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  1. #1901
    Jesus christ this thread is filled with... very...special people...

    Paying for a boost does not equal "winning". You will never be part of the world's first race, or a mythic prog guild, by PAYING for boosts. It just won't happen.

    There is literally NOTHING about this fucking game that is Pay2Win. Other than you fucking crybabies being mad someone can drop $20 on a token and get some gold. Which again, isn't paying to win, it's a convenience fee. Gas stations charge more money than a grocery store, why? Because its convenient to the consumer to buy something they only need one of while they're there getting gas.

    I feel like most of these idiots have never played a TRUE Pay2Win game. Like the Korean ARPGs where you NEED to buy cash shop items in order to upgrade your weapons and gear. And if you don't you risk breaking the item in the upgrade, meaning you lose it entirely, then have to go through ALL the steps to get it again and upgrade it again. That is a bullshit type of game.

    NOTHING in Blizzard cash shop is required or even helpful, in regards to you earning Mythic kills or high M+ clears. Literally, fucking, nothing.

    So no, Wow is not pay2win, not even fucking remotely.

  2. #1902
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    TCG problem is that is no longer available. It used to be sold as a card game, not the "players" are selling them for super expensive prices. TCG is not P2W, is just a bunch of cosmetics that had a "chance" to be found on the card game. I don't see the Pay To Win here....

    Tokens is a super direct way to win the game since you get around 190k of gold for just paying it with cash. And doing nothing....
    The TCG has already been purchased from the vendors/retailers, and Blizzard got their share, so technically, sold by Blizzard at one point, now being sold (still) by players for gold or real money. So, as someone mentioned, there is apparently a "visual advantage" as well as an "economic advantage" of dealing with TCG.

    The token is not direct unless you call game-time P2W? This is when people started mentioning 'indirect P2W' because it is the only way that the token could count under Pay2Win just like it would include TCG.

    Someone made an example that if you purchased a token, traded it to an NPC, got BiS - that is direct P2W.
    If you purchased a token (game-time), then put it on the auction house, then waiting for a player to buy it, then get gold - that would be indirect P2W if we use it as an excuse. It would be direct if you took your card, went to the store, selected the gold, got it in the mail - or - if you buy a token for real money, then sold it to a vendor to get gold.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  3. #1903
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    How is this thread still going? It's the same people posting from 2 weeks ago, saying the same stuff over and over. I quickly got tired of it and stepped away, but man, you guys have got perseverance!
    Thats the old me. Man I kept going! THAT STAMINA!

    Much better with just saying what I want like now, then maybe 1 or 2 replies, then gtfo.

    NEXT TOPIC!

  4. #1904
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    The TCG has already been purchased from the vendors/retailers, and Blizzard got their share, so technically, sold by Blizzard at one point, now being sold (still) by players for gold or real money. So, as someone mentioned, there is apparently a "visual advantage" as well as an "economic advantage" of dealing with TCG.

    The token is not direct unless you call game-time P2W? This is when people started mentioning 'indirect P2W' because it is the only way that the token could count under Pay2Win just like it would include TCG.

    Someone made an example that if you purchased a token, traded it to an NPC, got BiS - that is direct P2W.
    If you purchased a token (game-time), then put it on the auction house, then waiting for a player to buy it, then get gold - that would be indirect P2W if we use it as an excuse. It would be direct if you took your card, went to the store, selected the gold, got it in the mail - or - if you buy a token for real money, then sold it to a vendor to get gold.
    indirect P2W = When you pay for a token, you are also able to store the token as Account Balance. With that you are also able to get items from the store and other games. Because of that, the Blizzard store is turned into an "indirect P2W", because not many people are able to skip the USD price tag, by just using gold. Only the people with so much gold are capable of...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    Jesus christ this thread is filled with... very...special people...

    Paying for a boost does not equal "winning". You will never be part of the world's first race, or a mythic prog guild, by PAYING for boosts. It just won't happen.

    There is literally NOTHING about this fucking game that is Pay2Win. Other than you fucking crybabies being mad someone can drop $20 on a token and get some gold. Which again, isn't paying to win, it's a convenience fee. Gas stations charge more money than a grocery store, why? Because its convenient to the consumer to buy something they only need one of while they're there getting gas.

    I feel like most of these idiots have never played a TRUE Pay2Win game. Like the Korean ARPGs where you NEED to buy cash shop items in order to upgrade your weapons and gear. And if you don't you risk breaking the item in the upgrade, meaning you lose it entirely, then have to go through ALL the steps to get it again and upgrade it again. That is a bullshit type of game.

