1. #1941
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So if I consider logging into the game as a win then any game I log into is pay to win? That is silly. The definition of win in pay to win is not something that is subjective or changes based on the individuals goals.
    This is trolling, because considering logging into the game is not a pay to win. I paid my access to the server like everyone else. Is already clear, that is a requirement, in order to play WoW.

    Paying for a Token, is Pay To Win because it gives a serious Economical advantage over other players by just using Real Money to buy Gold. Is Pay to Win. I no longer buy it from chinese farmers, but now im buying it from Blizzard directly. P2W

  2. #1942
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    The gold is provided to you by Blizzard, with a transaction created by Blizzard, where you had to pay Blizzard real money to get that gold.
    You do not understand the token. The gold from the token is provided by players and not blizzard. The transaction is between two players a token for gold. Blizzard provides the token for a $5 transaction fee. You pay Blizzard $5 and are paying the player $15. Because that is the value of the token. If you are broke you are not even able to subscribe to the game. So either way you won't be able to get yourself anything game related. The game is behind a pay wall. Gold is not behind a pay wall of the token because you are free to earn gold yourself. Just like those who provide gold for the token do.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  3. #1943
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Nothing lol, nothing in wow would make me feel like I won wow.


    No matter how much gold people buy their peak power is no greater than the best players peak power because there isn't like 'Super cash shop gear' that is better than in game gear.
    If nothing is important to you. Then it means for YOU, is just logging into the game to be at Goldshire Inn all day doing nothing. Nothing pulls you to participate in any activity, Not the Achievements, not the loot, not the collectibles, no interaction with the players....nothing. You are just an NPC sitting there all day. Is that what you do in the game? or I'm wrong?

  4. #1944
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    This is trolling, because considering logging into the game is not a pay to win. I paid my access to the server like everyone else. Is already clear, that is a requirement, in order to play WoW.
    So a win is not defined by the individual player? Make up your mind. Can the individual define what is a win for them or is the definition of the win a non-subjective one?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  5. #1945
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You do not understand the token. The gold from the token is provided by players and not blizzard. The transaction is between two players a token for gold. Blizzard provides the token for a $5 transaction fee. You pay Blizzard $5 and are paying the player $15. Because that is the value of the token. If you are broke you are not even able to subscribe to the game. So either way you won't be able to get yourself anything game related. The game is behind a pay wall. Gold is not behind a pay wall of the token because you are free to earn gold yourself. Just like those who provide gold for the token do.
    The gold provided to you, comes from Blizzard. You paid them Money, they send you a mail with the gold attached, and the other player gets Game Time. The Transaction is being facilitated by Blizzard, created by Blizzard and set by Blizzard to earn Cash from Players. You paid cash to Blizzard to get gold = P2W.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So a win is not defined by the individual player? Make up your mind. Can the individual define what is a win for them or is the definition of the win a non-subjective one?
    Stop trolling Rhorle. Is not funny.
    So a win is not defined by the individual player? Its an MMO, players choose what they want to accomplish
    Can the individual define what is a win for them or is the definition of the win a non-subjective one? The game has objectives, are those objectives so hard for you to understand?
    Last edited by Necrosaro123; 2021-06-15 at 05:18 PM.

  6. #1946
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    The gold provided to you, comes from Blizzard. You paid them Money, they send you an email with the gold attached, and the other player gets Game Time. The Transaction is being facilitated by Blizzard, created by Blizzard and set by Blizzard to earn Cash from Players. You paid cash to Blizzard to get gold = P2W.
    So why does a player have to buy the token with gold if Blizzard provides the gold? Gold comes in an e-mail now? How do I get the gold from g-mail into the game? The token only gets you gold when you list in on the Auction House and the gold comes from another player just like any other AH transaction.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  7. #1947
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So why does a player have to buy the token with gold if Blizzard provides the gold? Gold comes in an e-mail now? How do I get the gold from g-mail into the game? The token only gets you gold when you list in on the Auction House and the gold comes from another player just like any other AH transaction.
    Stop trolling Rhorle. I already answered that many times before...

    So why does a player have to buy the token with gold if Blizzard provides the gold?
    Pay Blizzard Cash, Blizzard Gives you GOld =P2W
    Gold comes in an e-mail now?
    Game mail, stop trolling Rhorle
    How do I get the gold from g-mail into the game?
    This is trolling

  8. #1948
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Its an MMO, players choose what they want to accomplish
    Unless that accomplishment is logging on. You exclude that from being a win so it isn't up to the player to choose what they want to accomplish. You can't have it both ways just because you don't like a potential individual goal for a player. That is the problem when you subjective define something like "Pay to Win". And the reason why the definition of win is important and excludes things.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  9. #1949
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Unless that accomplishment is logging on. You exclude that from being a win so it isn't up to the player to choose what they want to accomplish. You can't have it both ways just because you don't like a potential individual goal for a player. That is the problem when you subjective define something like "Pay to Win". And the reason why the definition of win is important and excludes things.
    Service = Game Time, Race Change, Faction Change...etc
    Pay To Win = Token and Boost.

