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  1. #801
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    And I'm just going to be the prick and say, you aren't buying gold from Blizzard, though. This is why I don't see the token as P2W.
    Blizzard is facilitating the transaction and condoning it, that's what I don't like. But I get why they did it, fraud and botting from gold farmers, and pragmatically I think it was probably the right decision.

  2. #802
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Blizzard is facilitating the transaction and condoning it, that's what I don't like. But I get why they did it, fraud and botting from gold farmers, and pragmatically I think it was probably the right decision.
    Thank god there isn't any botting anymore....

  3. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Blizzard is facilitating the transaction and condoning it, that's what I don't like. But I get why they did it, fraud and botting from gold farmers, and pragmatically I think it was probably the right decision.
    Aye. People may not like it, but it was either that, or let the gold sellers run rampant like they used to.
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  4. #804
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    I never got the mentality that if you can't fix a problem 100% its not worth doing at all. If you removed the token you would stop a massive amount of people buying gold with money. Yes not all of them but the grand majority will not risk their accounts.
    You'd also have a sway of people leaving the game because they can no longer play for "free", with these people also being WoW's highest subscription payers. There's not many things I can say with absolute certainty are never going to happen, but the WoW token being removed is one of them.

    I've already given my stance on P2W multiple times this thread, but in addition to what I've previously said, I'll say this: P2W will only be an issue for me if they add things to the store that offer player-power that simply isn't obtainable in-game. Something like a store mount that goes beyond 310%, or an armour piece that's better than everything in-game.

    If that were to ever happen, I'd be the first to say WoW is P2W.
    Last edited by Toybox; 2021-06-04 at 07:42 PM.

  5. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Thank god there isn't any botting anymore....
    Token or no token, the botting will be there as long as there are lazy people believing they are entitled to do it because else they lose out on things when sleeping or working, or losing out on their possible income. Even with the new system, bot creators just make new systems too.
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  6. #806
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Hm...bit of an evasive manoeuvre imho. And what is this "Method cheating by buying gold" all about? It is also an extra weird example, because Limit won the last World First, right? So no matter how much Method "paid", they didn't "win". So much for "pay to win"

    But let me ask you directly: Do you still play that p2w game that you so despise? Does it offer so much more that you enjoy that you can look the other way?



    Glad for this answer, because it tells me the problem is parts of the community. No matter what you think about it being better in 2205. People are shit, will cheat and do whatever it takes to get ahead. This is why I think removing the token will solve nothing.
    I don't really get the mentality of "well things are shit but your willing to bare it so let them be shit" either to be blunt.

  7. #807
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Let's not bring in the politics on this. Some should just make fair work contracts. Now, back to the topic.
    I don't necessarily think it's "politics" to observe that if the proposed solution is, "just hire more GMs" that said GMs aren't exactly something that they'd be able to materialize from thin air. Arguments on forums tend to promote these types of solutions then once you begin to bring up pesky factors such as "reality" they immediately retract to, "well it's just a suggestion." I don't think this really helps move things along...but that's just me.

  8. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    You'd also have a sway of people leaving the game because they can no longer play for "free", with these people also being WoW's highest subscription payers. There's not many things I can say with absolute certainty are never going to happen, but the WoW token being removed is one of them.

    I've already given my stance on P2W multiple times this thread, but in addition to what I've previously said, I'll say this: P2W will only be an issue for me if they add things to the store that offer player-power that simply isn't obtainable in-game. Something like a store mount that goes beyond 310%, or an armour piece that's better than everything in-game.

    If that were to ever happen, I'd be the first to say WoW is P2W.
    Bolded for the truth. This is exactly what pay to win is and would be. Period.
    No idea why this thread is still going on when an undisputed fact has been laid out for the naysayers to see.
    Now people argue about gold and boosting, which are services provided by players, bought by players. It has nothing to do with pay to win, because by this logic super mario is pay to win.
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  9. #809
    Gold farmer botting is far less prevalent than it used to be. It still exists, and farmed gold is still cheaper than selling a token, but most players sell the token anyway, because there's no chance of getting banned for it.

  10. #810
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Yeah, thanks for proving my point. So, if Blizzard started selling full mythic raids set in the store, you would have no issues with it, wouldn't you? After all, you aren't "winning" anything, you could have got those items through regular gameplay anyway, right?
    Did you read my post? I literally called buying it losing. Try again, see if you can spot it.

    But you are right, I don't mind it, let those people spend their money on gear that is useless in a few months so they get to enjoy current content at full power, what is it to you? I've said this a million times in the past, you are not special just because you've "earned" something the hard way in a game, nor does it makes you better than anyone or entitled to things they aren't. Unless you literally compete for world firsts, you are just grinding gear until the skill cap is lowered sufficiently for you to clear the next difficulty content along with everyone else.

  11. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    Did you read my post? I literally called buying it losing. Try again, see if you can spot it.