    NOTHING in Blizzard cash shop is required or even helpful, in regards to you earning Mythic kills or high M+ clears. Literally, fucking, nothing.

    So no, Wow is not pay2win, not even fucking remotely.
    Yes you can. With enough gold, you can pay ANYTHING in WoW. Is the most powerful tool in the game to get you anything. You could pay 10 tokens and get 1,900,000g in an instant. And pay your way to win at anything. You just need the player that sells that service that you need (PVP and PVE).

    So is P2W.

  5. #1905
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Is simple: How much it cost those boots?. Name them, so we can look for them in the AH..
    So, looking for the absolute cheapest, good, BoE's on my server I'm finding:

    Cloth:
    Acolyte's Velvet Bindings ilvl 226 for 250k
    Supple Supplicant's Gloves ilvl 226 for 350k
    Leather:
    Stud-Scarred Footwear ilvl 226 for 148k
    Barkweave Wristwraps ilvl 226 for 89k
    Mail:
    Legionnaires Bloodstained Sabatons ilvl 226 for 420k
    Watchful Arbelist's Bracers ilvl 226 for 189k
    Plate:
    Fallen Templar's Gauntlets ilvl 226 for 450k
    Cloak:
    Decadent Nathrian Shawl ilvl 226 for 120k
    Ring:
    Ardent Sunstar Signet ilvl 226 for 140k

    There is a total of five items that can be purchased on my server for the value of one WoW Token, but only enough to afford one.

    So, like I said, 195k doesn't really go that far. The only people buying single tokens to sell on the AH are just people that can't make enough gold in-game to afford repairs/pots/flasks/augments. Most people are using them to buy gear and boosts, which require multiple tokens.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  6. #1906
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    So, looking for the absolute cheapest, good, BoE's on my server I'm finding:

    Cloth:
    Acolyte's Velvet Bindings ilvl 226 for 250k
    Supple Supplicant's Gloves ilvl 226 for 350k
    Leather:
    Stud-Scarred Footwear ilvl 226 for 148k
    Barkweave Wristwraps ilvl 226 for 89k
    Mail:
    Legionnaires Bloodstained Sabatons ilvl 226 for 420k
    Watchful Arbelist's Bracers ilvl 226 for 189k
    Plate:
    Fallen Templar's Gauntlets ilvl 226 for 450k
    Cloak:
    Decadent Nathrian Shawl ilvl 226 for 120k
    Ring:
    Ardent Sunstar Signet ilvl 226 for 140k

    There is a total of five items that can be purchased on my server for the value of one WoW Token, but only enough to afford one.

    So, like I said, 195k doesn't really go that far. The only people buying single tokens to sell on the AH are just people that can't make enough gold in-game to afford repairs/pots/flasks/augments. Most people are using them to buy gear and boosts, which require multiple tokens.
    Actually is not that expensive, if you have Tokens to aid you.

    20USD = 1 Token
    190k is only for 1 Token, so you would need Max 2 Tokens for a total of 380,000g. The most expensive item on that list only need 3 Tokens.
    I think is quiet possible for a player to pay that, is not that much money. And for Item level 226 is an awesome start.

    Knowing the people from the US, they have money for that and more. If they have money to drop on Freemium games, this is super cheap for them.

    Is a clear Pay to Win there for the guy with Token Gold. How can you guys deny this now? Prices are just there....
    Last edited by Necrosaro123; 2021-06-15 at 03:37 PM.

  7. #1907
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    That statement in BOLD is incorrect. Gold is a huge advantage in WoW. It allows you to pay for many things in the AH and from Players. "Reputation" is one requirement to buy mounts, but also GOLD, tons of it, specially from past expansions. What i stated is that, the background process of the TOKEN is not relevant. How the player got the gold is not relevant, in the end he sold it for cash or Game Time. That is Pay to Win for the guy that paid Cash to easily get 190k.
    Of course gold can buy things. That is the whole point of it existing as a currency in the game. That still does mean you win anything by simply gaining gold. You also have to spend it. Most of the things you can spend gold on are not power related and won't fall under the definition of pay to win. If how a player spends the gold is relevant then how a player got the gold is relevant. You can't have it both ways.

    Either it is just the transaction that is relevant or things linked to the transaction are relevant. Buying gold is not winning anything. It is a micro transaction paying a player for their gold with Blizzard as the middle man.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #1908
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Of course gold can buy things. That is the whole point of it existing as a currency in the game. That still does mean you win anything by simply gaining gold. You also have to spend it. Most of the things you can spend gold on are not power related and won't fall under the definition of pay to win. If how a player spends the gold is relevant then how a player got the gold is relevant. You can't have it both ways.

