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  1. #1621
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Ironically, you're just seeming to come off as more confused.
    I never said anything close to what you're saying about this.

    I'm saying I'm confused why you're wasting so much time if you don't care that much, or that you're fine with.
    Its weird right?

    In one argument with some posters wow is p2w. With another its not. Its pretty clear what the poster you are arguing with are doing.

    Weird right?
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  2. #1622
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Ironically, you're just seeming to come off as more confused. I never said anything close to what you're saying about this. I'm saying I'm confused why you're wasting so much time if you don't care that much, or that you're fine with.
    The same reason why you keep wasting time? Because you want to. Just because I am fine with some forms of pay to win doesn't mean I'm fine with people using it incorrectly. Why do you think a person can't be fine with pay to win when labeling things as pay to win? You keep trying to imply that I am doing something bad by discussing the same as anyone else. Weird right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    In one argument with some posters wow is p2w. With another its not. Its pretty clear what the poster you are arguing with are doing.
    And what am I doing? I have been consistent on what I consider pay to win to be this entire time. Paying real money for an advantage. In this thread I have said WoW is pay to win with level boosts and that it is not with the token. That hasn't changed.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2021-06-11 at 10:58 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  3. #1623
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You mean gold. Paying for the power with cash is against the terms of service and is why the Gallywix boosting community got shut down by Blizzard.
    Yea, gold. Power.

    Same with lvl58/lvl50 boosts. Both bought with cash, both provide power.

  4. #1624
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    To be fair wealth redistribution can impact inflation but I don't think we have really seen such effects with the token. Prices of things seem to be impacted more on game design rather then token.
    If such trades were cause of inflation, then it would've already happened as there is a lot on the auction selling for more than the token price.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  5. #1625
    Shadowlands is the worst expansion of all time. I don't think there's a feasibly way to ignore this reality anymore. I've never seen the perception of an expansion degrade so fast within half a year timeframe.

    It doesn't just come down to the content anymore, but the state of the community and this absolute festering state of boosting and botting within the playerbase. People frequently shit on WoD because it had only 1 content patch and Garrisons were crap but the game was actually fairly playable and tight gameplay-wise compared to this nightmare of an expansion.

    Devs have lost the plot. At this point I have 0 faith in the game being good again and fully expect 10.0 to be another flop because:

    1.) The devs are very clearly out-of-touch.
    2.) The game is not a change or two away from being good. It's 100+ changes away.

  6. #1626
    Yes it is.

  7. #1627
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    Shadowlands is the worst expansion of all time. I don't think there's a feasibly way to ignore this reality anymore. I've never seen the perception of an expansion degrade so fast within half a year timeframe.

    It doesn't just come down to the content anymore, but the state of the community and this absolute festering state of boosting and botting within the playerbase. People frequently shit on WoD because it had only 1 content patch and Garrisons were crap but the game was actually fairly playable and tight gameplay-wise compared to this nightmare of an expansion.

    Devs have lost the plot. At this point I have 0 faith in the game being good again and fully expect 10.0 to be another flop because:

    1.) The devs are very clearly out-of-touch.
    2.) The game is not a change or two away from being good. It's 100+ changes away.
    I'd say BFA was worse because of how terrible corruptions were and how many different things you had to do if you wanted to min-max.
    But yeah, Shadowlands degraded QUICKLY. It felt great at the start but the time gating of Covenants and Soul-Ash gating of Torghast just feels terrible.

    I'm playing TBC Classic right now. If I want to improve my character, I can log in and do something to do that. And farming attunements actually feels better than any farming I have to do in retail, because the rep comes pretty naturally while doing dungeons for XP and gear (or other attunements).

    There is no "that's that for this week" that you get after a single day of playing.

  8. #1628
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    Shadowlands is the worst expansion of all time. I don't think there's a feasibly way to ignore this reality anymore. I've never seen the perception of an expansion degrade so fast within half a year timeframe.

    It doesn't just come down to the content anymore, but the state of the community and this absolute festering state of boosting and botting within the playerbase. People frequently shit on WoD because it had only 1 content patch and Garrisons were crap but the game was actually fairly playable and tight gameplay-wise compared to this nightmare of an expansion.

    Devs have lost the plot. At this point I have 0 faith in the game being good again and fully expect 10.0 to be another flop because:

    1.) The devs are very clearly out-of-touch.
    2.) The game is not a change or two away from being good. It's 100+ changes away.
    Was this meant to be in a different thread, or?
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  9. #1629
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Was this meant to be in a different thread, or?
    I guess it could maybe fit better in another thread or two on the front page but I think it's adjacent to the discussion here and I really didn't want to make a new thread just to crap out my (at this point) generic thoughts.

