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  1. #1561
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    So if I bought one token of gold 2 years ago, but used 250k of the gold I farmed myself to buy a boost now, thats pay 2 win by some peoples definition. Thats the fucked up logic people are using.

    Which is wrong, because WoW do not use a direct transaction for power, so by definition, its not pay 2 win.

    It is as easy as that. No amount of mental gymnastics can change that.
    That is why, about 70 pages or so ago, that people started using 'indirect P2W'.
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  2. #1562
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    You can always pay someone else to play any game for you. This is not any kind of meaningful argument.
    No, that is illegal, so using that as an argument is completely ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    you have to be a moron to of said .

  3. #1563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
    I mean, it does. You can buy carries in game with gold without ever paying money. Carries aren't exclusive to token buyers.
    The term 'indirect P2W' was brought up early in the thread by someone else, which covers people's argument of the Token being P2W but also fulfills the argument of the TCG being P2W if the term is correctly used, but the term itself is not that correct, as the definitions state that P2W is gaining the advantage from the developer (which would clearly mean directly). If the term 'indirect' was made invalid, then the token would just be tradeable game-time, its existence removes the dangers of gold sellers and game-time sellers (and the scammers including) unless you specifically seek those out still. Just like TCG loot would just be tradeable products between other players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Hiring someone to play on your account is not illegal, neither is buying gold from 3rd party. TOS is not the law. Just "opinion" of developers.
    Well, the ToS is the law within the game, if you break it, you remove your rights to the game.
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  4. #1564
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    No, that is illegal, so using that as an argument is completely ridiculous.
    No, it's not. Terms of service of some video games prohibit account sharing, but nothing prohibits you paying someone to play the game for you.

    But to say it's illegal? Is watching your sister play a game on the couch illegal? If not, it's certainly not illegal.

    I still what to know how you think having a character worse than people have had for 18 months is a competitive advantage..

  5. #1565
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    No, it's not. Terms of service of some video games prohibit account sharing, but nothing prohibits you paying someone to play the game for you.

    But to say it's illegal? Is watching your sister play a game on the couch illegal? If not, it's certainly not illegal.
    Paying someone to play the game for you is literally EXACTLY what account sharing is. Watching someone play a game is not illegal, no. Why would you think it is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Well, the ToS is the law within the game, if you break it, you remove your rights to the game.
    Just wanted to jump in and support this by saying the term "illegal" is NOT limited to criminal law, and even Webster (i think it was webster?) have added an additional definition specifically to include "breaking rules, for example in games". I dont know where this idea that the term "illegal" only referred to criminal law came from...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    I still what to know how you think having a character worse than people have had for 18 months is a competitive advantage..
    I just want to know why you think every single person has characters already? its such a strange stance to take........like no new player EVER joins the game, its just a one way ticket and everyone has one main, thats max level, and thats all they will ever have..........
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    you have to be a moron to of said .

  6. #1566
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Nope. You stated 150,000 gold per week and changed it later. Doing something on a main and the alt will be the same because world content doesn't change. I've already told you that there is no reason to expect alts to be have low gear 6 months into Shadowlands. Have you even played the expansion to know how easy it is to obtain gear? You keep trying to find any little thing you can to dismiss the entire thing.

    I never failed to acknowledge that it equates to 25 hours per week. Just because I didn't spell that out didn't mean I failed. Lol. Stop trying to find every little thing to say "Gotcha". I never said it would take "no time" in order to do. You asked how an average player could do it "easily". Once you level the alts up it can easily be done. Easy doesn't mean minimal time per week. Doing callings is relatively easy.
    You keep changing the goal posts. 6 times you have been proven wrong and you keep going. What's next? The time is wrong because all my guys are 215 ilvl at least? You are done buddy. No one believes you because you have been proven wrong with math. It's just ridiculous that you even continue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    An 8-hour shift sitting in a chair watching a computer screen is loads easier then a 8-hour shift working as a lumber jack. Callings are easy to do. If you've played the game recently you would know this. Repeating something easy is also easy to do. I never claimed that it wouldn't take a lot of time only that 20 mins was not extremely generous.
    LoL
    Like I mean WTF LOL
    Now we are bringing lumber jacks in to weather or not working 35 hours for 15 bucks is slavery?

    Respect to all of you people who use their hands to make a buck. I envy you because I'm fucking useless and fixing making creating anything. I need you and I am in no way saying you are shit.