    Either it is just the transaction that is relevant or things linked to the transaction are relevant. Buying gold is not winning anything. It is a micro transaction paying a player for their gold with Blizzard as the middle man.
    The background process of the TOKEN is not relevant, if you are using that as an excuse for not calling it P2W.

    You pay cash = you get gold= you win tons of gold = Pay to Win.

  9. #1909
    Scarab Lord Motorman's Avatar
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    WoW is 100% p2w and all one needs to progress is mine some eth and spend it in tokens then buy any boost they like to any content they crave. Sad but true and happening as we speak.

    P.S. I do not condone this kind of behavior but I think it’s time to start addressing the elephant in the room.
    WoW forums in a nutshell:
    m8 i've been around since Feb 2005, I know it all.
    i outgrew the games playerbase.
    So I was using a gold dupe hack. I don't know why i was banned for this. It is so unfair.
    People need an incentive to play content. "Its fun!" is simply not enough.
    Btw iam multi glad so plz dont tell me how to play, kkthxbye

  10. #1910
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    WoW is 100% p2w and all one needs to progress is mine some eth and spend it in tokens then buy any boost they like to any content they crave. Sad but true and happening as we speak.

    P.S. I do not condone this kind of behavior but I think it’s time to start addressing the elephant in the room.
    Yep. The moment the "CASH" get involved in the game progress, is now a P2W

    You Pay Cash = Get an unfair advantage = P2W

  11. #1911
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    You pay cash = you get gold= you win tons of gold = Pay to Win.
    So you win the game buy simply having gold? What is the required amount for a "win" then? I have enough for two tokens so what did I win? Why didn't I get my Mythic gear? My CE? My KSM? Should I contact a GM to say my gold is defective?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  12. #1912
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So you win the game buy simply having gold? What is the required amount for a "win" then? I have enough for two tokens so what did I win? Why didn't I get my Mythic gear? My CE? My KSM? Should I contact a GM to say my gold is defective?
    So you win the game buy simply having gold?
    Yes. You get gold so fast than anyone else.

    What is the required amount for a "win" then?
    With 1 token is enough to call it Pay to Win. You paid money -> you won tons of gold

    I have enough for two tokens so what did I win?
    If you participate in the P2W scheme of the Token, you are also part it. On your case, you won Game Time that normally cost Money.

    Why didn't I get my Mythic gear?My CE? My KSM?
    No idea...Maybe you didn't played the game. Or got carried with gold to get it. There so many options there.

    Should I contact a GM to say my gold is defective?
    The Token is working fine. May be you are the broken one.

  13. #1913
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So you win the game buy simply having gold? What is the required amount for a "win" then? I have enough for two tokens so what did I win? Why didn't I get my Mythic gear? My CE? My KSM? Should I contact a GM to say my gold is defective?
    I find that we win everytime we progress through the game and accomplish a goal.
    Reached level cap? Gz!
    Cleared Mythic? Gz!
    Got the PvP title? Gz!
    Got Garrosh Shoulderpads? Gz!

    I bet some of those will count as Win for multiple people, yet different people will find each of those victories to be worth differently.

    What about you tell what you consider to be winning in a mmorpg.

  14. #1914
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Yes. You get gold so fast than anyone else.
    You said anything else was irrelevant. So you can't then use getting gold fast as part of it. This also ignores that someone else had to have got that gold to allow you to use a token. So you didn't win anything. You merely trade another player for their win. It is also funny how you say anyone with 190k gold has won the game. You have no idea why just having gold didn't get me Mythic gear? Really? Don't play dumb. You know exactly why having gold doesn't automatically get a person gear. Because gold doesn't get you a win.

    If the token is working fine then I should get a Win just from having a lot of gold right? That is where you weird definitions fall apart.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    I bet some of those will count as Win for multiple people, yet different people will find each of those victories to be worth differently.
    Wins in the context of pay to win are not subjective things that change based on the player. If that were the case then Pay to Win would be equal to Micro Transaction. But it is not because there is a difference between the two and not all micro transactions are considered to be pay to win. Cosmetics, titles, mounts, transmog etc are not wins.

    It may be your personal goal to achieve those things but that doesn't mean you gain any power related advantage over others.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  15. #1915
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    indirect P2W = When you pay for a token, you are also able to store the token as Account Balance. With that you are also able to get items from the store and other games. Because of that, the Blizzard store is turned into an "indirect P2W", because not many people are able to skip the USD price tag, by just using gold. Only the people with so much gold are capable of...