  10. #1630
    Immortal SL1200's Avatar
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    Yes, big time pay to win, for everyone except the top tier players.

  11. #1631
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    It is in a sense. You can skip leveling and buy gold. Its not as blatent as some cash shops, but there are p2w elements.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  12. #1632
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    That is why, about 70 pages or so ago, that people started using 'indirect P2W'.
    I find it a positive change. Means that, by discussion, people are actually zoning in on the concept and giving it a name that people can generally agree with.

    "P2W" is definitely a giant umbrella, with multiple shades of severity - and it's probably why the topic is so divisive.

  13. #1633
    Right now, very much so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Biden is a creepy old dude, I will not be voting for the guy.
    ^ This is from a self-proclaimed Trump-hater who goes round vote-policing, berating and insulting other users for expressing their doubts and reservations about Joe Biden. He also urges others to end relationships and friendships just to "vote Trump out". https://ibb.co/2jRnZGC He can't seem to walk the talk himself.

  14. #1634
    Quote Originally Posted by lockybalboa View Post
    Right now, very much so.
    What do you think the main difference is that makes it "very much so" right now, but not previously?
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    you have to be a moron to of said .

  15. #1635
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    What do you think the main difference is that makes it "very much so" right now, but not previously?
    Just open up your lfg and take a look at your trade chat provided you're not on a dead server? With the introduction with M+ and a greater emphasis on scores in recent years the demand for such carries have increased as well
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Biden is a creepy old dude, I will not be voting for the guy.
    ^ This is from a self-proclaimed Trump-hater who goes round vote-policing, berating and insulting other users for expressing their doubts and reservations about Joe Biden. He also urges others to end relationships and friendships just to "vote Trump out". https://ibb.co/2jRnZGC He can't seem to walk the talk himself.

  16. #1636
    Dreadlord Cuppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockybalboa View Post
    Just open up your lfg and take a look at your trade chat provided you're not on a dead server? With the introduction with M+ and a greater emphasis on scores in recent years the demand for such carries have increased as well
    Uhh... 91 pages but gonna ask once again(no one answered, I have my doubts whether you will either)
    1. They are carries, which means you are boosted aka no need to contribute at all, or it’s a minimal contribution. You can get people to play any game for you. For example, super mario, street fighter, cs, tetris etcetc.
    2. They are services made by players, which means you can also offer something else than gold and money, but for example bodyparts. For example, I will sell you glad title for a specific body part, but it does not make this game ”sell body part to win”.
    3. If I pay these carries/boosters more gold/money to not boost you, you do not gain the boost, which kind of doesnt make sense if it’s pay to win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pie Eater View Post
    Have you read the planned frost mage "nerfs" ?!? It's like nerfing a hangman's rope by coloring it blue.
    Mr. Smith about the cost of Triple-spec
    3k gold right off the bat, about 5 silver a week later.

  17. #1637
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/sanctum...Y68hOR-ERfkDaw
    Oh no! Blizzard is reducing the number of slots for BoE items in 9.1!
    Are they going mad? Don't they understand that WoW is P2W? How are they going to sell more tokens now?!
    The drama commences!

    Yeah just joking. Or not, I don't know. One thing's for sure - this doesn't bode well for BoE cash shop in the nearest future. What a shame, really.
    EDIT: And if that's not enough, they also think about decreasing BoEs drop rates. Seriously, Blizz?!
    Last edited by Rageonit; 2021-06-14 at 10:51 AM.

  18. #1638

  19. #1639
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    I'm not saying anything needs to be removed. I'm just stating the facts.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Still paying cash for currency to buy power. Sorry

    - - - Updated - - -



    ...Still paying cash for currency to buy power.

    Why deny this fact? I'm not even saying it's a bad thing. Nor am I saying something needs to be done about it lol
    You arent buying POWER you are buying currency. Then you have to rely on players willing to do things for you for that currency. It is 100% the playerbase giving you "power" not Blizzard. Thus it does not meet the criteria. And you dont have to buy tokens to get gold. In fact for people who really want to make money, tokens are one of the most inefficient and expensive routes to do so. You can make substantially more money in game then buying tokens.

  20. #1640
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    But they take gold because you made a trade, gold for game-time. The gold is not magically added or removed, calling it inflation is like calling trade inflation.
    True it is trade infaltion, but its infaltion never the less caused by an outside influence namely the token.

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