Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[Mysterymask]

You are conveniently failing to mention that it was considered cheating at the time, unless you had managed to farm all that gold yourself. Which was quite hard for any non-AH goblin before WoD and its money printing machines.

Except it was done in droves by the shady third party sites sad fact is the supply and demand are going to be there no matter what. Difference is

1. Safer lil Timmy isn't getting his identity stolen or scammed cause he wanted to buy gold

2. Better for Blizz (money goes to them)

3. Better for players allows them to literally go F2P if they so choose

The big issue is the trade chat and group finder spam....

[rhorle]

Anything in wow is technically purchaseable, so it is inherently pay to win. To claim that the token is not directly winning, and therefore the game isnt pay to win, seems a bit contrived. The price for the cutting edge level of boosts is obscene, and I dont think a relevant percentage of the playerbase makes use of it, but it exists regardless.

It is no more pay to win then Auction runs were. Where a group would get a bunch of clients and then auction of drops/boe's and split the profits. These all happened pre-token as well. I am sure they happened prior to WotLK but that is the expansion where I remember hearing about a few of them on my server. There has always been people with gold who would leverage it for advantages.

Gold can be used for many things in the game that give advantages (flask, feasts, gems, enchants, etc) or no advantages. Buying the gold for real money from another player does not make the game pay to win. The gold, and the advantages, are still coming directly from players and supplied only by players. If a player doesn't offer the service then no amount of buying tokens will give you any power.

The opposite is true as well. No amount of buying tokens will get you gold if a player has no already earned that gold in-game. You pay real money for the opportunity that inherently exists with gold.

[Lochton]

You are conveniently failing to mention that it was considered cheating at the time, unless you had managed to farm all that gold yourself. Which was quite hard for any non-AH goblin before WoD and its money printing machines.

Gold was not an issue after mid Wrath to get, even without using the auction (though, auction made it go MUCH faster). Going forward from that, the amount of gold you could earn just kept going up, and up, and up.

And if you were smart enough, then gold was not really an issue to get through the auction during Vanilla and TBC either.

The prices for a full raid boost before the token weren't that insanely high either.

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Except it was done in droves by the shady third party sites sad fact is the supply and demand are going to be there no matter what. Difference is

1. Safer lil Timmy isn't getting his identity stolen or scammed cause he wanted to buy gold

2. Better for Blizz (money goes to them)

3. Better for players allows them to literally go F2P if they so choose

The big issue is the trade chat and group finder spam....

You forgot to add that someone else is getting game-time for buying the token.

And the big issue without the token would still be massive trade chat, and most likely, LFG spam of goldsellers.

Nowadays, most I see now are the rare moments of goldsellers sliding in gold selling calendar invites or sending letters in your mail, before the token, it was a daily sight to see gold sellers.

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It is no more pay to win then Auction runs were. Where a group would get a bunch of clients and then auction of drops/boe's and split the profits. These all happened pre-token as well. I am sure they happened prior to WotLK but that is the expansion where I remember hearing about a few of them on my server. There has always been people with gold who would leverage it for advantages.

Gold can be used for many things in the game that give advantages (flask, feasts, gems, enchants, etc) or no advantages. Buying the gold for real money from another player does not make the game pay to win. The gold, and the advantages, are still coming directly from players and supplied only by players. If a player doesn't offer the service then no amount of buying tokens will give you any power.

The opposite is true as well. No amount of buying tokens will get you gold if a player has no already earned that gold in-game. You pay real money for the opportunity that inherently exists with gold.

Oh lord, auction runs have always sound so low and scammy to me.

I've been a raider through the majority of WoW's tiers, and the groups I've been in have been requested to run auction runs or boosting, and we've declined for our own sanity, protection, and interest.

[Theangryone]

What are you winning with a boost? Nothing. People only get mad when it’s tied to the token and store, which was a response to all the gold sellers. No one gets made when Limit and the rest are borrowing tons of gold to buy boes off the ah to try and get world first. Buy the gold, borrow the gold. Same thing as buying carries. You could buy your way to the best gear in the game and still not “win” if you suck at it.

The cosmetic shop in New World is not pay to win either. I can’t fathom how people think an mmo is going to pay for continued development time after release with no sub or shop. Don’t want to look pretty in your armor then don’t buy stuff from the store.

[paralleluniverse]

Yes, WoW Token = buy gold for real money = P2W.

[Lochton]

What are you winning with a boost? Nothing. People only get mad when it’s tied to the token and store, which was a response to all the gold sellers. No one gets made when Limit and the rest are borrowing tons of gold to buy boes off the ah to try and get world first. Buy the gold, borrow the gold. Same thing as buying carries. You could buy your way to the best gear in the game and still not “win” if you suck at it.

The cosmetic shop in New World is not pay to win either. I can’t fathom how people think an mmo is going to pay for continued development time after release with no sub or shop. Don’t want to look pretty in your armor then don’t buy stuff from the store.

Well. This is a development of people's view of what 'winning' is.

And some believe, saving time, is winning.

Yes, WoW Token = buy gold for real money = P2W.

So, the token is just another part of P2W, and we've had P2W indirectly (and legal) from Blizzard's side since October 2006.

