"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
Buy Currency with CC - collect currency in game - spend currency on gear
Buy Gear Token with CC - Collect gear token in game - spend Gear Token on gear = "100% P2W"
Buy Game Time Token with CC - Token automatically exchanged for gold by Blizzard - spend gold on gear = "100% NOT P2W"
And after 100 pages, this is where we find ourselves.
Tokens are not automatically exchanged. It requires a person to buy it and you have to list it on the AH yourself (unless it has changed since release as I've never bought one with $)
Stop trying to use lies to prove your point. It isn't pay to win if you have a transaction between two players and then later are required to contact different players in order to maybe win. It is possible that you could find no one to boost you. Unlikely but still possible. Buying gold isn't paying to win. You are paying for the time it took the other person to farm their gold.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
The problem with the token is not what it does for or too the player, it's the effect that it makes on a for profit company that is a slave to quarterly earning reports. The token creates a lot of pressure on developing the game to get more token sales which means more and more content NOT focused on quality lore or enjoyable gameplay or immersive rpg experiences. This pressure is based on the 80 iq idea of bottom line short term profits over long term loyalty, which is pretty much gone for WoW players versus what it was at 10 or 12 years ago.
The game hasn't really changed to put more pressure on token sales. The inflation of WoD was created before tokens. Challenge modes are the precursor to M+ and started in MoP. Group play hasn't changed much. The easy gold of WoD and Legion has been stopped but that wasn't because of tokens. The game no longer having quality lore, enjoyable game play or immersive rpg experiences has nothing to do with the token. Stop trying to create a scape goat for everything that you find wrong with the game.
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Blizzard setting the base price and requiring it to go through the AH is completely different then it being automatically exchanged for gold. The token requires a person to purchase it in order to give you gold. If no one purchases it you do not get gold. It is unlikely but it is possible. Just like the AH has run out of tokens before when on one listed them.
You can't trade it with a friend because it is BoP as well as Blizzard requiring the AH in order to safe guard the transactions from fraud.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
But it isn't automated. You have to list the token on the AH. Someone has to buy the token. That isn't automation if it requires input from two players. It would be automated if you buy the token and get gold with not extra input on your part. But that isn't how it works. BoP is a general term and it binds to the person so it can not be traded. Just because no other BoP items can be auctioned off doesn't stop the token from having that unique ability.
Last edited by rhorle; 2021-06-16 at 02:36 AM.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
Now you are just grasping at straws.
It is very simple. In gaming P2W means buying a currency or power with real money to either skip a time sink or to buy power directly. This power or currency can be available in game.
E.g. if you play a golf game that slowly awards you gems that can then be used to buy super balls then you are playing the game. If you pull out your credit card and buy those gems to get that ball straight away then you are P2W. It doesn't matter that you are shit and everyone still beats you even if you have loads of those balls. You still used a P2W mechanic.
Buying gold to pay for the chance to get gear is P2W. Farming gold within the game to pay for runs is playing the game.
Buying a boost is time skipping. Compared to another player who has level 1 you are skipping 100 plus hours for an average player. You are 100 hours ahead and 100 hours to 70 before the other player. 70 is where the game starts. You have an advantage.
In P2W, there is no guarantee at winning. Just buying advantages over others.
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So basically you don't know. You don't know how long it takes to gear a fresh toon to 190. You obviously do t have a legion of alts so you are making this all up. Like. Why? Why would you go to all this effort to create an argument that has been proven wrong on, by my count, 7 different people, and then reveal that you don't know how long it takes to gear up an alt?
I haven't seen anyone caught in a lie this bad since WoWIsDead tried to convince us that she had a boyfriend.
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Buyers remorse is a thing. It's studied in centres of higher learning such as universities. It's (dumbed way down) when someone regrets buying something and the actions they take to justify that purchase decision. Like buying gold from Blizzard and then saying things like "it's not direct P2W because I didn't buy any gear..." or buying a boost and then pointing at (completely irrelevant) 60s and saying "where's my advantage now?"
It's a very complex psychological phenomena and it doesn't always play out the same way for each person
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Is it pay to win to buy some gems to speed up the building of my town hall that would otherwise take 72 hours to build? That's your boost. That's P2W.
I have stated multiple times I only have on character at level cap. I don't know the time frame it takes to level up a character to 190 but I have experience by doing it over time by playing the game on my main. It is weird how you and the others that like to focus on this part have yet to give a time other then "it takes a while". My argument has also not been proven wrong at all let alone by 7 different people. The argument was never about the time it takes to gear up an alt. Are you confused?
You can make 150k a week through the method I outlined. I never said it wouldn't involve effort. I never said it wouldn't required work to level up the characters and get things set up. For time I only said it would take less then 20 mins per calling which I alone actually timed to show one of the more difficult ones took 14 mins with travel.
It is objectively true that since callings offer 1.5 to 2.5k gold you can earn 150k a week by doing enough of them across characters. 10 to 15 depending on luck. But to you basic mechanics of the game is false so what exactly is it you are still trying to prove?
Last edited by rhorle; 2021-06-16 at 03:33 AM.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
So, it's not p2w, it's pay for the convenience to win. word.
My Collection
- Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -Kill myself
Except you are not buying advantage, you have already lost and will forever be behind. Comparing losers to losers isn't proper.
The only way to have an advantage is to start early and play a lot at high level, no amount of money is going to change that. Thus you will never be able to win with just money.
Now to translate it to your golf game example:
Shop is off until highest skilled players finish all courses at highest difficulty. (thus you have already lost)
You can only buy limited amount of gems.
Playing a lot gives you much more gems at much faster rate.
The only way money can buy you a "real win" is to hire some pro player to play on your account but that can be applied to every game ever made.
This all assumes you need to gain an advantage over every single other player (be the best, win) in the game for a system to qualify as P2W. This is not accurate. Gain an advantage over others - not gain an advantage over literally any other player of the game.
P2W is a colloquial term, and there is nothing about the phrase that suggests a requirement to win, other than the fact the word win is in the phrase. This is the norm for such terms, it isn't even remotely unusual in the slightest. But "pay to win" has a ring to it, certainly more than "use your credit card to gain an advantage over other players". This is no doubt a major factor in why the phrase was adopted and has been used for so long, as is typically the case.
My Collection
- Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -Kill myself
Eh, that is more speculation. I hold my doubt much development time is attached to the outcome (and income) of the token. The token literally filled 3 problems and created one problem(?). It made it tougher for gold sellers, it made it tougher for illegal game-time sellers, and it made it easier for people to keep access to the game, and it created gold.
It didn't just make things boom, one could call it a gold sink with value, even. When it came out, gold was way too easy to get, MoP made it easy but not as easy, and Cataclysm as well - heck, end of Wrath, an average player could pull in a good chunk too.
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The token price is controlled by Blizzard for supply and demand, they do not up the price for no reason, nor dump it. And I hold my best belief that it is for the better of the market, or you'll have auction scalping and token sales demanding MUCH more gold, making the token an exclusive product once more, heck, people talked earlier in this thread about inflation for these meager amounts but double or triple the price would happen in the control of us, the players.
Following that. It is going through the Auction House for security measurements, and the sale is randomized so one cannot abuse it for special gold trades as we seen on the Auction already.
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Except, you are paying cash, to get game time, which you can sell for gold. Facts.
Last edited by Lochton; 2021-06-16 at 06:28 AM.
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
100 pages of this thread begs the question: How many more do people need to realize there won't be any kind of consensus?