions are worthless anyway. Any player will tell you boosting is 100x more effective for gold making. And professions while leveling take time away from being able to level your character. There is nothing stopping you from going back once max level and doing old professions and you'll have max flying speed. Plus, professions are separated by expansion now. You dknt need to level old professions anymore.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2021-06-04 at 07:36 PM.

  3. #803
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    And I'm just going to be the prick and say, you aren't buying gold from Blizzard, though. This is why I don't see the token as P2W.
    Blizzard is facilitating the transaction and condoning it, that's what I don't like. But I get why they did it, fraud and botting from gold farmers, and pragmatically I think it was probably the right decision.

  4. #804
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Blizzard is facilitating the transaction and condoning it, that's what I don't like. But I get why they did it, fraud and botting from gold farmers, and pragmatically I think it was probably the right decision.
    Thank god there isn't any botting anymore....

  5. #805
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Getting back to 2005 would be nice wow's community has only decayed since then. Method cheating by buying gold has always been a thing but its a perk of being blizzards pr team.

    I just rather the game be improved rather then made into the whore of Babylon
    Hm...bit of an evasive manoeuvre imho. And what is this "Method cheating by buying gold" all about? It is also an extra weird example, because Limit won the last World First, right? So no matter how much Method "paid", they didn't "win". So much for "pay to win"

    But let me ask you directly: Do you still play that p2w game that you so despise? Does it offer so much more that you enjoy that you can look the other way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Thank god there isn't any botting anymore....
    Glad for this answer, because it tells me the problem is parts of the community. No matter what you think about it being better in 2205. People are shit, will cheat and do whatever it takes to get ahead. This is why I think removing the token will solve nothing.

  6. #806
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Blizzard is facilitating the transaction and condoning it, that's what I don't like. But I get why they did it, fraud and botting from gold farmers, and pragmatically I think it was probably the right decision.
    Aye. People may not like it, but it was either that, or let the gold sellers run rampant like they used to.
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  7. #807
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    I never got the mentality that if you can't fix a problem 100% its not worth doing at all. If you removed the token you would stop a massive amount of people buying gold with money. Yes not all of them but the grand majority will not risk their accounts.
    You'd also have a sway of people leaving the game because they can no longer play for "free", with these people also being WoW's highest subscription payers. There's not many things I can say with absolute certainty are never going to happen, but the WoW token being removed is one of them.

    I've already given my stance on P2W multiple times this thread, but in addition to what I've previously said, I'll say this: P2W will only be an issue for me if they add things to the store that offer player-power that simply isn't obtainable in-game. Something like a store mount that goes beyond 310%, or an armour piece that's better than everything in-game.

    If that were to ever happen, I'd be the first to say WoW is P2W.
    Last edited by Toybox; 2021-06-04 at 07:42 PM.

  8. #808
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Thank god there isn't any botting anymore....
    Token or no token, the botting will be there as long as there are lazy people believing they are entitled to do it because else they lose out on things when sleeping or working, or losing out on their possible income. Even with the new system, bot creators just make new systems too.
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  9. #809
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Hm...bit of an evasive manoeuvre imho. And what is this "Method cheating by buying gold" all about? It is also an extra weird example, because Limit won the last World First, right? So no matter how much Method "paid", they didn't "win". So much for "pay to win"

    But let me ask you directly: Do you still play that p2w game that you so despise? Does it offer so much more that you enjoy that you can look the other way?



    Glad for this answer, because it tells me the problem is parts of the community. No matter what you think about it being better in 2205. People are shit, will cheat and do whatever it takes to get ahead. This is why I think removing the token will solve nothing.
    I don't really get the mentality of "well things are shit but your willing to bare it so let them be shit" either to be blunt.

  10. #810
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Let's not bring in the politics on this. Some should just make fair work contracts. Now, back to the topic.
    I don't necessarily think it's "politics" to observe that if the proposed solution is, "just hire more GMs" that said GMs aren't exactly something that they'd be able to materialize from thin air. Arguments on forums tend to promote these types of solutions then once you begin to bring up pesky factors such as "reality" they immediately retract to, "well it's just a suggestion." I don't think this really helps move things along...but that's just me.

  11. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    You'd also have a sway of people leaving the game because they can no longer play for "free", with these people also being WoW's highest subscription payers. There's not many things I can say with absolute certainty are never going to happen, but the WoW token being removed is one of them.

    I've already given my stance on P2W multiple times this thread, but in addition to what I've previously said, I'll say this: P2W will only be an issue for me if they add things to the store that offer player-power that simply isn't obtainable in-game. Something like a store mount that goes beyond 310%, or an armour piece that's better than everything in-game.