[MrFawlty]

Gold was not an issue after mid Wrath to get, even without using the auction (though, auction made it go MUCH faster). Going forward from that, the amount of gold you could earn just kept going up, and up, and up.

Gold was not an issue yet its a significant enough issue for people to pay real money for it. A non sensical argument.

Anything in game can now be bought providing Blizzard get their cut. Tokens are cheating, cause a conflict of interest and in game inflation.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Your do realize that this is literally what you can do right now, yes? Cranted, it's not instant, but full hc clear in 60 min is possible.

Then it's not literally then, is it?

I mean you buy token take to booster get CE... sure it might be a dozen tokens but its the same effect. Understanding that just because something has a single degree of separation is still related isn't exactly some massive feat of deductive reasoning...

Yeah, I get it. As does everybody else for the 100th time this thread has been started. Still not pay 2 win though.
47 pages, my dear Watson. The only massive feats of reasoning here is 47 pages of people incessantly trying to navigate their mental hurdles.

[Lochton]

Gold was not an issue yet its a significant enough issue for people to pay real money for it. A non sensical argument.

Anything in game can now be bought providing Blizzard get their cut. Tokens are cheating, cause a conflict of interest and in game inflation.

Because people always need more or want more. A common reaction in games.

And we're back at, if the tokens are cheating, then P2W has been existing since TCG was added.

Boost prices exploded because of the token. P2W was no longer exclusive to people gambling.

[Crimson Spears]

Then it's not literally then, is it?





Yeah, I get it. As does everybody else for the 100th time this thread has been started. Still not pay 2 win though.
47 pages, my dear Watson. The only massive feats of reasoning here is 47 pages of people incessantly trying to navigate their mental hurdles.

Rationalization is a hell of a drug I guess... you can conceptualize spending real money then buying a currency then buying a service with that token but you can rationalize its not actually that because you find it repellent is my guess?

If only you were a ork in warhammer 40k. You would be a one ork walking tech tree.

[Kaver]

No.
This is not a question of opinion. It's simply pay to win, or not pay and win. There is absolutely no inbetween.

Lol.

The win criteria for a pvp player is different from the win criteria of a raider.

For me winning in WoW is getting CE and I can get that with real money. So for me WoW is pay to win.

[MrFawlty]

Because people always need more or want more. A common reaction in games.

And we're back at, if the tokens are cheating, then P2W has been existing since TCG was added.

Boost prices exploded because of the token. P2W was no longer exclusive to people gambling.

So it is cheating, causes a conflict of interest and inflation.

[Lolites]

Tokens are cheating, cause a conflict of interest and in game inflation.

tokens did not create inflation... the dont MAKE gold, they only move it around, which was happening before token anyway...

garrisons created huge inflation, bcs people could MAKE tons of gold out of nothing, for few minutes of time instead of hours of farming,

[Schizoide]

Correct, tokens have no inflationary effect at all. Doesn't mean selling them isn't P2W, but they don't impact the economy.

[rhorle]

Correct, tokens have no inflationary effect at all. Doesn't mean selling them isn't P2W, but they don't impact the economy.

Doesn't that just mean that WoW is trade to win? Because you can trade for services even with out paying real money. The gold and services all come from the same source. The players.

[vian]

Buying currency to buy boosts, I guess that's p2w. In the modern era.

[rhorle]

And those players demand gold for Raid entrance, clearance and even drops. They charge a lot of gold that they later use for Account Balance + Game Time + Game Store items. WoW is a big P2W game.

So a microtransaction. Game time or Blizzard Dollars doesn't let you win at anything. Buying gold with a token just gets you gold. You don't automatically get a boost. You don't automatically get loot. Some players have always demanded gold, or other, restrictions prior to being invited to raids. Prior to personal loot players created elaborate systems to "buy" loot during a raid run. EPGP, DKP, Loot councils, Auction runs.

That would mean that WoW has always been pay to win and not something that started with the token right? Because the token didn't give anything new in that regards.

[beanman12345]

You can use money to buy gold to get full boosts and best gear in game. You aren't buying it off a vendor like some other P2W mmo's and therefore the gear you get would be random from the pool available, but yeah I can easily see the argument it's P2W.

[rhorle]

So, paying tons of money (From WoW tokens and turned into gold) to enter a raid, get armor/weapons, then do the endgame content easily with that equipment, then repeat the process but now for PVP. Start winning PvP games, because your paid weapons/armor (Brought by Gold/Money) while people are not able to even harm you is not P2W?.....Are you sure is not?

You aren't using real money to win though. You are using gold. All of what you describe is possible by simply playing the Auction House or other means of earning gold. Or if you still have a large stock pile from WoD and Legion. Look at the AH mount. Do you really think most people used tokens to buy that? That they paid thousands of dollars for the mount?

Gold allows you to do all sorts of things in the game. The token just takes gold that someone earned and gives it to you. If no one one offers up their gold there is no way for you to trade your money for gold. A player supplied service with player supplied gold is not pay to win. It is just using the game systems as they were designed. To trade gold for stuff.

[Temp name]

And those players demand gold for Raid entrance, clearance and even drops. They charge a lot of gold that they later use for Account Balance + Game Time + Game Store items.

WoW is a big P2W game.

But what does paying RL money get you that someone who doesn't can't get?
Because gold is available to earn in-game, you don't need token for it