    But you are right, I don't mind it, let those people spend their money on gear that is useless in a few months so they get to enjoy current content at full power, what is it to you? I've said this a million times in the past, you are not special just because you've "earned" something the hard way in a game, nor does it makes you better than anyone or entitled to things they aren't. Unless you literally compete for world firsts, you are just grinding gear until the skill cap is lowered sufficiently for you to clear the next difficulty content along with everyone else.
    At least you are being honest about letting WoW go down the proverbial slippery slope of P2W. You heard it here first bois, some posters are OK with selling full mythic sets in the store!
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  12. #812
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuppy View Post
    Bolded for the truth. This is exactly what pay to win is and would be. Period.
    No idea why this thread is still going on when an undisputed fact has been laid out for the naysayers to see.
    Now people argue about gold and boosting, which are services provided by players, bought by players. It has nothing to do with pay to win, because by this logic super mario is pay to win.
    Because nothing in game allows you to skip 50 levels of content so therefore the paid character boost is pay to win by that very definition.

  13. #813
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Because nothing in game allows you to skip 50 levels of content so therefore the paid character boost is pay to win by that very definition.
    No, because you can get those levels without significantly out of line effort. The boost only lets you get them faster. It doesn't give you anything that isn't otherwise achievable with reasonable effort.

  14. #814
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, because you can get those levels without significantly out of line effort. The boost only lets you get them faster. It doesn't give you anything that isn't otherwise achievable with reasonable effort.
    Completely disregarding what I said, as usual. I said that there is no way to skip 50 fucking levels of content like the boost does. You cannot achieve that in game and therefore by the definition given by other people, that classifies as p2w since you are buying player power that can't be achieved in game as nothing lets you skip that much content in one fell swoop.

  15. #815
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, because you can get those levels without significantly out of line effort. The boost only lets you get them faster. It doesn't give you anything that isn't otherwise achievable with reasonable effort.
    Buying gear only lets you get it faster. It doesn't give you anything that isn't otherwise achievable with reasonable effort. Is buying gear pay to win?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  16. #816
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuppy View Post
    Bolded for the truth. This is exactly what pay to win is and would be. Period.
    No idea why this thread is still going on when an undisputed fact has been laid out for the naysayers to see.
    Now people argue about gold and boosting, which are services provided by players, bought by players. It has nothing to do with pay to win, because by this logic super mario is pay to win.
    Should point out that in the majority of games that are "pay 2 win" the stuff you can buy with actual money can also be earned in game.

    Again, if it was any other MMO doing it, there would be no discussion, it would be called p2w. Since this is WoW, people are willing to really dig in and defend it.
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  17. #817
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Completely disregarding what I said, as usual. I said that there is no way to skip 50 fucking levels of content like the boost does. You cannot achieve that in game and therefore by the definition given by other people, that classifies as p2w since you are buying player power that can't be achieved in game as nothing lets you skip that much content in one fell swoop.
    Which means it isn't P2W since it can be achieved in game. I'm not sure what you're even trying to argue here. The boost gives you up to 49 levels. Leveling to 50 does the same, it just takes longer. The boost does not give you anything that cannot be otherwise achieved except taking less time.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Buying gear only lets you get it faster. It doesn't give you anything that isn't otherwise achievable with reasonable effort. Is buying gear pay to win?
    Well, we agree then. What's your point?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Should point out that in the majority of games that are "pay 2 win" the stuff you can buy with actual money can also be earned in game.

    Again, if it was any other MMO doing it, there would be no discussion, it would be called p2w. Since this is WoW, people are willing to really dig in and defend it.
    Technically, yes, but it typically takes an unreasonably large amount of time to do so, making the slow path not a viable route for the vast majority of players.

  18. #818
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Well, we agree then. What's your point?
    If we agree why are you saying you don't see the level boost as pay to win to another poster?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  19. #819
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Which means it isn't P2W since it can be achieved in game. I'm not sure what you're even trying to argue here. The boost gives you up to 49 levels. Leveling to 50 does the same, it just takes longer. The boost does not give you anything that cannot be otherwise achieved except taking less time.



    Well, we agree then. What's your point?
    There is no way you are actually this fucking dense. Absolutely nothing in WoW allows you to jump straight to level 50 from level 1 outside of the paid character boost. Which means it is p2w. By your asinine logic, p2w just doesn't exist AT ALL. Your latest comment proves you're not willing or interested in having a mature and logical conversation about this topic.

  20. #820
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    If we agree why are you saying you don't see the level boost as pay to win to another poster?
    Because you didn't make an argument on whether it was P2W in your post.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    There is no way you are actually this fucking dense. Absolutely nothing in WoW allows you to jump straight to level 50 from level 1 outside of the paid character boost. Which means it is p2w. By your asinine logic, p2w just doesn't exist AT ALL. Your latest comment proves you're not willing or interested in having a mature and logical conversation about this topic.
    I explained my rationale. You refuse to even consider it and just endlessly repeat your original claim. Which of us is immature here?

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