    But let's be real. 35 hours of "easy" content before you can actually play the game is slavery. I get paid low by world standards but my time is worth 43.63 an hour. Are you saying that your easy way of getting gold that isn't even the amount needed to buy 1 single token isn't slavery? If you are then prove it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The number only became irrelevant when you had nothing else to discredit what I said. You originally stated 150k which wasn't the price of a token at that time. The WoW token is 190k currently and was mid 180's yesterday. Because I bought a token. World Content doesn't scale and you can easily out gear it. 170 is ridiculously low for 6 months into the expansion.

    I have never said the time investment was not substantial. You keep fixating on things that was never said as if it proves the entire thing is invalid. Only a few others have pointed it out who parrot almost exactly what you keep arguing. Suspicious no? One of them even acted as if they've argued the point before when they haven't. Weird no?

    Doing callings over multiple character is an easy way to earn gold. Do you think that is hard to do? What skill does it take? What makes it hard? Do you routinely have a challenging time doing your daily callings? Have you struggled to gear past 190 in the game? Just because it takes a while to do does not mean it is also hard to do.

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    Hiow can you catch up if you haven't "Won" 50 levels? That is the advantage. There has never been anything about definitions for pay to win that require relevant content as part of it.

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    Wow. That went over your head. Sitting at a screen for an 8 hour shift was not talking about playing WoW. It was talking about a job like a security guard that watches a computer monitor their entire shift and how that is objectively easier then a job like a lumber jack that requires high physical labor in a dangerous environment. It isn't dishonest to use an example of things that are easy even though it is over a long period of time when it is relevant to the discussion.
    You keep calming it is easy to callings farm a token weekly yet it is been proven mathematically wrong by multiple users.

    Now you persist in the "if they at a computer they ain't working hard" narrative. Using your own examples please tell me the last time a lumberjack got shot while working.

    You have been proven wrong at every turn. You dodge and pivot only to be proven wrong time after time. Do you even play wow?

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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Ok so you consider being a computer programmer to be "objectively easier" than a Lumberjack? What about a drone operator Vs a Lumberjack? Is being a Drone operator objectively easier? I mean they "just sit in front of a computer screen"...One is clearly objectively more physically demanding, but to claim one is "objectively easier" than the other is not accurate, even in the scenario you presented with a Security Officer Vs a Lumberjack - most security jobs are night shift, and working nights is very challenging. It also brings with it additional stress, health issues, and depending on the job, could have very high levels of responsibility and pressure.
    When was the last time a lumberjack was shot on the job?

    Trying to compare a jobs stress is stupid and you make a good point. Personally, as a professional, I can guarantee that I'm not as pysical as a lumberjack but they have no idea what stress is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Notice how you said stretches it. Pay to win is Pay to win. You can't just subjectively remove things because you personally don't see a problem with them. I also don't have a problem with the level boosts but they are still technically pay to win according to the usual definitions. If Blizzard sold mythic raid gear only after hall of fame closed is it still pay to win? Others earned it likely months before the option is available. To say you "won" that gear is laughable. Right?

    But you'll make some excuse up for why winning at end game is competently different. Leave the feelings out of it. Would gaining 60 levels be pay to win? Would going from 50 to 60 be pay to win? Would gaining 40 ranks of Renown be pay to win? Those all encompass levels. If buying levels in one regard is not pay to win then it has to be in all regards right? Because it is the same power being bought.

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    So you get it. Just because it takes you 3.5 to 5 hours a day to do easy things does not mean it is hard.
    Whether or not the individual process is easy or not is not the point. Did you know that cutting down a tree is pretty fucking easy? Cutting down 100 isnt.

    You have been caught. By your own references you have proven that doing dailies for 3.5 hours a day is In fact difficult.

    I will wait for my apology

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    An 8-hour shift sitting in a chair watching a computer screen is loads easier then a 8-hour shift working as a lumber jack. Callings are easy to do. If you've played the game recently you would know this. Repeating something easy is also easy to do. I never claimed that it wouldn't take a lot of time only that 20 mins was not extremely generous.
    And that has nothing to do with difficulty. A lot of things are easy. Doing them for 8 hours is not.

    You have been proven wrong on 7 times and you continue spouting nonesense.

    Lumberjacks this. Proven wrong.
    It's easy to make gold. Proven wrong.
    You can make a tokens worth of gold in a week. Proven wrong..
    People are out to get you: proven wrong.

