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  1. #921
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Your do realize that this is literally what you can do right now, yes? Cranted, it's not instant, but full hc clear in 60 min is possible.

    Then it's not literally then, is it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    I mean you buy token take to booster get CE... sure it might be a dozen tokens but its the same effect. Understanding that just because something has a single degree of separation is still related isn't exactly some massive feat of deductive reasoning...

    Yeah, I get it. As does everybody else for the 100th time this thread has been started. Still not pay 2 win though.
    47 pages, my dear Watson. The only massive feats of reasoning here is 47 pages of people incessantly trying to navigate their mental hurdles.
    Last edited by KOUNTERPARTS; 2021-06-06 at 11:10 AM.

  2. #922
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFawlty View Post
    Gold was not an issue yet its a significant enough issue for people to pay real money for it. A non sensical argument.

    Anything in game can now be bought providing Blizzard get their cut. Tokens are cheating, cause a conflict of interest and in game inflation.
    Because people always need more or want more. A common reaction in games.

    And we're back at, if the tokens are cheating, then P2W has been existing since TCG was added.

    Boost prices exploded because of the token. P2W was no longer exclusive to people gambling.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  3. #923
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    Then it's not literally then, is it?





    Yeah, I get it. As does everybody else for the 100th time this thread has been started. Still not pay 2 win though.
    47 pages, my dear Watson. The only massive feats of reasoning here is 47 pages of people incessantly trying to navigate their mental hurdles.
    Rationalization is a hell of a drug I guess... you can conceptualize spending real money then buying a currency then buying a service with that token but you can rationalize its not actually that because you find it repellent is my guess?

    If only you were a ork in warhammer 40k. You would be a one ork walking tech tree.

  4. #924
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuppy View Post
    No.
    This is not a question of opinion. It's simply pay to win, or not pay and win. There is absolutely no inbetween.
    Lol.

    The win criteria for a pvp player is different from the win criteria of a raider.

    For me winning in WoW is getting CE and I can get that with real money. So for me WoW is pay to win.

  5. #925
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Because people always need more or want more. A common reaction in games.

    And we're back at, if the tokens are cheating, then P2W has been existing since TCG was added.

    Boost prices exploded because of the token. P2W was no longer exclusive to people gambling.
    So it is cheating, causes a conflict of interest and inflation.

  6. #926
    Quote Originally Posted by MrFawlty View Post
    Tokens are cheating, cause a conflict of interest and in game inflation.
    tokens did not create inflation... the dont MAKE gold, they only move it around, which was happening before token anyway...

    garrisons created huge inflation, bcs people could MAKE tons of gold out of nothing, for few minutes of time instead of hours of farming,

  7. #927
    Correct, tokens have no inflationary effect at all. Doesn't mean selling them isn't P2W, but they don't impact the economy.

  8. #928
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Correct, tokens have no inflationary effect at all. Doesn't mean selling them isn't P2W, but they don't impact the economy.
    Doesn't that just mean that WoW is trade to win? Because you can trade for services even with out paying real money. The gold and services all come from the same source. The players.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  9. #929
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Correct, tokens have no inflationary effect at all. Doesn't mean selling them isn't P2W, but they don't impact the economy.
    I always believe that the prices for the Tokens are manipulated by Blizzard, according to whatever they think is ok....But still, is something i like to imagine and maybe its not true. Is just that the price went skyrocket after they implemented the Account Balance using tokens long time ago.

    But still WoW is one of the most P2W games that have ever existed. Elder Scrolls Online has a shop and Crown Cates, but that stuff doesnt pay for power, the items in WoW do. People sell tokens just for the sake of buying equipment in order to raid and even worst....They pay gold to even enter the raid. That is a real shame, another good reason i stop doing raids after CATA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Doesn't that just mean that WoW is trade to win? Because you can trade for services even with out paying real money. The gold and services all come from the same source. The players.
    And those players demand gold for Raid entrance, clearance and even drops. They charge a lot of gold that they later use for Account Balance + Game Time + Game Store items.

    WoW is a big P2W game.

  10. #930
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
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    Buying currency to buy boosts, I guess that's p2w. In the modern era.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  11. #931
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    And those players demand gold for Raid entrance, clearance and even drops. They charge a lot of gold that they later use for Account Balance + Game Time + Game Store items. WoW is a big P2W game.
    So a microtransaction. Game time or Blizzard Dollars doesn't let you win at anything. Buying gold with a token just gets you gold. You don't automatically get a boost. You don't automatically get loot. Some players have always demanded gold, or other, restrictions prior to being invited to raids. Prior to personal loot players created elaborate systems to "buy" loot during a raid run. EPGP, DKP, Loot councils, Auction runs.

    That would mean that WoW has always been pay to win and not something that started with the token right? Because the token didn't give anything new in that regards.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  12. #932
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So a microtransaction. Game time or Blizzard Dollars doesn't let you win at anything. Buying gold with a token just gets you gold. You don't automatically get a boost. You don't automatically get loot. Some players have always demanded gold, or other, restrictions prior to being invited to raids. Prior to personal loot players created elaborate systems to "buy" loot during a raid run. EPGP, DKP, Loot councils, Auction runs.

    That would mean that WoW has always been pay to win and not something that started with the token right? Because the token didn't give anything new in that regards.
    So, paying tons of money (From WoW tokens and turned into gold) to enter a raid, get armor/weapons, then do the endgame content easily with that equipment, then repeat the process but now for PVP. Start winning PvP games, because your paid weapons/armor (Brought by Gold/Money) while people are not able to even harm you is not P2W?.....Are you sure is not?