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes you can. With enough gold, you can pay ANYTHING in WoW. Is the most powerful tool in the game to get you anything. You could pay 10 tokens and get 1,900,000g in an instant. And pay your way to win at anything. You just need the player that sells that service that you need (PVP and PVE).

    So is P2W.
    Are you retarded?

    How can you pay, to win, in a game where you cannot be the best at anything by paying for it? You can't "win", you can maybe move from 500,000 in the rankings to maybe 250,000. But you can't PAY, and get to 1st place by doing so. So no, you cannot fucking pay to win. Gold doesn't do anything in this game, other than buy low tier boosts for M+ or PvP. You will never, ever, ever be #1 at ANYTHING in wow, by paying for it.

    Stop being so fucking stupid.

  16. #1916
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Yes. Do I really need to repeat that? One involves players providing both the gold and whatever you buy with gold. The other is direct from Blizzard. There is a big difference between the two things.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Those games are not this game though. Buying gold as you stated is not pay to win because you are not buying the win. The win is bought with gold.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Then why did you link a definition earlier that didn't include that? Gold is not a win. Shifting the win to just having gold does not make your argument valid. There is no need to shift the goal posts just because your definition doesn't work.
    I mean, it is this game. You can buy currency with cash so that you can buy power.

    /Thread

  17. #1917
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Wins in the context of pay to win are not subjective things that change based on the player. If that were the case then Pay to Win would be equal to Micro Transaction. But it is not because there is a difference between the two and not all micro transactions are considered to be pay to win. Cosmetics, titles, mounts, transmog etc are not wins.

    It may be your personal goal to achieve those things but that doesn't mean you gain any power related advantage over others.
    A dodge it is, then.

  18. #1918
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    Are you retarded?

    How can you pay, to win, in a game where you cannot be the best at anything by paying for it? You can't "win", you can maybe move from 500,000 in the rankings to maybe 250,000. But you can't PAY, and get to 1st place by doing so. So no, you cannot fucking pay to win. Gold doesn't do anything in this game, other than buy low tier boosts for M+ or PvP. You will never, ever, ever be #1 at ANYTHING in wow, by paying for it.

    Stop being so fucking stupid.
    Purchasing any sort of advantage is winning.

    Nobody here is complaining and attacking Blizzard for the wow token. So why do you get so pissed off and feel the need to lash out?

    We're only stating facts here.

  19. #1919
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    I mean, it is this game. You can buy currency with cash so that you can buy power. /Thread
    So is it the cash or the currency that enables you to buy power? Can I still buy power with out using cash? Is the game naturally designed to allow group play? Is it naturally designed to sell gear on the AH? Stop using /thread when you actually don't end anything.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  20. #1920
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You said anything else was irrelevant. So you can't then use getting gold fast as part of it. This also ignores that someone else had to have got that gold to allow you to use a token. So you didn't win anything. You merely trade another player for their win. It is also funny how you say anyone with 190k gold has won the game. You have no idea why just having gold didn't get me Mythic gear? Really? Don't play dumb. You know exactly why having gold doesn't automatically get a person gear. Because gold doesn't get you a win.

    If the token is working fine then I should get a Win just from having a lot of gold right? That is where you weird definitions fall apart.

    You said anything else was irrelevant
    = That means, that your excuse of someone else doing the job of farming it, would magically turn it into a fair trade. If you paid cash to get a serious economical advantage like getting 190k in an instant, is P2W

    So you didn't win anything. = You paid Real Money for it to Blizzard. You got tons of gold = P2W

    You merely trade another player for their win. = You paid Blizzard real money for that gold.

    It is also funny how you say anyone with 190k gold has won the game., if 190k of gold is not that much for you, is probably because you already collected all the mounts, pets, transmog and any other collectibles available in the AH or NPCs. Other people don't. Other people still need to complete their collections, others are starting from 0. If its not important to you, it doesnt means is not important to someone else. You get 190k gold and is a big win for the guy who gets it. 0 effort, just 1 Credit Card slip and instant gold for whatever he needs.

    You have no idea why just having gold didn't get me Mythic gear? Really? Don't play dumb. You know exactly why having gold doesn't automatically get a person gear. Because gold doesn't get you a win. Yes you can. You can buy other people to carry you. It has always being a thing. You don't look at the Trade Channel do you?. Tons of spam of people selling carries for PvE and PvP for what.....yep, that's right...GOLD.


    If the token is working fine then I should get a Win just from having a lot of gold right? That is where you weird definitions fall apart.. No, the definition is really clear: You Pay Money = Get Advantage = Pay To Win.
    Dont try to play the fool there....

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