    At this point it's embarrassing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Pay to win has never required end game content. You can still gain power advantages at any level with paying to win. Buying the advantage of 50 levels directly from Blizzard is paying to win.
    Then why are you advocating that's it's easy to get token gold by doing "easy" content. I am still waiting for your guide I. How to do it

    Personally I think you are full of shit and you bought a boost for TBCC

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The number only became irrelevant when you had nothing else to discredit what I said. You originally stated 150k which wasn't the price of a token at that time. The WoW token is 190k currently and was mid 180's yesterday. Because I bought a token. World Content doesn't scale and you can easily out gear it. 170 is ridiculously low for 6 months into the expansion.

    I have never said the time investment was not substantial. You keep fixating on things that was never said as if it proves the entire thing is invalid. Only a few others have pointed it out who parrot almost exactly what you keep arguing. Suspicious no? One of them even acted as if they've argued the point before when they haven't. Weird no?

    Doing callings over multiple character is an easy way to earn gold. Do you think that is hard to do? What skill does it take? What makes it hard? Do you routinely have a challenging time doing your daily callings? Have you struggled to gear past 190 in the game? Just because it takes a while to do does not mean it is also hard to do.

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    Hiow can you catch up if you haven't "Won" 50 levels? That is the advantage. There has never been anything about definitions for pay to win that require relevant content as part of it.

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    Wow. That went over your head. Sitting at a screen for an 8 hour shift was not talking about playing WoW. It was talking about a job like a security guard that watches a computer monitor their entire shift and how that is objectively easier then a job like a lumber jack that requires high physical labor in a dangerous environment. It isn't dishonest to use an example of things that are easy even though it is over a long period of time when it is relevant to the discussion.
    NO.

    You were the one who mentioned token price and then when proven wrong adjusted to 150k.

    You have been demolished with logic by 6 users and you twist and turn and lie and try to create a new narrative to twist into your words.

    NO.

    You have been proven to be a liar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Ok so you consider being a computer programmer to be "objectively easier" than a Lumberjack? What about a drone operator Vs a Lumberjack? Is being a Drone operator objectively easier? I mean they "just sit in front of a computer screen"...One is clearly objectively more physically demanding, but to claim one is "objectively easier" than the other is not accurate, even in the scenario you presented with a Security Officer Vs a Lumberjack - most security jobs are night shift, and working nights is very challenging. It also brings with it additional stress, health issues, and depending on the job, could have very high levels of responsibility and pressure.
    You are right. Does a security guard even have to heavy objects. Dies a lumberjack even get shot at?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Notice how you said stretches it. Pay to win is Pay to win. You can't just subjectively remove things because you personally don't see a problem with them. I also don't have a problem with the level boosts but they are still technically pay to win according to the usual definitions. If Blizzard sold mythic raid gear only after hall of fame closed is it still pay to win? Others earned it likely months before the option is available. To say you "won" that gear is laughable. Right?

    But you'll make some excuse up for why winning at end game is competently different. Leave the feelings out of it. Would gaining 60 levels be pay to win? Would going from 50 to 60 be pay to win? Would gaining 40 ranks of Renown be pay to win? Those all encompass levels. If buying levels in one regard is not pay to win then it has to be in all regards right? Because it is the same power being bought.

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    So you get it. Just because it takes you 3.5 to 5 hours a day to do easy things does not mean it is hard.
    It is if your 5 hours a day turns into 35 hours a week. Forever. That's called a full time job.

    To be flush with gold and not pay for your sub you have to take on a full time job. Yeah, that not easy. That is slavery. 15 divided by 35 hours is 43 cents an hour. You are done

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    How does a calling get harder just because you've done it on four characters already? What part of the game changes to make it more difficult?
    The calling isn't harder. The will to do it again for 15 characters gets harder. Turning from a "chore" to a full time job makes it harder. Paying yourself I to slavery just to save 15 bucks makes it hard.

    Every day you are doing easy content doing it for 7 days is hard doing it month on moth is difficult
    .
    Most Dane people will just pay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Yes, because an argument can be made that who gives a shit about gear? Is getting BiS winning? Maybe to you, probably not to them.



    My definition is simple, can you buy anything that you can't get in game?



    By definition all games you pay for are p2w



    To you
    Yes. You can buy a skip to lvl 58. There is nothing in game that lets you do that.

    Ty for clearing it up. Buying a boost is P2W by your win definition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohvul View Post
    Imagine being in a racecar and complaining the guy you're up against spent more money than you learning how to drive
    Imagine being in a racecar where the goal was to finish and then some guy spent 200 bucks to be 58 laps ahead of you.

    Think before u post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    You can always pay someone else to play any game for you. This is not any kind of meaningful argument.

