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  1. #1921
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So is it the cash or the currency that enables you to buy power? Can I still buy power with out using cash? Is the game naturally designed to allow group play? Is it naturally designed to sell gear on the AH? Stop using /thread when you actually don't end anything.
    The cash. It lets me purchase power.

  2. #1922
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    Are you retarded?

    How can you pay, to win, in a game where you cannot be the best at anything by paying for it? You can't "win", you can maybe move from 500,000 in the rankings to maybe 250,000. But you can't PAY, and get to 1st place by doing so. So no, you cannot fucking pay to win. Gold doesn't do anything in this game, other than buy low tier boosts for M+ or PvP. You will never, ever, ever be #1 at ANYTHING in wow, by paying for it.

    Stop being so fucking stupid.
    Simple: By completing without effort, what you are looking for...PvE, PvP, Collections, Gear...you call it. Slip the Credit card and get gold super fast, like no one else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    I mean, it is this game. You can buy currency with cash so that you can buy power.

    /Thread
    So true...Why is this too hard to understand?

  3. #1923
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    A dodge it is, then.
    He's been at this for hours, just dodging all logic lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Simple: By completing without effort, what you are looking for...PvE, PvP, Collections, Gear...you call it. Slip the Credit card and get gold super fast, like no one else.

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    So true...Why is this too hard to understand?
    Because at this point, he's trolling

  4. #1924
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    I don't think you have the slightest clue what Communism is. Being concerned with how much you're making per hour is a very Capitalist thing to do. And the fact that every 14k of gold in the game is, at best, derived from one hour of work helps you to valuate every gold-making activity in the game. Any activity that provides less than that (quests, bosses, callings, wq, drops etc) is an inefficient activity because you could always just be farming the raw gold.
    .
    You are trying to make everyone equal by bringing them down to the low threshold. Im pretty sure I know more about communism than you considering my country was communist few decades ago.

    Facts:
    - Game does have option to make tons of gold super fast
    - Just because you lack the skill to do so is not a game fault.
    - Just because people don't care enough to start AH flipping doesn't mean they are unable to do so.
    - 14k via callings is not even remotely close to viable method of making gold.


    A bit smarter people realized its far easier to make gold in game than to actually try to progress via game so they do buy boosts instead.
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion > ... > Eating Dust > .... > SL
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    Legendaries were such a great system I had them all before blizz lifted softcap

  5. #1925
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    He's been at this for hours, just dodging all logic lol

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    Because at this point, he's trolling
    He just like to dodge logic, with more mundane questions. And doing that for pages ago. He is clearly trolling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    You are trying to make everyone equal by bringing them down to the low threshold. Im pretty sure I know more about communism than you considering my country was communist few decades ago.

    Facts:
    - Game does have option to make tons of gold super fast
    - Just because you lack the skill to do so is not a game fault.
    - Just because people don't care enough to start AH flipping doesn't mean they are unable to do so.
    - 14k via callings is not even remotely close to viable method of making gold.


    A bit smarter people realized its far easier to make gold in game than to actually try to progress via game so they do buy boosts instead.
    Or just pay for a Token and get 190k in an instant.
    Oy just pay for a Boost and skip hours or days of playing old content, and start in SL content.

  6. #1926
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    if 190k of gold is not that much for you, is probably because you already collected all the mounts, pets, transmog and any other collectibles available in the AH or NPCs. Other people don't. Other people still need to complete their collections, others are starting from 0. If its not important to you, it doesnt means is not important to someone else. You get 190k gold and is a big win for the guy who gets it. 0 effort, just 1 Credit Card slip and instant gold for whatever he needs.
    It takes far more then 190k to get every single thing in the game. So which is it. You win the game by collecting everything or you win the game by getting 1 token worth of gold? It isn't zero effort because you are paying for the effort of another person. You can't keep saying it takes a lot of effort to get 190k while at the same time saying it is zero effort. That doesn't work.

    Yes you can. You can buy other people to carry you. It has always being a thing. You don't look at the Trade Channel do you?. Tons of spam of people selling carries for PvE and PvP for what.....yep, that's right...GOLD.
    Oh. So having the gold doesn't get me the win. I have to go out and actually get the win through other players. Weird. I though you said I won the game by having a token worth of gold. That I can buy a token and win. Why is it that I have to do multiple steps in order to win when buying a token was the win. You defeat your own argument once again.