    Why?
    Provide unfair advantage

  10. #1950
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Pay Blizzard Cash, Blizzard Gives you GOld =P2W
    Blizzard doesn't give you the gold. A player purchasing your token gives you the gold. If no player buys the token no gold will be given to you. Also it isn't trolling if you actually used e-mail. I was asking you to clarify your remarks. Because you might actually believe it comes from an e-mail since Blizzard does send out confirmation e-mails when redeeming tokens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Service = Game Time, Race Change, Faction Change...etc
    The token is game time so you already don't define it correctly. Stop giving definitions that you yourself don't even follow.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  11. #1951
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Blizzard doesn't give you the gold. A player purchasing your token gives you the gold. If no player buys the token no gold will be given to you. Also it isn't trolling if you actually used e-mail. I was asking you to clarify your remarks. Because you might actually believe it comes from an e-mail since Blizzard does send out confirmation e-mails when redeeming tokens.

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    The token is game time so you already don't define it correctly. Stop giving definitions that you yourself don't even follow.
    Blizzard gives you the gold. Or do you see the player opening the trade window on you and gives you the gold?. Nop, is Blizzard system.
    --
    Token = Gold for the Token seller. Game time for Gold seller.

  12. #1952
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    How is that a dodge? You don't win anything by having a mount. You don't win anything by having transmog. If a win is subjective to the individual then logging into the game can be defined as a win. Which means WoW has always been pay to win and renders any use of the term "Pay to Win" silly. Because if everything is pay to win then nothing is.
    Again a reply and again no definition of what "Winning" is in a MMORPG, to you. Another dodge. Amazing!

  13. #1953
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    Again a reply and again no definition of what "Winning" is in a MMORPG, to you. Another dodge. Amazing!
    They can't define what would constitute a "win" in an MMO because it would become immediately apparent that whatever it was could be purchased with gold. Unless they say "the friends I made along the way"

    So, of course they're gonna dodge.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  14. #1954
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    They can't define what would constitute a "win" in an MMO because it would become immediately apparent that whatever it was could be purchased with gold. Unless they say "the friends I made along the way"

    So, of course they're gonna dodge.
    To be fair, it's very difficult to state what a definitive win means in a MMORPG because there are so many types of goals that the players can persue and achieve.

    It's just very entertaining to see those that insist that "X isn't Winning" squirm so hard at not being able to declare what a Win is, lest their intellectual dishonesty show it's ugly head.

  15. #1955
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    To be fair, it's very difficult to state what a definitive win means in a MMORPG because there are so many types of goals that the players can persue and achieve.

    It's just very entertaining to see those that insist that "X isn't Winning" squirm so hard at not being able to declare what a Win is, lest their intellectual dishonesty show it's ugly head.
    I already said it.

    Win = What ever is the objective of the player. This game has many objectives, from Achievements, Collections, Currency, etc....So many. Is like all the activities you can do on the game. Gold is one, because it provide the others easily.

    Unless you sit in Goldshire all day in Moonguard, doing nothing....That doesn't earn you anything

  16. #1956
    You can buy gold.
    Gold can buy anything.

    Yes this game is p2w.
    Avatar given by Sausage Zeldas.

  17. #1957
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    You can buy gold.
    Gold can buy anything.

    Yes this game is p2w.
    Correct: Anything from the AH and Players

  18. #1958
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    If nothing is important to you.
    Something being important to me doesn't also require me to feel like I've won when I've accomplished it.
    My Collection
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -Kill myself

  19. #1959
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Something being important to me doesn't also require me to feel like I've won when I've accomplished it.
    That is up to you. For other people, having enough item level to kill enemies super fast is a win. Its up to what everyone think it is. But most people agree in many of them. One example: Economy, having gold to spend inside the game.

  20. #1960
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    What power do you get from having gold? Does 1 g translate to 1 item level? The cash doesn't let you purchase any power. The gold does.

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    How is that a dodge? You don't win anything by having a mount. You don't win anything by having transmog. If a win is subjective to the individual then logging into the game can be defined as a win. Which means WoW has always been pay to win and renders any use of the term "Pay to Win" silly. Because if everything is pay to win then nothing is.
    Don't know what to tell you. Cash gets me power, directly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    No, it is not. Are you purposely being glib?

    You purchase a subscription, you purchase items from the auction house, you purchase items from other players, you used to be able to purchase items with dkp systems if your guild ran those. Like... that is what the game is about.

    It's mindboggling that you think gold, can lead you to "win" anything in wow. Because one thing gold can't give you, is skill.

    Pay to win, the term in MMOs is typically only meant towards monetization of the cash shop resulting in direct power gains over top players. Which NOTHING in Blizzard's cash shop does that. Literally fucking nothing. So yeah, it's very fucking annoying that you don't even understand the basic argument going on, yet feel the need to reply stating incorrect facts repeatedly.
    Factually speaking, I am using cash to buy gold to buy power.

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