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    So to be clear, you made an example that would literally never happen for multiple reasons and you think that's somehow comparable?

    Also, the more correct example is the boxed copy of a game letting you skip having to play through the entirety of a previous game to unlock it.
    So breaking the law is your answer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    No, it's not. Terms of service of some video games prohibit account sharing, but nothing prohibits you paying someone to play the game for you.

    But to say it's illegal? Is watching your sister play a game on the couch illegal? If not, it's certainly not illegal.

    I still what to know how you think having a character worse than people have had for 18 months is a competitive advantage..
    Read the ToS again please. What you have described breaks the contract. Breaking a contract is illegal

    Try again buddy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  7. #1567
    I mean when people talk about a game being P2W, they don’t mean that you actually pay to get a “I WIN BUTTON”, but rather how these type of games use micro transactions as a way to enhance your chances at winning the game compared to someone who does not acquire them. Now, I only wanna focus on retail for a second here and the use of wow tokens which in my opinion are completely P2W. Yes, gold doesn’t automatically mean you will become a MDI champion, but it will certainly represent a big advantage over people that decide not to buy gold. Why? Because these days gold can be used to get good gear in no time, and by good gear I mean in the 215+ range. You can easily get there by buying a heroic boost and a +15 key with gold. Now, people might say that these kind of players are just skipping ahead to current content and gear is irrelevant when doing M+ or arena, but you can’t deny the fact that WoW is a very gear oriented game, and let’s be honest it is not necessarily a hard game. All it takes is some YouTube videos to do decent damage and not to die to mechanics. So, in this case you can have a good rookie fire mage at 203 vs a mediocre boosted fire mage at 210 and the boosted mage will always do more dps. So, you could essentially say the boosted mage bought WoW tokens to get a clear advantage on the game and thus “winning”, something that is quite typical of a mobile game which is basically what retail WoW has become. Now, I don’t have a problem with micro transactions as whole, like getting skins or mounts or pets, but when money can actually get you gear that dictates how well you can perform in the game, well then that is when the game becomes a joke tbh.

  8. #1568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montypoot View Post
    I mean when people talk about a game being P2W, they don’t mean that you actually pay to get a “I WIN BUTTON”, but rather how these type of games use micro transactions as a way to enhance your chances at winning the game compared to someone who does not acquire them. Now, I only wanna focus on retail for a second here and the use of wow tokens which in my opinion are completely P2W. Yes, gold doesn’t automatically mean you will become a MDI champion, but it will certainly represent a big advantage over people that decide not to buy gold. Why? Because these days gold can be used to get good gear in no time, and by good gear I mean in the 215+ range. You can easily get there by buying a heroic boost and a +15 key with gold. Now, people might say that these kind of players are just skipping ahead to current content and gear is irrelevant when doing M+ or arena, but you can’t deny the fact that WoW is a very gear oriented game, and let’s be honest it is not necessarily a hard game. All it takes is some YouTube videos to do decent damage and not to die to mechanics. So, in this case you can have a good rookie fire mage at 203 vs a mediocre boosted fire mage at 210 and the boosted mage will always do more dps. So, you could essentially say the boosted mage bought WoW tokens to get a clear advantage on the game and thus “winning”, something that is quite typical of a mobile game which is basically what retail WoW has become. Now, I don’t have a problem with micro transactions as whole, like getting skins or mounts or pets, but when money can actually get you gear that dictates how well you can perform in the game, well then that is when the game becomes a joke tbh.
    And what if I paid those boosters even more gold to not boost you? What did you gain?
    You can buy a lvl boost, and that is the closest thing of p2w here. I cant pay blizzard not to boost your char.
    You can also sell your own body to get a boost in a raid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pie Eater View Post
    Have you read the planned frost mage "nerfs" ?!? It's like nerfing a hangman's rope by coloring it blue.
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  9. #1569
    You can tell that people are grasping at straws on this P2W argument when they have to invent a new term to make it sound like they have an argument. The literal first google entry for "indirect pay to win" is MMO-Champion.

    Maybe in the next twenty pages they will decide to use "non-sponsored indirect pay to win" to further blur what pay to win means.

  10. #1570
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    That is why, about 70 pages or so ago, that people started using 'indirect P2W'.
    So not p2w.

    If your guild was struggling on Mistress Sasszine in ToS, and blizzard offered a way to buy so she started with 1 hp each reset if in guildgroup, that would be p2w.

    If you buy a token. Well, thats just gold. Not p2w. The definition is simple.