    No, the definition is really clear: You Pay Money = Get Advantage = Pay To Win.
    So by your definition a token is not pay to win. Because it doesn't get you an advantage. You have to ask other players to get you an advantage.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  7. #1927
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    for me I still think its hilarious that people equate having good gear from being carried is pay to win.. you can't make this up, the thread is 97 pages long and people just can't understand that a game they havent even played for 10 years is still better than they are

    Go back to Final Fantasy 14 Remastered or whatever its called lol

  8. #1928
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    The cash. It lets me purchase power.
    What power do you get from having gold? Does 1 g translate to 1 item level? The cash doesn't let you purchase any power. The gold does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    A dodge it is, then.
    How is that a dodge? You don't win anything by having a mount. You don't win anything by having transmog. If a win is subjective to the individual then logging into the game can be defined as a win. Which means WoW has always been pay to win and renders any use of the term "Pay to Win" silly. Because if everything is pay to win then nothing is.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  9. #1929
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It takes far more then 190k to get every single thing in the game. So which is it. You win the game by collecting everything or you win the game by getting 1 token worth of gold? It isn't zero effort because you are paying for the effort of another person. You can't keep saying it takes a lot of effort to get 190k while at the same time saying it is zero effort. That doesn't work.



    Oh. So having the gold doesn't get me the win. I have to go out and actually get the win through other players. Weird. I though you said I won the game by having a token worth of gold. That I can buy a token and win. Why is it that I have to do multiple steps in order to win when buying a token was the win. You defeat your own argument once again.



    So by your definition a token is not pay to win. Because it doesn't get you an advantage. You have to ask other players to get you an advantage.
    Give me, right now you definition of Pay To Win.

  10. #1930
    If winning is defined by having a mount only available in the shop then, yes.

    Otherwise, as long as it's not an advantage that you can't obtain in game yourself (like private servers with overpowered custom donor only gear) or that would take you an absurd amount of time or luck to get (like for example, buying warglaives during tbc), then can't really be considered pay to win.

    There is a bit of gray area where people who lack the skill to get it on their own, buy m+ or raid carries for gear. But at the end of the day, they will still lack the skill to make use of it.

  11. #1931
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    for me I still think its hilarious that people equate having good gear from being carried is pay to win.. you can't make this up, the thread is 97 pages long and people just can't understand that a game they havent even played for 10 years is still better than they are

    Go back to Final Fantasy 14 Remastered or whatever its called lol
    Everything, you consider important in the game is a win. Is an MMO. You do what you like and there are so many activities there.

    For you, like you said it, is hilarious that people equate having good gear fro being carried a pay to win. And that is because, when you play WoW you have a team to do the raids or any other PVE content. For other people....that is hard, and that is what they want. So paying gold for it, is the only way for them to do it. But....if they dont have the money to do it, they could buy a token, get tons of gold in an instant and win that desired activity.

  12. #1932
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Or just pay for a Token and get 190k in an instant.
    Oy just pay for a Boost and skip hours or days of playing old content, and start in SL content.
    Or you could just git gud and actually win the game by finishing hard content before boosts are even available.
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion > ... > Eating Dust > .... > SL
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    Legendaries were such a great system I had them all before blizz lifted softcap

  13. #1933
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Or you could just git gud and actually win the game by finishing hard content before boosts are even available.
    Before boost, people used to grind. I don't remember, since it was years ago, but i remember The Stockades being a good place to farm XP to reach high level. Also people used Deadmines. idk really....there used to be so many methods to grind, but that was time consuming and a long process. Now you can slip the Credit Card and get it instantly, or just play the game for hours or days and get it. Is still pay to win to use the boost.

  14. #1934
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Purchasing any sort of advantage is winning.

    Nobody here is complaining and attacking Blizzard for the wow token. So why do you get so pissed off and feel the need to lash out?

    We're only stating facts here.
    No, it is not. Are you purposely being glib?

    You purchase a subscription, you purchase items from the auction house, you purchase items from other players, you used to be able to purchase items with dkp systems if your guild ran those. Like... that is what the game is about.

    It's mindboggling that you think gold, can lead you to "win" anything in wow. Because one thing gold can't give you, is skill.

    Pay to win, the term in MMOs is typically only meant towards monetization of the cash shop resulting in direct power gains over top players. Which NOTHING in Blizzard's cash shop does that. Literally fucking nothing. So yeah, it's very fucking annoying that you don't even understand the basic argument going on, yet feel the need to reply stating incorrect facts repeatedly.

  15. #1935
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    No, it is not. Are you purposely being glib?