    If that were to ever happen, I'd be the first to say WoW is P2W.
    Bolded for the truth. This is exactly what pay to win is and would be. Period.
    No idea why this thread is still going on when an undisputed fact has been laid out for the naysayers to see.
    Now people argue about gold and boosting, which are services provided by players, bought by players. It has nothing to do with pay to win, because by this logic super mario is pay to win.
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  12. #812
    Gold farmer botting is far less prevalent than it used to be. It still exists, and farmed gold is still cheaper than selling a token, but most players sell the token anyway, because there's no chance of getting banned for it.

  13. #813
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Yeah, thanks for proving my point. So, if Blizzard started selling full mythic raids set in the store, you would have no issues with it, wouldn't you? After all, you aren't "winning" anything, you could have got those items through regular gameplay anyway, right?
    Did you read my post? I literally called buying it losing. Try again, see if you can spot it.

    But you are right, I don't mind it, let those people spend their money on gear that is useless in a few months so they get to enjoy current content at full power, what is it to you? I've said this a million times in the past, you are not special just because you've "earned" something the hard way in a game, nor does it makes you better than anyone or entitled to things they aren't. Unless you literally compete for world firsts, you are just grinding gear until the skill cap is lowered sufficiently for you to clear the next difficulty content along with everyone else.

  14. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    Did you read my post? I literally called buying it losing. Try again, see if you can spot it.

    But you are right, I don't mind it, let those people spend their money on gear that is useless in a few months so they get to enjoy current content at full power, what is it to you? I've said this a million times in the past, you are not special just because you've "earned" something the hard way in a game, nor does it makes you better than anyone or entitled to things they aren't. Unless you literally compete for world firsts, you are just grinding gear until the skill cap is lowered sufficiently for you to clear the next difficulty content along with everyone else.
    At least you are being honest about letting WoW go down the proverbial slippery slope of P2W. You heard it here first bois, some posters are OK with selling full mythic sets in the store!
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  15. #815
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuppy View Post
    Bolded for the truth. This is exactly what pay to win is and would be. Period.
    No idea why this thread is still going on when an undisputed fact has been laid out for the naysayers to see.
    Now people argue about gold and boosting, which are services provided by players, bought by players. It has nothing to do with pay to win, because by this logic super mario is pay to win.
    Because nothing in game allows you to skip 50 levels of content so therefore the paid character boost is pay to win by that very definition.

  16. #816
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Because nothing in game allows you to skip 50 levels of content so therefore the paid character boost is pay to win by that very definition.
    No, because you can get those levels without significantly out of line effort. The boost only lets you get them faster. It doesn't give you anything that isn't otherwise achievable with reasonable effort.

  17. #817
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, because you can get those levels without significantly out of line effort. The boost only lets you get them faster. It doesn't give you anything that isn't otherwise achievable with reasonable effort.
    Completely disregarding what I said, as usual. I said that there is no way to skip 50 fucking levels of content like the boost does. You cannot achieve that in game and therefore by the definition given by other people, that classifies as p2w since you are buying player power that can't be achieved in game as nothing lets you skip that much content in one fell swoop.

  18. #818
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, because you can get those levels without significantly out of line effort. The boost only lets you get them faster. It doesn't give you anything that isn't otherwise achievable with reasonable effort.
    Buying gear only lets you get it faster. It doesn't give you anything that isn't otherwise achievable with reasonable effort. Is buying gear pay to win?
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  19. #819
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuppy View Post
    Bolded for the truth. This is exactly what pay to win is and would be. Period.
    No idea why this thread is still going on when an undisputed fact has been laid out for the naysayers to see.
    Now people argue about gold and boosting, which are services provided by players, bought by players. It has nothing to do with pay to win, because by this logic super mario is pay to win.
    Should point out that in the majority of games that are "pay 2 win" the stuff you can buy with actual money can also be earned in game.

    Again, if it was any other MMO doing it, there would be no discussion, it would be called p2w. Since this is WoW, people are willing to really dig in and defend it.
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  20. #820
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Completely disregarding what I said, as usual. I said that there is no way to skip 50 fucking levels of content like the boost does. You cannot achieve that in game and therefore by the definition given by other people, that classifies as p2w since you are buying player power that can't be achieved in game as nothing lets you skip that much content in one fell swoop.
    Which means it isn't P2W since it can be achieved in game. I'm not sure what you're even trying to argue here. The boost gives you up to 49 levels. Leveling to 50 does the same, it just takes longer. The boost does not give you anything that cannot be otherwise achieved except taking less time.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Buying gear only lets you get it faster. It doesn't give you anything that isn't otherwise achievable with reasonable effort. Is buying gear pay to win?
    Well, we agree then. What's your point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Should point out that in the majority of games that are "pay 2 win" the stuff you can buy with actual money can also be earned in game.

    Again, if it was any other MMO doing it, there would be no discussion, it would be called p2w. Since this is WoW, people are willing to really dig in and defend it.
    Technically, yes, but it typically takes an unreasonably large amount of time to do so, making the slow path not a viable route for the vast majority of players.

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