    If people are making up decisions, there is no need to even discuss. There is one definition. Everything else is just personal interpretations.


    Quote Originally Posted by TidalConflux View Post
    You can tell that people are grasping at straws on this P2W argument when they have to invent a new term to make it sound like they have an argument. The literal first google entry for "indirect pay to win" is MMO-Champion.

    Maybe in the next twenty pages they will decide to use "non-sponsored indirect pay to win" to further blur what pay to win means.
    Spot on.

    "buying boost to level 50 is pAyTwOwIn"

    Yep, thats where we are at.
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  11. #1571
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Yep, Spot on.

    "buying boost to level 50 is pAyTwOwIn"

    hats where we are at.
    At this rate, how long until I can argue that Blizzard needs to remove gold, the auction house, and gear because as long as these exist -- 'non-sponsored indirect illegal pay 2 win" will exist?

    Because atm -- indirect pay to win is a brand new term and it means nothing, so it basically can mean whatever is useful in the argument?

  12. #1572
    Quote Originally Posted by Imphrazel View Post
    What do you guys think? Is WoW really pay to win nowadays or am I just over interpreting something in this?
    No, wow is NOT p2win cause there is no buy-able WIN-Condition in wow. if you wanna see a p2win game look at heartstone

  13. #1573
    Quote Originally Posted by tmamass View Post
    No, wow is NOT p2win cause there is no buy-able WIN-Condition in wow. if you wanna see a p2win game look at hearthstone
    Welcome to every card game of that sort.

  14. #1574
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    For the 500th time in this thread alone, the phrase P2W does not require something to be a "win" or "winning" - just because the phrase includes the term "win" does not require it to meet the commonly accepted definition, which is gaining an ADVANTAGE. When i say you are driving me up the wall, there is no car involved, and no wall. This may or may not blow your mind, but shooting the moon does not involve a gun, OR the moon. And flipping out? Very seldom is anyone involved performing actual flips.
    P2W isn't an idiom like your other examples. The meaning is very clear for "P2W". The rest are phrases that have another meaning than what is being said. The comparison to the race is a bit off too. Leveling in WoW is more like everyone was sitting on lap 50 for nearly 2 years, and now people joining get the chance to start off on lap 50 too instead of 1 when the race is finally starting again.

    I mean, that's why most expansions came with the boost tacked on. Not like it isn't something basically every player has had at some point access to.

  15. #1575
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    But buying gold was a big no no in vanilla. Now it’s ok from the approved vendor (themselves). So spending money to buy gold, to buy a boost is not something you could do in vanilla (without breaking the ToS). How can it be comparable then?
    It may have been a big nono as concerns Blizzard. That doesn't mean however that it wasn't done and done in a huge scale. The term Chinese Gold Farmer exist for a reason. It always has and it always will. And if you think only Blizz sells retail gold then just google it and see.
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  16. #1576
    Paying other players gold in game for them to boost you through Dungeons/Raids (so you can get your items/achievements) has always happened since Vanilla.
    Even if you pay to be carried, you might not get the items you want because the drops are random, not controlled by the players therefore your "win" is not guaranteed.

    Not everyone has friends to run mythics with or like to be part of a particular sort of guild in order to be able to do this. For some people is not possible to be online at a specified time on a certain day in order to raid. No issue here whatsoever.

    How come it wasn't classed as P2W until the Token was introduced?

    I got gold in game, farmed by myself and bought 2 tokens off AH which I exchanged for game time. Where's the P2W? What have I won over who?

    I also bought a mount from the in-game shop because I really liked it. It goes at the same speed as any other mount in game, it just looks different - pure cosmetic.

    I have never paid other players in game to boost me through anything... where's the P2W? What am I doing wrong?!

    Trying to point out that just because you are able to get gold easily, it doesn't automatically mean you win over any other player; what you do with it is a choice and does not change the definition of the services provided by that game's developers.
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  17. #1577
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Yes. You can buy a skip to lvl 58. There is nothing in game that lets you do that.

    Ty for clearing it up. Buying a boost is P2W by your win definition.
    Not by my definition, by your understanding of my definition, does getting to level 58 mean you won? Also, by my definition you'd have to buy a boost to level 71 or higher while the regular player is only able to get to 70, glad I could clear that up

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    For the 500th time in this thread alone, the phrase P2W does not require something to be a "win" or "winning"
    Well then for the 500th time your opinion is your own.