    You purchase a subscription, you purchase items from the auction house, you purchase items from other players, you used to be able to purchase items with dkp systems if your guild ran those. Like... that is what the game is about.

    It's mindboggling that you think gold, can lead you to "win" anything in wow. Because one thing gold can't give you, is skill.

    Pay to win, the term in MMOs is typically only meant towards monetization of the cash shop resulting in direct power gains over top players. Which NOTHING in Blizzard's cash shop does that. Literally fucking nothing. So yeah, it's very fucking annoying that you don't even understand the basic argument going on, yet feel the need to reply stating incorrect facts repeatedly.

    It's mindboggling that you think gold, can lead you to "win" anything in wow. Because one thing gold can't give you, is skill.
    Is not about the skill, is clear you cant pay for that. Is about, getting an instant reward for doing nothing more than using the Credit Card. Gold buys everything in the game, from collectibles, items in the AH, player to player transactions, etc.

    Pay to win, the term in MMOs is typically only meant towards monetization of the cash shop resulting in direct power gains over top players.
    You pay cash = You get tons of gold = You win economical advantage that otherwise it would have been tons of time farming for that gold.
    You pay cash = You get a Boost = You win a higher level that otherwise it would have been tons of time invested.

    Which NOTHING in Blizzard's cash shop does that.
    Yes there is: The Token and The Boost

    So yeah, it's very fucking annoying that you don't even understand the basic argument going on, yet feel the need to reply stating incorrect facts repeatedly.
    The only one who doesn't get it, is you, I'm afraid. Everyone else gets it that the Boost and the Token are P2W schemes.

  16. #1936
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    So true...Why is this too hard to understand?
    Because with all the gear in the game you still haven't won the game, why is that hard to understand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Which NOTHING in Blizzard's cash shop does that.
    Yes there is: The Token and The Boost.
    Nothing you can get with the token will make you MORE powerful than top players

    and if the player is shit they won't even be AS POWERFUL as top players lol
    My Collection
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  17. #1937
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Because with all the gear in the game you still haven't won the game, why is that hard to understand?
    Because the definition of "WIN" is being set by players. For some people is the achievement, others Power in terms of higher item level, other people like collectibles....etc.

    What is a win for you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Because with all the gear in the game you still haven't won the game, why is that hard to understand?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Nothing you can get with the token will make you MORE powerful than top players

    and if the player is shit they won't even be AS POWERFUL as top players lol
    Nothing you can get with the token will make you MORE powerful than top players
    Provide example of this...?

    and if the player is shit they won't even be AS POWERFUL as top players lol
    Dont mistake Skill over "I have the money to buy my way into higher item level"

  18. #1938
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Give me, right now you definition of Pay To Win.
    I have given it to you many times. Paying for an advantage of power. The level boost Blizzard sells is an example even though the power is not relevant to end game. Tokens are not buying power because you are buying gold. Wins obtained through gold rely on players and is not a direct cash transaction and gold is not a currency just for buying power.

    If the gold from the token was generated by Blizzard it would change things. If the win was provided by Blizzard it would change things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Everything, you consider important in the game is a win.
    So if I consider logging into the game as a win then any game I log into is pay to win? That is silly. The definition of win in pay to win is not something that is subjective or changes based on the individuals goals.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  19. #1939
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    I have given it to you many times. Paying for an advantage of power. The level boost Blizzard sells is an example even though the power is not relevant to end game. Tokens are not buying power because you are buying gold. Wins obtained through gold rely on players and is not a direct cash transaction and gold is not a currency just for buying power.

    If the gold from the token was generated by Blizzard it would change things. If the win was provided by Blizzard it would change things.
    The gold is provided to you by Blizzard, with a transaction created by Blizzard, where you had to pay Blizzard real money to get that gold. If i'm broke, i'm not able to get myself a Token/Gold, so is already behind a PayWall. And also, with said gold, that is around 190k, i could pay tons, tons of things in the AH or players, which is already an unfair advantage on how i got that gold in the first place....by using money.

    So is P2W. I don't see it as other way

  20. #1940
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Because the definition of "WIN" is being set by players. For some people is the achievement, others Power in terms of higher item level, other people like collectibles....etc.

    What is a win for you?
    Nothing lol, nothing in wow would make me feel like I won wow.

    Provide example of this...?
    No matter how much gold people buy their peak power is no greater than the best players peak power because there isn't like 'Super cash shop gear' that is better than in game gear.
    My Collection
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -Kill myself

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