  13. #933
    You can use money to buy gold to get full boosts and best gear in game. You aren't buying it off a vendor like some other P2W mmo's and therefore the gear you get would be random from the pool available, but yeah I can easily see the argument it's P2W.

  14. #934
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    So, paying tons of money (From WoW tokens and turned into gold) to enter a raid, get armor/weapons, then do the endgame content easily with that equipment, then repeat the process but now for PVP. Start winning PvP games, because your paid weapons/armor (Brought by Gold/Money) while people are not able to even harm you is not P2W?.....Are you sure is not?
    You aren't using real money to win though. You are using gold. All of what you describe is possible by simply playing the Auction House or other means of earning gold. Or if you still have a large stock pile from WoD and Legion. Look at the AH mount. Do you really think most people used tokens to buy that? That they paid thousands of dollars for the mount?

    Gold allows you to do all sorts of things in the game. The token just takes gold that someone earned and gives it to you. If no one one offers up their gold there is no way for you to trade your money for gold. A player supplied service with player supplied gold is not pay to win. It is just using the game systems as they were designed. To trade gold for stuff.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  15. #935
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    And those players demand gold for Raid entrance, clearance and even drops. They charge a lot of gold that they later use for Account Balance + Game Time + Game Store items.

    WoW is a big P2W game.
    But what does paying RL money get you that someone who doesn't can't get?
    Because gold is available to earn in-game, you don't need token for it

  16. #936
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You aren't using real money to win though. You are using gold. All of what you describe is possible by simply playing the Auction House or other means of earning gold. Or if you still have a large stock pile from WoD and Legion. Look at the AH mount. Do you really think most people used tokens to buy that? That they paid thousands of dollars for the mount?

    Gold allows you to do all sorts of things in the game. The token just takes gold that someone earned and gives it to you. If no one one offers up their gold there is no way for you to trade your money for gold. A player supplied service with player supplied gold is not pay to win. It is just using the game systems as they were designed. To trade gold for stuff.
    this is how P2W games work. They take your money, convert it to an currency, you use currency to buy BiS items. most of these P2W games allow you go get said currency without paying as well, doesn't make them less P2W.

  17. #937
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You aren't using real money to win though. You are using gold. All of what you describe is possible by simply playing the Auction House or other means of earning gold. Or if you still have a large stock pile from WoD and Legion. Look at the AH mount. Do you really think most people used tokens to buy that? That they paid thousands of dollars for the mount?

    Gold allows you to do all sorts of things in the game. The token just takes gold that someone earned and gives it to you. If no one one offers up their gold there is no way for you to trade your money for gold. A player supplied service with player supplied gold is not pay to win. It is just using the game systems as they were designed. To trade gold for stuff.
    Dude please....for the love of god....Cant you see where that gold is coming from?....That is right, Tokens. With that gold, that you paid by selling your tokens, you are buying mounts, carries (PVP and PVE), enchantments, potions....you call it!, What ever is in the AH. Is P2W!!.

    You just used money to get a powerful advantage over other people, it doesnt matter if they farmed the gold or what ever, You paid US Dollars to get tons of gold and Win the game.....Is that too hard to you to understand, or are you a WoW Yes-Man?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    this is how P2W games work. They take your money, convert it to an currency, you use currency to buy BiS items. most of these P2W games allow you go get said currency without paying as well, doesn't make them less P2W.
    Exactly!. Thanks for making that clear for this guy.

  18. #938
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    this is how P2W games work. They take your money, convert it to an currency, you use currency to buy BiS items. most of these P2W games allow you go get said currency without paying as well, doesn't make them less P2W.
    Who is supplying those services and items though. The players or the developers? How can something be pay to win if you can pay and win nothing. Or want to pay but not be able to. Or pay and buy goblin gliders. Or any other number of possibilities that having gold allows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Dude please....for the love of god....Cant you see where that gold is coming from?....That is right, Tokens. With that gold, that you paid by selling your tokens, you are buying mounts, carries (PVP and PVE), enchantments, potions....you call it!, What ever is in the AH. Is P2W!!.
    The gold comes from players not tokens. A token does not create gold. Using your definition of pay to win isn't simply paying a subscription and box price make the game pay to win? Does buy a goblin glider from the AH with a token allow you to win anything? Or is it a micro transaction? Or are you going to try and claim that all microtransactions are pay to win?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  19. #939
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Who is supplying those services and items though. The players or the developers? How can something be pay to win if you can pay and win nothing. Or want to pay but not be able to. Or pay and buy goblin gliders. Or any other number of possibilities that having gold allows.
    I do see the argument that it's a player supplied way to win, not a developer, as mentioned in previous post, it's not a developer putting it on a vendor. But regardless you can still use RL currency to get BIS items with no effort.

  20. #940
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Who is supplying those services and items though. The players or the developers? How can something be pay to win if you can pay and win nothing. Or want to pay but not be able to. Or pay and buy goblin gliders. Or any other number of possibilities that having gold allows.

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    The gold comes from players not tokens. A token does not create gold. Using your definition of pay to win isn't simply paying a subscription and box price make the game pay to win? Does buy a goblin glider from the AH with a token allow you to win anything? Or is it a micro transaction? Or are you going to try and claim that all microtransactions are pay to win?
    And who do you think is getting those US Dollars?. The player?...Nop, Blizzard. That is called Pay To Win my friend.

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    rhorle, I'm starting to think there is something, really wrong with you. You defend Blizzard like if you where defending your mother. Blizzard has been playing the Pay to Win card long time ago. They even tried to do that in Diablo 3 with the Real Money AH.

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