    Yes - collectors editions and similar frequently if not ALWAYS contain items that cannot be obtained any other way, even TBCC has the felstalker mount, which was not in TBC, and cannot be obtained any other way. Now, I realise your natural instinct to this reply will be to say "yeah, but none of that gives you any power!!!" but i will tick that box right now by quoting something that may be familiar to you: "who gives a shit about gear?"
    If a person chooses to place those items under their own opinion of what p2w is that's on them.
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  18. #1578
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Yes - collectors editions and similar frequently if not ALWAYS contain items that cannot be obtained any other way, even TBCC has the felstalker mount, which was not in TBC, and cannot be obtained any other way. Now, I realise your natural instinct to this reply will be to say "yeah, but none of that gives you any power!!!" but i will tick that box right now by quoting something that may be familiar to you: "who gives a shit about gear?"
    You can't be serious on this... it is not even remotely the same thing, comparing Collector Editions with in game gear that gives you extra power.

    Collector Edition versions of various games have been available for years; I have all the boxes from all the Guild Wars expansions as CE, they contain various extras like art books, sound track, posters and occasional special in game purely cosmetic items. It has absolutely nothing to do with P2W, does not provide me with any extra advantages in game against any other player, it was never considered that and everyone and their dog (used to) agree with that.
    This is pure jealousy that you don't have what other people have simply because you did not pay for it.
    You have a Nissan Micra but look at the guy driving a Lamborghini and say "that bastard, it's so unfair I don't have a Lambo as well".
    “Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I am not yet completely sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein”
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  19. #1579
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Yet another question you just dont want to answer? Yet another example of your "easy" option not being easy at all. Have a guess, how long do you think it would take to get ONE toon to 190 ilvl, and we can just multiply that by fifteen.
    It doesn't matter to the actual point. I have never once stated it won't take time to get the process set up. I don't know how long it takes to gear to 190 but I know it doesn't take that long. I answer the question. Again you don't like the answer so you ignore the answer and cry about how it wasn't answered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    If you spend it on power, it's P2W.
    You are not spending money on power though. You are spending gold on power. So it isn't pay to win according to the definition you just gave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsy View Post
    Using gold to gain advantages is a normal part of the game, yes, when farmed through your own efforts in the game. Buying a token to acquire an advantage, ie, gold to buy power is P2W. You're paying Blizzard for gold to be used to get ahead of others who may not have the means to throw cash around, therefore being at a disadvantage because they can't simply just buy the gold themselves like the guy using rl money.
    You are paying a player are essentially paying a player $15 for the gold they spent farming for in game. You are buying gold. What you do with that gold is irrelevant to how you got the gold. Wealthy players always have an advantage over those that are poor. Who do you think supplies the gold for tokens? Wealthy players. That still doesn't make it pay to win just because someone makes use of having gold.

    The person that supplies the gold for a token can just as easily buy a carry with that gold. They choose the $15 gift card as a better option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    You keep changing the goal posts. 6 times you have been proven wrong and you keep going. What's next? The time is wrong because all my guys are 215 ilvl at least? You are done buddy. No one believes you because you have been proven wrong with math. It's just ridiculous that you even continue.
    I haven't been proven wrong at all. Or moved any goal posts. I have always been talking about the gold earned from callings. My math hasn't actually been proven wrong and the one person to try to claim it was wrong did their math incorrectly. It is why you and others shifted the goal posts to 200k, to time to level to 60, to time to gear up, to time for a calling, to repetition is makes easy things hard, and everything else you keep trying to use.

    The fact you even bring slavery into this shows how dishonest you are and how you have a weird need to villify something you don't agree with. Choosing to do something is never slavery. An optional way to get the gold that was originally stated is not slavery. A person asked how it was possible. I proved one way it was possible and instead of accepting the possibility it is meet with "Lol thats slavery" and other ignorance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The meaning is very clear for "P2W".
    No it isn't if you are still arguing that a levels are not buying power. That is part of the problem. The definition is clear but the way everyone applies it is subjective. A level skip is buying power in wow even if it doesn't bring you to end-game relevant levels. It is still an advantage over leveling it manually. Oh right you actually see a level boost as a disadvantage.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  20. #1580
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    No it isn't if you are still arguing that a levels are not buying power. That is part of the problem. The definition is clear but the way everyone applies it is subjective. A level skip is buying power in wow even if it doesn't bring you to end-game relevant levels. It is still an advantage over leveling it manually. Oh right you actually see a level boost as a disadvantage.
    Just because you and a few others want to twist the definition to fit your needs doesn't mean it isn't clear.

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